ERE - the brand

The Old Man · Post by **The Old Man** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:45 pm

What does ERE mean?
Officially it is an acronym for Early Retirement Extreme, but does this even make sense? Jacob has come out and said that what he does is not extreme – anyone can live well for less. Jacob isn’t even retired as he is now a quant trader. As far as ‘Early’ since neither ‘Extreme’ nor ‘Retirement’ are applicable, then ‘Early’ as an adjective is meaningless. In sum, Early Retirement Extreme is a meaningless phrase.
Jacob has said ERE is really about financial independence. To me this term screams scam. Get rich quick schemers and other charlatans use this term to entice the young and naïve. A better ERE definition is necessary.
To me the quote below is the essence of ERE. Extra points if you can identify the source.
“And I’m not talking a $400,000 a year working Wall Street stiff flying first class and being comfortable. I’m talking about liquid.”
We should ban the word “Retirement” and start talking about “Liquid”. ERE – it is all about expanding your options.

dragoncar · Post by **dragoncar** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:28 pm

It doesn't have to be liquid. Income property is ok too.
I call it FUME (fuck you money extreme). I think it is extreme, which is a comparative qualifier based on societal norms. I'm not sure I've seen Jacob say he wasn't extreme. To the average person in the developed world, saving 80% of your take home is indeed extreme.

palmera · Post by **palmera** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:24 pm

FUME™
I like it!

tylerrr · Post by **tylerrr** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:01 pm

compared to most of "1st world" society, these methods are definitely extreme.
But to my logic, it just makes sense and there is nothing extreme about it. In fact, I would say trashing the Earth by buying crap every day is pretty extreme in the other direction.

Post by **jacob** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:51 am

The idea was fully developed as I was writing the blog, not prior to. Early Retirement Extreme seemed like a catchy name at the time. Today I would have called it something else.
I am not able to summarize "the brand" into a few catchy sentences. One problem is that, as mentioned above, it's really quite obvious, but only after one rearranges one thinking. This is the standard problem with philosophies---they have 400 pages of definitions that try to typecast new concepts into the words of existing concepts. After this "conversion" is complete, the philosophy can be describes in a few paragraphs, typically.
Personally, I consider the retirement part and even the financial independence part to be MINOR aspects of ERE and the efficiency, adaptability and self-reliance to be MAJOR parts of ERE.
I think someone who modded his vehicle, built his own house, has a hydroponic garden, 4 different sources of independent income (i.e. not just four clients in the same field vis a vis four rental units or four stocks), and is autodidact in several fields is closer to "ERE" than someone who made bank quickly to become FI, retired from a mono-career and now draws down the money that was saved spending it on "experiences".
(This can actually be easily observed from the compatibility between ERE and various other forums. Not surprisingly the greatest affinity is NOT found in investment and early retirement communities but in permaculture, survivalist, and peak oil communities).
However, I also intentionally left "ERE" pretty open-ended so people could do what they wanted with it. I deliberately did not want people to revert to the base-level of simply copying me. The psychological projection/pigeon-holing of ERE that is seen around the net is unfortunate.
If I had to write it all over, I would do it differently. That's the difference between research (first time) and development (distilled research).

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:45 am

One of the things I liked about Jacob's book, and the entire ERE movement, is that you can't dilute it into a slogan or a brand. It's too complicated; it's a system of thinking. It's really not unlike post-structuralism or (I suppose) string theory.
It's a collection of metaphors, theories, and hypotheses that help people to think about life in a particular way. It's the exact opposite of a get rich quick scheme, in that respect.
I always thought it was fascinating how so many different types of people are attracted to ERE. Survivalists, libertarians, socialists, environmentalists, professors, prostitutes, and hedge fund managers.

Dragline · Post by **Dragline** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:57 am

The central ideas are ancient and timeless. The particular labels are meaningless, but are often the only things separating the survivalists, libertarians, socialists, environmentalists, professors, prostitutes, and hedge fund managers.

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:19 am

Extremely well put, Dragline. Sadly, too many people focus on the labels and not on the ideas.

dragoncar · Post by **dragoncar** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:18 am

Renaissance Endowment(tm).

Maus · Post by **Maus** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:14 pm

ERE = Emergent Renaissance Ecology
Emergent because we anticipate the incipient "dark ages" (peak oil, global warming, the end of economic growth, etc.) proactively by developing resilience and anti-fragility in the Taleb sense.
Renaissance in the sense of the polymathic, Da Vincian universal human, willing to explore every aspect of life with curiosity and zeal.
Ecology in the broad sense of the individual's interaction with environment, society, the flow of materials and energy, etc.

J_ · Post by J_ » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Maus: What a creative and educated solution you have found. Thank you

Hoplite · Post by **Hoplite** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:52 pm

Another thank you, Maus! I mentally catalogue the book as The Polymath's Guide to the Good Life

jennypenny · Post by **jennypenny** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:45 pm

@Maus and Hoplite--I love the titles. It's like we're creating our own ecology or ecosystem instead of participating in the consumer ecosystem.
EREcosystem?

J_ · Post by J_ » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:11 pm

Jenny did you mean EROSystem?

The Old Man · Post by **The Old Man** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:45 am

“Personally, I consider the retirement part and even the financial independence part to be MINOR aspects of ERE and the efficiency, adaptability and self-reliance to be MAJOR parts of ERE.”
@Jacob: If you believe this you should change the forum by-line to be reflective of this idea. Right now it is about financial independence. Additionally, the home page byline has a hodge-podge of concepts that make it hard to understand what ERE is about.
I find the Renaissance ideal to be the most interesting element in ERE. I think it sets it apart from other financial freedom communities. The Renaissance ideal is what I believe you mean by “efficiency, adaptability and self-reliance”. The Renaissance ideal is in neither of your bylines.

Post by **jacob** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:46 pm

@General Snoopy - "Renaissance" has the problem that the vernacular definition ("something new") is not what is meant here.
Maybe the byline should be "---it's complicated"

In my view ERE suffers from the problem of being too complex for TV in the Jerry Mander sense. I can't fit it into a 30 second soundbite or a single line. The single line can thus either be used to

1) Give the part of the message that's easiest to understand.

2) Exclude those who are unwilling to make the effort to understand.

Both are marketing strategies in common use.

jennypenny · Post by **jennypenny** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:42 pm

I never liked the term "renaissance" because I associate it with men, not women. I don't think I would have bothered checking out the blog if it had renaissance in the title.
I find it really amusing that it's so hard to explain to people what is essentially self-sufficiency.
edit: maybe "self-reliance" is a better term, or a combination of the two.