Remove heavy loading logo

[fiby41]

Remove the heavy to load and large in size phpbb logo to the top left corner of every forum page.

It does not serve any function. For most pages: time taken to load logo > time taken to load everything else combined.

It will make it easier for people with a slow speed limited data connection to browse the forum. (You cannot read the posts in order in the RSS feed.)

[fiby41]

How to:

http://hostknox.com/tutorials/phpbb3/ch ... g-top-logo

[McTrex]

Your avatar picture is 4200 bytes, vs the logo 4500 bytes

[fiby41]

Yes, but my avatar only shows up on the posts I reply to; but the logo loads on each and every page the ~200 other daily active repeat viewers and I visit including the posts I reply to. I reply to may be every 100th reply I read averaged across a month.

Plus the avatar serves the purpose of helping viewers instantly recognize replies made by me and threads I've started. I've no problem if the phpbb logo is replaced with the ERE logo of greater size and dimensions. Especially considering new first time visitors, having the default phpbb logo comes off as unprofessional, gives the impression that the admin is not serious with what he's upto and takes up valuable space considering the viewer is most likely going to close the tab in less than the next 10 seconds and not come back ever again.

I'm trying to limit my data consumption to 1 GB per month:

viewtopic.php?t=6250

[fiby41]

Why? It is a one time change. Set it and forget it! It won't require any other effort or maintenance?

[slsdly]

Why don't use get an addon for your browser to do this? That way you can control your experience everywhere.

[fiby41]

@slsdly: I don't load images.

(See how to do that without an add on in Chrome and Firefox in the linked forum thread above. Bigato recommends a text only browser called lynx.)

I meant it'd be better if the forum had an ERE logo like the ERE Wiki has or no logo at all.

@McTrex: Also all avatars are hosted by their account holders independently. Only a link is provided to the forum which acts as a pointer to the image self-hosted elsewhere.

OTOH I suppose the phpbb logo is hosted on forum.earlyretirementextreme.com itself and results in raising the bandwidth and the bill.

[jacob]

Especially considering new first time visitors, having the default phpbb logo comes off as unprofessional, gives the impression that the admin is not serious with what he's upto and takes up valuable space considering the viewer is most likely going to close the tab in less than the next 10 seconds and not come back ever again.

Eliminating the 10-second attention span demographic would be a highly desirable effect. I'm actually quite serious about putting up barriers to create a selection bias for the visitors. Never thought the logo would work as a deterrence but if it does that's exactly the kind of tl;dr-people I'd rather avoid here. Just consider how many memes and lolcat images that logo has saved you from downloading! In any case, you could always just switch on caching on your browser.

[Pedal2Petal]

I'm actually quite serious about putting up barriers to create a selection bias for the visitors.

anti-marketing at its finest right here

[fiby41]

I don't inherently have a problem with memes and reaction GIFs as long as they are remotely relevant.

If you personally dislike them, just put a line saying so in the Rules and FAQ section like /r/financialindependence has and they won't happen.

Although I understand what you are saying, you have to realize that even the most thoughtful and rational people decide if to stick around or forget about a new site in a snap judgement. It simple isn't a priority when on a random trail down the interwebs.

Do what you see fit. Personally, I don't care anyway as it doesn't affect me either way because I don't load any images at all. Although if the site hosts the logo, scraping it will save bandwidth and reduce cost, in light of the recent server downtime.

If there is a genuine reason for not removing the logo other than inertia/laziness, technical incompetence or saying no for the sake of it; I'd like to hear it.

Recap of the benefits of scraping phpbb logo:

1. Pages will load faster for ALL ~200 viewers including the 11 moderators

2. Bandwidth saving for admin

3. Hosting cost reduction for admin

4. New visitors will now get to the body of the index page, click around, find something relevant to them, before they become disinterested and go away. Staring at the generic, unaesthetic logo takes up a big part of this limited time available on a first time visit. This way they'll have atleast one memory of a forum interaction intact so that hopefully they might come back some years later.

5. Cost saving for ALL viewers every time they visit if they're on a pay-as-you-go connection.

6. Branding, if it is replaced by ERE logo as on all the ERE Wiki pages instead of a billboard on the most trafficked page of the forum screaming an advert for phpbb.

[fiby41]

@Pedal2Petal: What you mean is 'targeting' or 'getting targeted traffic.' It is based on the (true) premise that you cannot be everything to everyone, all the time.

You might find it interesting to know that even 'get rich quick' email spam senders and the like do that. Example: variants of the 'nigerian prince scam' and the like are intentionally written in repulsive green / yellow fluorescent coloured text, Comic Sans font, intentionally broken sentence structures and riddled with grammatical mistakes. So that most people will dismiss them outright but only the most gullible people will take it seriously enough to trust it AND follow all instruction to its entirety. Thus the people self-select themselves to fall for it. This is called content-tailor made to fit the existing mindset of or for a 'target audience.'

[fiby41]

This is also why I'd rather assume all people make the most efficient economic decisions to the best of their knowledge and not go into the details of why people do (or in this case don't do) what they do as evidenced here:

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/forum ... =21&t=6386

[jacob]

The simple answer is that as a general rule management is not going to do any work, make any changes, or add anything to the maintenance schedule in order to solve nonproblems, fix minutiae, or make submarginal improvements. This goes for software, typos, graphics, etc. Everything!

The cost-benefit of this particular issue is deemed negative because it adds to the maintenance list then next time any software changes comes down from above. It adds 5-10 minutes of current work. And it turns out that apparently NOBODY has a problem with the logo anyway, so why bother

The apparent fact that it might deter anyone who makes snap judgements while browsing randomly despite being "thoughtful" and "rational" is just an added bonus.

[Dragline]

Problems with logos? Try logotherapy.

[jennypenny]

Problems with logos? Try logotherapy.

I'm typing my book review response and thought the same thing.


I'm so clueless, I didn't even notice that the image up top had changed until he pointed it out. It's obviously not bothering me.

[C40]

Remove the heavy to load and large in size phpbb logo to the top left corner of every forum page....

You know, now that you bring it up, I do think it would look better without that logo. If you want to actually convince people to do something, you should really work on your approach. When you start with a demand (in the subject line), and then repeat the demand again to start the post, all before ever giving any reason... well.. that's not going to work out very often.

[fiby41]

If you want to actually convince people to do something, you should really work on your approach.

Last time I made an admin request I started with 'Please...' and the thread got deleted. Twice. Since that clearly didn't work, I decided to change my approach this time around and be a bit more forceful.

I was making a request for the blog be made available in an (portable) ebook format because (free or for a fee):

1. Due to the recycling/reposting plug-in it is impossible to find and keep track of something you haven't already read
2. Some people like to read perennial/evergreen/timeless content which is in blog format in its entirety from the first post. This is currently not possible.
3. Making the blog available in ebook format is a one time effort, has no maintenance/update costs, is a set it and forget it, works as a presell for the book. I had listed the how to in the post
4. The blog has ~1090 posts. I've read the last ~250 recycled posts. At the recycle rate of 3 posts a day, it is going to take the recycle plug-in a year to go through all posts. Now the only way to read all posts currently is to come back and be drip-fed 3 posts a day. Some people want to go at a faster rate than that. If you miss even a day, and forget you missed it, at the end of the year it is going to be PITA to dig through to find the needle in a haystack.
5. Having a free/paid ebook option does not reduce the value of the blog.

In that case, like this (I don't load any images), either outcome does not affect me as I already have ebook with about a 1000 posts (some of them repeat) back when the copyright licence on the blog was 'Creative Commons Share Alike Non-Commercial Use Unported 3.0' before it got changed to 'All rights reserved' in mid-January.

--

@Bigato: This is not a black and white, right-wrong, good-bad issue with binary options but a matter of degree of preference.

I don't want an explanation from you anyway because:

1. You don't care to explain? You did care enough to let me know in a reply that you didn't care to reply, didn't you?
2. According to 'The Team' page (linked at the bottom of forum) you don't have admin privilege anyway required to make the necessary change

--

I take it then than laziness and ventilation as the reasons why. As mentioned above, if these were the reasons you didn't have to take the trouble to let me know.

[jennypenny]

@fiby41--I think part of the issue here is that you've been a member of the forum for only a short time. It seems in poor form to suggest 'improvements' while you're still getting your feet wet, but obviously it's not a capital offense, and you did receive a response to your suggestions. Your indignation at being denied is odd since it implies that you feel qualified to determine what is best for the forum without having read much of it. Case in point, you started this thread, yet something similar (and the link to the global rich list) had already been posted in this thread. Another case in point, you started this thread, and a couple already exist including this one.

Posting something that has already appeared in an earlier post is not a big deal. We've all done it since the forum has been around a while. Usually, a forum member who remembers the topic will post a link to the old thread to help the person out with their question. I'm pointing it out in your case because it shows that you are not very familiar with the forum. If you've taken the time to skim the blog posts, it might also make sense to read through the old forum posts as well before insisting that changes be made. If you took the time to poke around the old posts, you'd learn that the forum has gone through a couple of large migrations over the past couple of years, and bigato was a key figure in making the transitions successfully. (you don't have to look any further than page 2 of the ERE Book/Blog/Forum sub-forum for threads related to bigato's work in this regard)

If you've made requests and they were denied, repeating them or airing them in public comes across as petulant, especially since you're still kinda new and, as you said, neither outcome affects you. It might explain the responses you're getting from some folks.

[fiby41]

I think part of the issue here is that you've been a member of the forum for only a short time.

I do not value imposed hierarchy over merit, validity or relevance of opinion (what is being said vs who is saving it) even IRL and recall nothing I've wrote which gives such an impression here.

To wit, having 11(!) moderators for a forum that rarely has more than 60* new replies a day seems like a textbook case of Old Boy's Club feeding each other's ego.

Case in point

Forums are not static nor is their membership base without member turnover (new viewers creating accounts, old members not coming back.). I wanted the view of the current members. Also not everyone starts threads for the facts but the discussion that ensues (which are generally more informative) evident by the fact that for any two threads with the same topic, the member interactions are vastly different. Just one example: Zalo's 'How to make money online?' vs Zalo's 'How to make money blogging?'. In such cases plugging in with the link to previous threads kills the discussion prematurely.
Hence why I started a few threads when I already had read a similar one is the same reason bloggers blog on the same trivial topic multiple times.

you took the time to poke around the old posts

I'm aware of the forum software migration and version update.

repeating them or airing them

First post was a request. Months after when the request didn't materialize, I provided limited to 250 post copy of the ebook to whomsoever was so inclined to have it (like I was) as I was under the impression that the blog was still available under Creative Commons. My end was reached, it proved to the one person "management" that there was market for the blog in ebook form. I promptly deleted the thread when asked to.

especially since you're still kinda new

And have no inclination of gaining (perceived) superiority.

Petulant? Come on!
Jacob prides himself in calling this forum INTJ central (not to be confused with the real INTJ Central.) I do not buy it when being impersonal is taken as arrogance.

Edit: *Extremely optimistic estimate. Historic average on this forum is 46 posts a day.

[jennypenny]

First post was a request. Months after when the request didn't materialize, I provided limited to 250 post copy of the ebook to whomsoever was so inclined to have it (like I was) as I was under the impression that the blog was still available under Creative Commons. My end was reached, it proved to the one person "management" that there was market for the blog in ebook form. I promptly deleted the thread when asked to.

It's not one person management, it's one person ownership (jacob). I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you feel you have a vested interest in how he runs things or what he does with his own content.

If you want to actually convince people to do something, you should really work on your approach.

Last time I made an admin request I started with 'Please...' and the thread got deleted. Twice. Since that clearly didn't work, I decided to change my approach this time around and be a bit more forceful.

Sorry, but yes, this comes across as petulant. "Since that clearly didn't work" = since I didn't get my way.

You made a request. It was turned down. Reposting the request (and being "a bit more forceful") even though the original was deleted is inappropriate.