dating ERE

Meetups, joint projects, classifieds, dating, exchanges, buying, selling, etc.
JohnnyH
Posts: 2005
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Rockies

Post by JohnnyH »

I think OKC is actually pretty interesting, and their algorithm is not total nonsense... I had a "date" with a 20% match that hilariously proved that. Did it again to confirm, which it did.
I've had 3 dates over 80% and all were enjoyable. Have yet to meet a 90 because my rural isolation, there are only 4 F ages 22-36 within 25 miles of me :|
Was amused for a while, but I'm so focused on ERE I'd rather work towards that than drive 100m for a date and $10-100 date... OKC seems pretty great in the bigger cities, however.


zarathustra
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: VEGAS, BABY

Post by zarathustra »

I've used OK Cupid many times (and am now) and I also find the algorithms pretty accurate. However, they cannot provide the X factor - chemistry.
I'm pretty selective about responses (girls notoriously get a billion emails) and depending on my mood (i typically would prefer a book/being alone at home to dealing with first dates) I will give somebody a shot. I've never had a bad first date from OKC but I also have not found someone that gives me "that" feeling . . . yet. i won't sacrifice my alone-time/freedom for a relationship with someone unless something about our interactions/chemistry makes me feel like trying to find a balance. :)


Emanuel
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:04 pm

Post by Emanuel »

Dating websites are so depressing, I can't use them more then 5 min without feeling that I'm wasting my life away, then I'm of to porn and all is good again.


Emanuel
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:04 pm

Post by Emanuel »

Now we are talking.. you're my kind of guy.


User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6853
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Post by jennypenny »

I made this suggestion to Spartan_Warrior a couple of weeks ago, but I was on the site today and thought maybe I should post it here.
A good place to meet people is a race like this:

http://toughmudder.com/

If you aren't that into fitness you can volunteer and still meet people and attend the after parties.
Similar events can be found on this post by Code Name Insight:

http://codenameinsight.blogspot.com/201 ... -2012.html


dragoncar
Posts: 1316
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:17 pm

Post by dragoncar »

"I'm not going to pay to climb your ladder." - dragoncar, 2010.


TylerOSU
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:29 am
Location: portland oregon

Post by TylerOSU »

I'm divorced!
It sucks too becuase she was onboard with a lot of ERE stuff, though she was never oen to really read much into these things(literally, she didn't read much due to it bugging her eyes/brain ailments).
But anyways,
Male

30

Portland(Oregon City to be exact) Oregon.
I've been ttrying to sync up with more frugal/minmalist crowds around PDX, like the whole freegan/Occupy/vegan crowd, kinda hit and miss so far as you expect.
As long as I'm in th eballpark of people I'm cool, i def don't want materalistic shopaholic types.
Btw OKCUPID is pretty money I have to say, trust and it shall deliver the goods!
I'm downshifting even more lately(finally kicking expensive gaming addiction eghads!!!) and so that will help even more. Get rid of the dissonance and start synergizing with your thoughts/actions/habits.
text/email me if you are in the area we can brainstorm more frugal adventures!
Tyler

503-302-4202


Noob
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:00 pm

Post by Noob »

Here's something I was discussing with my friends. Because I'm single and they are always trying to hook me up with women. My thing is I have to usually lie at first on what i do for a living. One of my friends suggested I buy a burger king uniform and leave it lying around somewhere. And for overnight guests get up early and put it on to get them out the door. Because I'm going to be retiring soon does not mean that my SO will be retiring also. I mean does it sound incredibly selfish to say that I want to retire but that I'm afraid to settle down with anyone because I've had too many gold diggers in my life? I don't want anyone thinking they are getting a free ride out of all of my hard work. I busted my hump for sometimes up to 20hours a day to get to ER. I mean at first you're good. Hanging out and doing whatnot. Then let's say you get to the point where she/he moves in. Now by this time I'm assuming they know you really don't work. So my past experiences have shown me that they will now want to stop working to sit around and leech off of me. Why is it that people think that just because one person makes a butt load of money that the other can just sit around and do nothing? It befuddles me. My other tactic will be to have toys all over my house so that when we wake up in the morning they think I'm just a big kid and not mature. Figure that should get them moving. Like most of you, I'd really like to find someone and get remarried and settle down for the long haul with someone I share many things in common with. However, history in my life has dictated to me that this is not possible. I've found that this is a trait most common with younger American women. Mostly my age. late 20's to mid 30's women in America have no respect for men, they think that men are nothing more than sperm donors and an extra income. I've tried the online dating thing and the women in this age group take their pictures with a mess in the background, usually in sweatpants or in a bar with 10 dudes hanging on them. I mean do women really think that is attractive? The best ones are the pics in lingerie with the opening line talking about they are not sex objects and are not easy. Is there some kind of screwed up Freudian philosophy that I missed somewhere along the way that makes them do this? It's just sad that i have to start every relationship off by lying so to keep away the gold diggers. American women have a lot to do if they want to keep American men at home. Please don't confuse these words as meaning I want someone to wait on me hand and foot. But I'm just saying in MY experience American women don't know what LOVE is. They don't seem to care either. I've got countless stories of starting to talk with women and then all of a sudden it turns into.. So... if you want to have sex with me I need my phone bill, electric bill, and .. I'm like.. WHOA!!!! Who said anything about sex?? If I wanted sex that bad that I needed to pay for it I'd book myself a flight to a country where prostitution is legal and do it that way. So if any of you are finding normal women that are not gold diggers, I'd be interested to know where you're finding them. Cause so far; the internet, my friends, and local hangouts are not working.


Spartan_Warrior
Posts: 1659
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Just to follow up and give my complaints in this thread a happy ending, I did eventually find success with OKCupid--success meaning I was easily getting numbers from most conversations and dating several different girls--and am now in a relationship with one of them.
@Noob: I actually strongly agree with most of your sentiments. I especially lol'd at the reference to the girls with bikini ass pics who "demand not to be treated like a piece of meat"--I think we've all seen that one before.
I'm by no means a lothario but since I did find some success perhaps I'll post my (online) dating tips later when I have the time. I don't want to give out my entire OKCupid profile in case I have to return to it one day but I do have some specific suggestions that really made a big difference in my response rate and the quality of my selection. Of course YMMV.
I will also say it's incredibly refreshing when you do find that 1 in a million partner who doesn't fit those stereotypes...


Noob
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:00 pm

Post by Noob »

That's awesome Spartan. I guess after rereading my post it seems as if I'm coming off as antiwoman. I'm not. I've found happiness many times since I've been divorced. But every single one of them has been from a different country. I've tried relationships with American women and some of them start out really great. And then everything turns into a money issue sooner or later. They want to share money or they want me to pay their bills, or they want in my will. I mean if you want money, go ask your parents. I've got my own kids to pay for. But I started using a few websites that are only for people that make over a certain dollar amount. You have to send them a copy of your paystub before they'll let you become a member. So I can search for women that have money as well and it's more balanced. There are a few that make it through the cracks still, but for the most part I find that when money is never going to be an issue between two people it makes things easier. Even on the flip side. Two people that don't have money that are good at saving money like a lot of people here, it makes life more enjoyable when money is not a concern.


Spartan_Warrior
Posts: 1659
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Okay, here's the concise Spartan Guide to success on OKCupid. I'll start with the general and move into more specifics.
1. Forget about "Game" (aka be yourself)
I think this is fairly universal, actually. The idea behind the "Pickup Artistry" movement is essentially that you need to adopt a certain personality (typically a cocky and misogynistic one) in order to be attractive. I've found this to be flat out wrong in all regards. Forget all that crap. There are two effective take-aways from "Game" and these are: confidence, and what's known as "demonstrations of higher value" which is essentially PUA code for displaying social status.
Confidence is fairly obvious so I won't belabor it, but the "DHVs" is the one thing I've found to be very clever in the PUA movement. Long story short, this essentially involves dropping keywords that demonstrate that you are "high in the pecking order". In practice this means casually mentioning an accomplishment or something you're proud of. Something that sets you apart from the crowd. But the key is to make it look like you're NOT trying to brag or show higher value. You have to say it without saying it, between the lines as it were. More on specific applications of this to come.
2. Embrace "Game Theory" (aka have reasonable standards)
Again, this is more universal. See this clip from "A Beautiful Mind": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CemLiSI5ox8
(Or, for the more amusing/lyrical version, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkoMbxHQ ... r_embedded )
This one's simple. There are only so many 7/10s and up (that is, really pretty people). These are the girls that everyone is going for--in fact, the ones that everyone has been going for since they grew boobs--which means they will also be the hardest to get, and they know it. The same idea, that there are limited numbers of very attractive people, applies to men. IMO, it's true that women are slightly less shallow than men--but the emphasis is on the "slightly". I'm not going to belabor this point but the simple fact is you will have much better success by internally acknowledging where you stand in terms of attractiveness and pursuing those within a notch or two of yourself. Nobody likes to hear this but it is common sense.
(I will further add that really attractive girls on dating sites just don't belong there. Again, these girls can walk down the street and pick from any number of guys salivating over them. If you spot a girl like this on a dating site it's more than likely she's a troll account, an attention whore, or in some way really defective. Truth hurts.)
Now, again, there is more to attractiveness than mere physical appearance, for both men and women. This is where confidence and status come into play.
3. Make a good profile
This is where I have some more specific suggestions. When I started out on OKCupid, I filled out all the profile sections with very brief, witty responses, and answered about 100 of the matching questions, so as not to appear like I was taking it to seriously. In other words I did what 99% of guys on the site do.
My breakthrough came when I decided to create a female account just to see what the competition was like. Answer: a sea of identical guys all doing the exact same thing.
So I decided to switch it up and demonstrate more of my personality in my profile. I ignored several of the extraneous profile sections ("6 things you could never do without", I mean seriously?) and instead wrote a rather long, detailed "About Me" section. My account is now disabled so I can't reference, but the template was something like this:
"Witty introduction" - A few sentences or paragraphs that introduced me and my sense of humor. This could be a joke e.g. "I've heard girls like guys who are either funny or dangerous, so whenever I tell a joke and a girl doesn't laugh, I stab her." (Just throwing it out there, you get the idea.)
"Flipping the script" - I then went on to describe how dating profiles are like late night infomercials ("But wait! Order now and you'll also receive my six pack abs and gourmet cooking skills at no charge" or something like that) in that everyone pretends they're these perfect little products and no one wants to talk about their faults, even though NO ONE is perfect. So how about we do something different for a change and I open up to tell you some of my faults?
"Demonstrations of higher value in disguise" - Then I thought of the old job interview question, "What's your greatest weakness?" and the stereotypical response of, "Well, I just work too darn hard!" There's a fine line here. I mixed in a few innocuous/funny weaknesses (e.g. "I live alone and don't always leave the seat down; deal with it") that doubled as demonstrations of high value (in that example it's saying I don't have roommates or, even worse, live with parents). I also confessed I can be long-winded, and that it is deliberate--"because I figure if you can't read a profile that barely fills two pages, you probably don't have the intellectual faculties required to read a novel". Again, a subtle way of putting you at a higher value than the reader which makes them intrigued by you.
In the "Most private thing you're willing to admit" I actually said straight up that I have and am acting on a plan to retire within 10 years so I can focus on things that really matter, like writing, family, travel, etc.
Somewhere in there I also mentioned that, "while I could walk up to strangers in a bar and proposition them", I liked online dating because it allows you to preview their personality before meeting (which clears up the underlying and status-devaluing question of what you're doing with online dating in the first place) and also that I had dated a lot of cool, fun, attractive people through OKCupid already (it certainly wasn't true when I wrote it but it became true afterwards--again, demonstration of value).
4. Conversations
Pretty much the same thing here. Be yourself and don't be afraid to write a little more than you might think is "standard". You don't want to be "standard". You certainly don't want to just say "hey" or "you're sexy" or anything even remotely like that as this comprises 99% of the messages girls get and is easily ignored. The number one thing I can say is never copy and paste the same pickup line. It's easy to tell. What I did instead is set up a basic formula of introducing myself with a joke or something, picking up one or two things from their profile to talk about, and asking an open-ended question or two. The conversation should flow organically from there. I never visited profiles for more subject fodder after the initial conversation got flowing, but if it got stuck I had some standard questions I'd throw in, e.g. "Do you prefer Chinese or Italian food? What's the last book you read? How many Cheetos can you fit in your mouth?"
5. Profile pics
Generally you need more than one, and at least one of you at your most attractive--but not trying too hard to look that way. My main pic was a standard "mirror pic" with my hair done nicely, wearing work clothes and contacts, and with a nice smile. Other pics were me doing stuff outdoors or with other people and animals, again, demonstrating value. I would NOT recommend shirtless pics or the like unless they are at the beach.
This is becoming long-winded already so I think I'll cut it short here. Feel free to use some of these suggestions, but of course, the most important take away is to make it your own and be yourself (merely the best version of yourself). Like I said, when I revamped my profile with these things in mind, the difference was huge. I was even getting contacted by girls for a change and in fact my current girlfriend contacted me first.


dragoncar
Posts: 1316
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:17 pm

Post by dragoncar »

Good tips, Spartan. For some reason I had way more success with OKCupid in the past (not sure if it was because I was younger, in a different locale, etc.)
Although I don't completely agree with Noob, I do worry about how my ERE plans would fit with marriage. Would my wife-to-be really be cool with keeping her job while I screw around all day, contributing half of our expenses from my SWR? How on earth do you screen for this... and at what point in a relationship do you bring it up?
Ideally, I'd marry a high-income sugar-momma. :-P


User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6853
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Post by jennypenny »

I hate to generalize, but I want to make two points about women.
1. What you're looking for is not specifically openness to your ideas about ERE but respect for each other's ideas in general. It's not all about money. Find someone who will respect your interests and goals, and subsequently compromise to make sure you both achieve your life goals. (obviously the closer your goals are, the easier it is)
2. I think many women are looking for security, and see money as a means to it. In fairness, many women are raised to view money as the ultimate source of security. When explaining the ERE lifestyle, focus on the security it brings--freedom from job losses, ability to maintain property, some freedom from stock market issues, etc. Sometimes women don't, or won't, articulate that need (it makes a woman sound weak), but I think it's hardwired into us on some level.


zarathustra
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: VEGAS, BABY

Post by zarathustra »

high-income sugar-momma here.
anyone here subscribe to the Harry Browne view on relationships? (from "How I found freedom in an unfree world")
if you aren't aware, it's basically the philosophy that monogamy or labels/commitment is irrelevant because ideally you should be always open and looking for your best fit. there is no reason to bind someone down to you if you are truly looking for a best fit.
if you fit well, you stay together. if you don't, you will eventually find someone who fits with you better. i don't need someone or a relationship to cling to for happiness or meaning, so if it's not mutually beneficial then it's a waste of time and limiting freedom by remaining in a relationship because of a label or commitment that just isn't a positive one any longer.
i have decided this jives incredibly well with me and plan on beginning to implement this.
anyone do this? men . . . how do i present this and when and how do you think this would fly?


zarathustra
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: VEGAS, BABY

Post by zarathustra »

and, btw, he is also a big advocate of keeping possessions and expenses and money completely separate (for those of you worried about gold diggers or whatnot). i think there is a lot of wisdom in that.


LiquidSapphire
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm

Post by LiquidSapphire »

@sw - truth! Nice work. I concur that all men's profiles with few exceptions are nearly identical and boooooring... Everyone lists "air" as something they can't live without...zzz... And everyone likes hanging out with their friends on Friday night. Shocking. My current bf caught my eye because he talked about these fun little projects he was building in his garage like a homemade sous vide cooker, one of those wake up lights that gradually get brighter over time, etc... It was very endearing in a mad professor kind of way but authentic also. It intrigued me enough to want to know more. He was very sincere in messages too. Props to an excellent guide.
At Zara- I read the book about a year ago, I remember learning that after he wrote the book totally bashing marriage he did in fact meet someone who knocked his socks off and married her. Not sure if that changes your mind about him or not. He also agreed to zero contact with his daughter to get the divorce (1st wife) over with... Justified in a very callous way I thought, saying something like "Yeah, I loved her but you know, I got over it.". I liked the book and the ideas but these things give me pause.


dragoncar
Posts: 1316
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:17 pm

Post by dragoncar »

Zarathustra - You are in the bay area, right? Want to be my sugar momma? So... if you want to have sex with me I need my phone bill, electric bill, and ..
Seriously the only problem with the approach you suggest is that it severely limits the dating pool. If you accept that most people in this country are conditioned to expect certain relationship criteria, you gain the opportunity to find someone who is otherwise perfect for you and convince them (or help them grow into) understanding of ERE.


RealPerson
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:33 pm

Post by RealPerson »

I also read Harry Browne's book on freedom. Had a lot of great concepts in it and I loved it. When I got to the "divorce your present spouse so you can be in a free and open relationship" piece, he lost me. That is really a crazy idea, but still, I liked large parts of the book.
Zarathustra: I think a lot of guys would love your idea. The old-fashioned concept of a marriage with joined finances etc dates from an era gone by. You can easily forego marriage. No marriage, split finances.... seems straightforward to me. What is the big deal? Are you finding clingy guys who insist on sharing in your wealth? Man, things really are different in California! I always thought it was the woman who wanted commitment.
Things get a little more complicated if kids enter into the picture. Regardless of whether you are married or not, kids do create a lasting bond between the parents. You can't escape it, because it's just plain biology. Still, marriage is not a requirement. And if it is all about a good time with few shared responsibilities, then keeping everything separate seems perfectly normal.


Noob
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:00 pm

Post by Noob »

SpartanWarrior.. Excellent post! A few of those ideas I already have based on a few women that I've talked with. I actually for ideas, just messaged a few of the really attractive troll type accounts you mention and was kind of rude/funny with them and got to talking, figured out that we'd never work out and I just ask them questions about what to change. BUT, some of your other ideas I just about spit my coffee all over my computer! I laughed and I laughed. It's funny, but true.
@Zarathustra.. I have never read this book, but it sounds.. interesting.. to say the least. I know people that live like this and they never seem happy. I am okay with the fact that I'd rather die single than live in another unhappy marriage. My first marriage was horrible. She admitted to me after a few years of being divorced that she only married me because she saw me as a way out of a dead end situation for her. And life was just miserable after "the honeymoon effect" was over. But yes.. we just weren't compatible.
@LiquidSapphire.. Schwartzenneger's wife also wrote a bunch of books on how to have the perfect marriage and ole dude was having babies with other women. So there are sometimes that someone has some really good ideas that need to be wrote down and sold.. but their lives themselves just aren't up to par.
I can see at least what I read on posts here that the women involved in ERE are a different kind. Everyone is concerned with money. I don't care how rich or poor you are. But, it seems to me that from what I've been reading on here that ERE women seem to be okay with putting it back and going with the flow. I know this is a generalization and women hate to be generalized. Just really seems that ERE women are not typical American women. I can honestly say that other than getting used to different ways.. That I've never had a bad experience dating a woman from a foreign country though. I don’t know if its like someone put already that it’s on how women are raised here, but if that’s true, then that is messed up. I grew up poor, so I know what it’s like to not have food on the table. And yeah I’ve been through my stages where I’ve blown every cent I made on something stupid. But on the flip side of that.. My children have enjoyed both lifestyles already. When my kids were little my wife and I would have to take turns eating because we didn’t have enough food for all of us. So we fed the kids and ate what was left over. And all we ever really had money for was enough for flour and water. Maybe a little meat. With the addition of a little sugar that I’d borrow from the neighbors, you can make all kinds of things with just flour and water. So my kids should hopefully never fall into the category that I’ve described.

But on the subject of how to approach people. I’ve seen where people put in their profile that they want a good, nice, honest man. I’ve experimented and proved that those women, the trick is to be ignorant to them. Talk to them like they are a piece of meat. AND THEY LIKE IT!!! There are certain keywords you can pick up in any profile that usually dictate how to talk to them. Another thing I’ve learned is that.. There is no “being yourself” when dating someone until AFTER you get through the first few dates/emails. I’ve had a few women tell me in email response that I could say something more catchy.. I always tell them.. Lookit, if you want fancy pickup lines, go to a bar. Men on dating sites are usually here because we either; A)Don’t want to pickup women in bars, or B)Don’t know how to talk to women. So therefore if they want those men that can be comfortable using fancy opening lines, then they should just keep on moving because MY life revolves around working and my family, not around thinking up what I can say that will trick some woman into wanting to talk with me.

I keep coming across as a woman hater I know.. but it’s not that.. And I also understand that as men we all do certain things that are ingrained in us as well, I just can’t really banter on about that, because I don’t date men. Nothing against it, just not my thing.

I can say this for any woman looking for a man’s point of view.
#1, if you have kids, that is wonderful. But don’t put pictures of your kids on your dating profile. As a parent, this shows no logic or reasoning for me. Why would you want total strangers knowing what your kids look like? Maybe that’s just my old military mindset coming out.
#2, if you have kids we all understand that you love them. There is no need to put nothing in your About Me section about you and only fill it up with information on how much you love your kids. That tells me that you will never love me and only want me to add some additional income to your household(again, this is from my experience and holds to be true thus far).
#3, please stop putting sleazy pictures in your profiles. This includes, but is not limited to; lingerie shots, bikini shots, ass in the mirror shots, down the shirt shots, in your sweatpants shots, clutter all over the background in your shots, smoking and drinking pics(I’m a smoker and this just shows no class to post pics like this), pics where you have to photo edit your old boyfriend out(I think the psychology behind this will say something about not being able to let go yet), pics of you with more than 1 guy hanging on you(unless you put a caption that they are all family, because otherwise it portrays the wrong image).
#4 I like to see nice pictures. Everyone has been in a wedding at least once in recent years USUALLY. Put a pic of you all dressed up for it. If you’re a church goer, take a pic before going to church after you get all gussied up. The self pics in the mirror are okay, just do it tastefully.
#5 Don’t go on a 30 page tirade about what makes you mad that people do to you. If that’s your thing hit a few quick things and leave it alone. I’ve seen profiles that go on for pages talking about what NOT to do, and then 1 or 2 sentences of what they like.
#6 Don’t LIE!!! This is a big one. Just yesterday I had this really attractive woman message me, but her section on what she was looking for she put that she wanted a good Xian man. I’m an atheist. So I politely told her that I didn’t think things would work between us. I told her why also. The response I got was that she only put that there cause her friend told her it would help weed out the guys that were only looking for sex. Well, not only did it do that, but it also showed me that she can’t be trusted.
#7 This is also a big one. I have only had this happen to me 2 times. But some women are just really good with lighting and camera angles. They can take pictures that are really them, but look absolutely nothing like them. Like SW said, try to date within your range. I guess I’m about average. My ex wife tells me I’m about a 6. So I’m trying to figure out what this 10 is doing messaging me. After about a dozen emails through the site she adds me to her FB. Now here I am with full access to her personal pics. AND NOT ONE of them looks like the pics on her profile. I had a few guys at work double check me. They all said they resemble her enough to be her and not fakes, but that she goes from a 10 in the one album, to a 3 in the other. That’s some darn good camera angles.
#8. To add on to what I just put in #7 and to trail on what SW says.. We all have to admit to ourselves what level on the scale we are. BUT, I don’t care how shallow people think it is. There is nobody in this world that can be with someone that they don’t think is attractive. It’s impossible. You may personally think your friends S.O. is unattractive but they don’t. You have to get past the vanity first before you can really set in on the personality. If you can’t do that then you’ll be living a lie forever. So EVERYONE is vain to a point. Don’t lie to yourself and think you’re not. We all just have different standards on what we think is attractive.
These rules can also be used inversely for men’s profiles too I guess??


Spartan_Warrior
Posts: 1659
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Glad you guys liked my suggestions. If I can help even one hopelessly inept INTJ, then it was all worth it. :D
Re: Gold-digging and American women
I don't think it's misogynistic to say that feminism in America changed the game in a lot of ways, and that many aspects of relationships (including peripheral ones, like the ironically named "family courts") are still trying to catch up. However, if you are seeking more traditional values, they still exist in America. Obviously finding a sugar momma who can support herself would alleviate (some of) the worries, but you might also consider looking for girls with a more religious/conservative background. My girlfriend is Christian while I'm agnostic (or, truthfully, just indifferent) yet I really appreciate the more traditional ways she views the world. She's even called me frugal--as a compliment. It can happen.
I also agree with Jenny's points, particularly that a lot of this comes down to an evolutionary "nesting instinct" and need for security, which gets conflated with money all too easily in our consumeristic/careerist society. I've found much less resistance to the idea of early retirement when it was framed as a fully paid off house, time to spend raising family, and no concerns about money.
As for marriage and ERE, it's worth pointing out that I wouldn't bother with it unless I (or we) could support the both of us, or at least the basic survival needs for both of us. (If you want your overpriced Coach handbags you can go to work for it.) Honestly, I wouldn't want to sit at home while my spouse has to schlep to work every day anyway--it would seem as unpleasant and boring for me as it would seem unfair to her.


Post Reply