Interesting article about skill mastery and Nature vs Nurture

[blackbird]

Hi all,

As someone with a young child, I find this type of thing interesting. Since it also corresponds with some of the discussion in Jacob's book, I thought it may be of interest to you all as well.

http://chronicle.com/article/Bringing-Up-Genius/234061

Happy Holidays!

- blackbird

[jennypenny]

@Blackbird--Anders Ericsson is the guest on James Altucher's podcast this week. The topic is mastery and there's a discussion about Laszlo Polgar and his daughters. The whole podcast is pretty interesting.

[Dragline]

It's funny how they "do the rounds" when they have a new book out.

Anders was also recently interviewed on Michael Covel's show (which always seems to have little to do with its purported subject matter): http://trendfollowingradio.com/ Scroll down to Episode 437.

On raising kids to actually see how they can "unstick" their natures and mold themselves to be what they want through effort and perserverance, I would go with Carol Dweck's "Mindset". It stresses the importance of affirming with statements like "You worked really hard on that/you have really become good at that" (nurture) and avoiding ones like "You are smart/pretty/gifted" (nature).

[FBeyer]

It's funny how they "do the rounds" when they have a new book out.

Anders was also recently interviewed on Michael Covel's show (which always seems to have little to do with its purported subject matter): http://trendfollowingradio.com/ Scroll down to Episode 437.

On raising kids to actually see how they can "unstick" their natures and mold themselves to be what they want through effort and perserverance, I would go with Carol Dweck's "Mindset". It stresses the importance of affirming with statements like "You worked really hard on that/you have really become good at that" (nurture) and avoiding ones like "You are smart/pretty/gifted" (nature).

Mindset was a couple of hundred pages of very much the same. It's one of those books where you can read the first and last chapter and then not miss much.

The premise is sound though, but there is not a lot to say about it really.
This graphs in this link sums up the book nicely:
https://thecriticalthinkingandexaminedl ... -children/

I have tried to adopt the idea into my daughter's upbringing though; the idea is to avoid any kind of label. That includes, you are a hard worker. That's a label to be shameful of too, when some day she's stressed out and stops being a hard worker.
You are smart, you work hard, you look pretty... all that stuff people tell little girls ( don't get me started on ONLY complimenting little girls when they wear pink skirts, but not blue t-shirts with monsters on them ).

By now she's learned the mantra:
What do we do when something is difficult? We just practice some more.

[Dragline]

The premise is sound though, but there is not a lot to say about it really.
This graphs in this link sums up the book nicely:
https://thecriticalthinkingandexaminedl ... -children/

I have tried to adopt the idea into my daughter's upbringing though; the idea is to avoid any kind of label. That includes, you are a hard worker. That's a label to be shameful of too, when some day she's stressed out and stops being a hard worker.
You are smart, you work hard, you look pretty... all that stuff people tell little girls ( don't get me started on ONLY complimenting little girls when they wear pink skirts, but not blue t-shirts with monsters on them ).

By now she's learned the mantra:
What do we do when something is difficult? We just practice some more.

Yes, that's a nice summary.

As that thinker statue implies, its actually an ancient idea -- that what matters intrinsically is actually the effort and not necessarily the result. See also "Dead Poets Society."

Our modern obsession with "results"/"success" was actually the minority view until the 20th Century.

After they "get" the growth/effort lesson, the more nuanced one to teach is the probablistic nature of life -- that is, often the best efforts do not result in winning "THE prize", but repeated efforts usually in winning "A prize" that may not even be known when the effort is commenced. It's a variation of the 80/20 rule also captured in the "parable of the sower" and fractal mathematics.

[FBeyer]

...often the best efforts do not result in winning "THE prize", but repeated efforts usually in winning "A prize"...

Chain that observation with Daily Gratitude and you might have the framework for a functioning philosophy

[Dragline]

You know, its already been compiled (circa 1981): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2XrD6VbF_k

What I find interesting about this is that its consistent with the complexity theory that you'll find in something like Mark Buchanan's "Ubiquity" (summary here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR9JeEHDg8M) or Mandelbrot's "Misbehavior of Markets" (summary here: http://users.math.yale.edu/users/mandel ... stract.pdf)

[pukingRainbows]

Dragline wrote:
It's a variation of the 80/20 rule also captured in the "parable of the sower" and fractal mathematics.

Would you care to explain that idea a little bit? I think I can see the connection to the parable of the sower, but not the connection to fractal mathematics.

[Dragline]

Dragline wrote:
It's a variation of the 80/20 rule also captured in the "parable of the sower" and fractal mathematics.

Would you care to explain that idea a little bit? I think I can see the connection to the parable of the sower, but not the connection to fractal mathematics.

The parable of the sower is an example of the 80/20 rule, which mathematically is a power-law. Most of the sowers seed will yield nothing. A minority of it will yield a lot. Power-law distributions and fractal mathematics are intertwined. This is how Nassim Taleb used Mandelbrot's math to become rich trading options.

Look at this and watch the video at the bottom:
http://www.prospectingmimeticfractals.c ... -lens.html

The gross and short-hand way to think about this is that a 3-dimensional fractal reality looks likes a power law in two dimensions.

Proabalistically, its point number 6 of the Rohn video that's most important to remember -- sometimes, even with best efforts, the effort is a failure. It's only in the repetition of effort that success is achieved and the big successes have a randomized factor to them in accordance with a power-law distribution.

[pukingRainbows]

Thanks Dragline.

3-dimensional fractal reality looks like a power law in two dimensions...

I'm still trying to understand this.

I love that this evolved from essentially a child rearing discussion to one about complex systems.

I'm going to have to read "How Nature Works" now.

[Dragline]

Thanks Dragline.

3-dimensional fractal reality looks like a power law in two dimensions...

I'm still trying to understand this.

I love that this evolved from essentially a child rearing discussion to one about complex systems.

I'm going to have to read "How Nature Works" now.

This might help -- watch the second video in particular: http://www.prospectingmimeticfractals.c ... c-fractals

It describes multi-dimensional biological systems and societies, but if you reduce the complexity to just one factor, say to just the distribution of wealth and the length of roadways in his cities examples, and graph it, you will usually get a power-law (hockey stick-like) distribution.