Late Sexuality Extreme!

Should you squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle or from the end?
7Wannabe5
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Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:26 am

The purpose of this thread/online-course shall be to discuss the means by which a person who strives to retire early/extreme may also continue to experience sexuality late/extreme. In particular, we shall strive through compilation, analysis and extrapolation of information through application of the most modern scientific methods and scholarly archival folk-way research-methodology to demonstrate that the achievement of both of these goals tends towards coherence rather than mutual exclusivity when the rigor of systems theory is applied to overall lifestyle design.

A cursory perusal of the library of documents produced on the topic of extreme early retirement, would place the first incidence of use of the unit descriptor "life-energy" in the 1992 work (Dominguez/Robin) "Your Money or Your Life." First usage of this term in the study of human sexuality was certainly much earlier, and likely to have occurred not much after the first known adoption of the clearly related concept of "Qi" circa 1600 BCE. In the development of our Early Retirement/Late Sexuality Extreme systems model, this will be the central stock with which we will be concerned.

(Imagine me applying dry-erase to projector. Everybody draw a rectangle in the middle of your paper and label it LIFE ENERGY)



I have attached two visual diagrams* reflecting independently acquired, yet clearly correlated, data sets. Your first assignment will be to posit a flow or factor other than the simple metric of years-since-birth that might be contributory to this sad state of current affairs.

I am aware that some of you are likely still wondering why this thread is being hosted under Politics/Disagreements, but if you consult the syllabus, which I may or may not have yet made available, you will see that we will eventually be tackling demographic trends related to the controversy surrounding the rapid expansion of the Japanese Elder Porn industry and also hopefully engaging in some ground-breaking field work exploring the hard limits of Bang/Buck.








Image

Image


Any questions?

*(I do wish to apologize for the heterosexual bias in this first level analysis due to the paucity of current research in the field of gerontological sexuality in general.)

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Dragline
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Dragline » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:03 am

I'd be curious to see the women's table and compare to see who is likely to be under-reporting and who is over-reporting, although I think I could guess.

I'm taking the anomalous 63.2% figure in the 70+ column may involve a data-collection issue, but there could be an interesting story there, too.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:53 am

@Dragline: Here is the most recent (2009) AARP survey. Table 52 offers more extensive information relevant to all individuals over the age of 45. It indicates a considerably higher level of activity than the above table, but still indicates that at least 37.5% of individuals over the age of 45 have not engaged in sexual intercourse in the last 6 months. Some of the discrepancy between male and female reporting is due to men having younger partners.

http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/general/srr_09.pdf


One conjecture I might offer regarding the anomalous 63.2% figure would be that it might have something to do with proximity to partner. Older individuals who are partnered, not married, are more likely to maintain separate residences. Intermittent proximity in conjunction with the lengthening of the refractory period in older men will tend towards more strict limitation of total frequency due to lack of ability to "make up for lost time", especially if maintenance of separate residences limits frequency of access to partner upon awakening from sleep cycles.

Toska2
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Toska2 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:25 pm

I believe the top graph is outdated and/or misleading. Some of the physical positives are: advances in healthcare, people no longer tanning, hair dye no longer turning blue (unless you want it blue), popularity of low impact or social exercise (yoga & spin class).
Some of the intangibles: Women choosing their own careers instead of conforming to the formerly rigid structure of business. (creative thinking & expression) Independence. Confidence of making it on their own.

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Ego
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Ego » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:57 pm

Toska2 wrote:I believe the top graph is outdated and/or misleading.
+1

I guess it depends whether the definition of attractiveness involves an actual conversation.

Felipe
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Felipe » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:27 pm

+1 Ego

On the 2nd graph. It's interesting how many partnered & married men don't play monthly after their 50's. I'm guessing this is from decreased libido and decreased romancing.

Also interesting how beyond 30's, partnered men seem to play more than married men and single men play the least of all. I'd guess that partnered older men are in newer relationships.

This study excludes gay and asexual men, correct?

A question on the topic- What effect does length of relationship have on sexual frequency?

7Wannabe5
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:06 pm

Toska2 said: I believe the top graph is outdated and/or misleading. Some of the physical positives are: advances in healthcare, people no longer tanning, hair dye no longer turning blue (unless you want it blue), popularity of low impact or social exercise (yoga & spin class).
Some of the intangibles: Women choosing their own careers instead of conforming to the formerly rigid structure of business. (creative thinking & expression) Independence. Confidence of making it on their own.
Ego said: I guess it depends whether the definition of attractiveness involves an actual conversation.
I agree that many people are able to maintain higher level of attractiveness and youthful spirit or vigor longer in life due to many recent innovations. I also agree that many people prefer peer relationships. However, I would say that the main reason why the first graph is not very useful is that a better approach would be to ask something like "What is the age range of females/males that you find attractive?" and then correlate the answer with the age of the respondent. I believe the graphs would still indicate that men prefer relatively younger with wider variance from their own age, and women prefer relatively older with smaller variance from their own age, but the results would be a bit more reflective of what we would likely observe checking out random couples, whether long-attached or freshly dating, seated in any random restaurant or public theater.

Another obvious fact that isn't reflected on this graph, is that by the time you are middle-aged, all the other individuals who are in other age groups have marched forward through the years, getting older themselves, but retaining the same age gap relative to you. When I was 21, I found some men in their 40s attractive, and now that I am 51, I still find some men in their 70s attractive. Meanwhile, the kid who was 11 when I was 21, is now a 41 year old balding divorced guy with two teenage kids, a cottage on the lake, and a bit of a paunch. AND after you've made this realization, another simple calculation (51-15=36, 51+36=87) will inform you that this marching forward in ranks of relative age cohorts is likely to continue for a few more decades until most everybody ahead of you falls over the edge. Was I objectively more physically attractive when I was 21 than I am at 51? Yes. Does bemoaning that reality help me figure out how I might best make plans to enjoy a healthy sexuality at the age of 81? Only if I am able to maintain a level of objectivity/acceptance, and then creatively move forward from there, hard sorting the arbitrary from the inevitable effects of the accumulating years, keeping sharp-focus on self-aware self-care and self-interest.

Anyways, I showed that graph to my 50 year old sister, and she laughed and said "Well, I think I have another 5 years anyways, since that 22 year old I hit it with last year won't stop texting." Of course, she does yoga for an hour every day and shelled out a couple grand for a teensy-weensy eye-lift, so MMV.
Felipe said: On the 2nd graph. It's interesting how many partnered & married men don't play monthly after their 50's. I'm guessing this is from decreased libido and decreased romancing.

Also interesting how beyond 30's, partnered men seem to play more than married men and single men play the least of all. I'd guess that partnered older men are in newer relationships.

This study excludes gay and asexual men, correct?

A question on the topic- What effect does length of relationship have on sexual frequency?
The simple answer is that frequency tends to go down with length of relationship.
For example, sociologist Vaughn Call and colleagues (1995) surveyed over six thousand married people living in the United States and reported that sexual activity was highest among the youngest respondents (those ranging in age from nineteen to twenty-nine, who had sex approximately ten to twelve times per month), became progressively lower in older age groups (e.g., four to seven times a month among forty- and fifty-yearolds), and reached its nadir among respondents in their seventies (who engaged in intercourse with their spouses less than twice a month). The majority of studies also find that the longer couples have been married, the less often they have sex (Rao and DeMaris 1995; Samson et al. 1991). This decline may be greatest during the first year or the first few years of the relationship. For example, William James (1981) analyzed diaries kept by newlywed couples over the course of their first year of marriage. Couples reported having sex on seventeen or more occasions during their first month of married life; however, by the end of the year, their rate of intercourse had declined to approximately eight times a month.
Another likely reason why partnered men experience more frequency is that there is less likelihood of decline to lowest common denominator of desire in a relationship that holds fewer other factors at risk. IOW, divorce is a huge deterrent to switching partners, and the possibility of your partner choosing to switch-up is a huge deterrent to allowing yourself to wallow in sexual slump. In cultures where polygamy is practiced, the possibility of your husband taking a second wife sometimes has similar effect. However, I should note that this sort of social pressure, legal-enforcement of lopsided sexual market, will often lead to maintenance of frequency, but immense decrease in quality of sexual interactions. IOW, you can lead a horse to water, but....

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Olaz
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Olaz » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:29 am

The title made me think of being a fit, wealthy 70 year old dating good-looking, crunchy chic 70 year olds.

Speaking of which, I saw what appeared to be a fit 60-70 year old man donning a leather jacket with his arm around a bright red-jacketed beautiful 70 year old woman descending a mountain side trail once. Goals

7Wannabe5
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:59 am

@Olaz: "Crunchy chic", I like it. I used to have a neighbor who had an uber-fit 70-something year old father who would come visit her in the van-abode he shared with his second wife who was probably in her late 60s. I was somewhat envious of their lifestyle.

The AARP survey of older adults (age 45+) which I linked above, found that the number one factor predicting satisfaction with sex life was sexual frequency (most clearly correlated with having a partner since rates of self-stimulation were similar among those single and partnered), followed by physical health (fewer medications, more exercise), less stress and low level of financial worries. Therefore, we can see that many of the practices that are conservative of financial life-energy in early life will also tend towards maintaining store of sexual life-energy in mid to late life.

Since I spend a good deal of time in the company of older people who are significantly out of sync in theses realms of finance/health/sexuality-relationships, I am curious about what practices might best lend themselves to improvement. As a middle-aged female who is single and dating, I meet a lot of older men who are still significantly locked into high-stress careers, high-expense lifestyles, the SOP of stashing millions away for retirement, and only secondarily able to concern themselves with physical health maintenance/improvement, and only tertiarily able to concern themselves with issues related to their levels of sexual satisfaction. So, I find that I am generally more free to experience a vibrant sex life than most of my male dating peers who have much higher incomes or levels of wealth than me. Dr. Obvious might point out that Theory 1 ought to be "7WB5 is cuckoo-bananas", but I think digging a bit deeper might reveal a more universal solution.

What I am hinting at or sniffing out is a theory along the lines that it might be more efficacious to start with the attempt to achieve the extreme of sexual frequency and then allow the practices that will correlate physical and financial health follow from there rather than vice-versa. The reason why I suggest this alternative methodology for life-style design is that the three main problems people seek to solve through financial means would be survival, security and status, and status and sexuality are clearly intertwined concepts in our culture and/or for our species. Therefore, I would suggest that a high level of satisfaction with sex life would correlate with a low level of concern about status which would then lead to a lower level of need to accumulate "stuff." This would also obviate the tendency towards default to the "monk/nun's solution" for status-acquisition which I do not believe is truly contributory to maximized lifestyle contentment for the majority of humans. The objective metric of frequency would also eliminate any faux claims of contentment often made by those in long-term slumping-towards-the-sofa-center default-to-lowest-common-denominator-towards-near-bed-death relationships, which as the table above reveals are very common and, IMO, also hugely contributory to overall poor physical health practices in mid-life and later. Nothing like discovering that your spouse is making joint savings account withdrawals to fund regular visits to a dead-eyed Russian hand-whore to get your fat-azz running round the block a few times.

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Stahlmann » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:42 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote: So, I find that I am generally more free to experience a vibrant sex life than most of my male dating peers who have much higher incomes or levels of wealth than me.
So even somebody accumulated millions will be called loser based on ,,Well, money is not enough... This guy should have more sex!".

How about following thought: Maybe dating is inherently more difficult for men and they just to want to focus on more tangible activities like earning money?
7Wannabe5 wrote: Therefore, I would suggest that a high level of satisfaction with sex life would correlate with a low level of concern about status which would then lead to a lower level of need to accumulate "stuff."
From my point of view you are projecting following pattern: ,,I am attracted to high-status men. Unfortunately, they are attracted to different women than I am".

You suggest they should stop being high-status. In my opinion, as a result, you won't be attracted to them...

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Felipe » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:53 pm

@Stahlmann
I perceived different things from her comments than you.

My perception was that creating a life with more sexual intimacy dampens the need for status as it more deeply fulfills what status attempts to satisfy, nobody is being called a loser or to dump their status.

You're free to disagree but there's no need to be rude in expressing your disagreements.

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Stahlmann » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:15 pm

Felipe wrote:@Stahlmann
I perceived different things from her comments than you.

My perception was that creating a life with more sexual intimacy dampens the need for status as it more deeply fulfills what status attempts to satisfy, nobody is being called a loser or to dump their status.

You're free to disagree but there's no need to be rude in expressing your disagreements.
I would rate my last post as controversial (or thought provoking), not rude. I will try to be more tactful in future, but based on experiences from different thread I must say there is bias towards certain way of thinking.

Anyway, one time we drive away from primary focus of the topic.

I want to state one more time:

How about following thought: Maybe dating is inherently more difficult for men and they just to want to focus on more tangible activities like earning money?

And OP is free to choose dating partners, but it is harsh to say ,,they are less satisfied with their sexual life". How about considering hoops that men need to overcome to be fulfiled? I think it is hard for women to understand, because for example (most of the time) they do not have to deal with rejection as they (women) are closers of the deal...

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Felipe » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:52 pm

"dating is inherently more difficult for men"
Based on my experiences in USA-I agree. I've met girls from Asia who came here and went from ugly duckling in Asia to more attention than know what to do with. When I've traveled through Asia, I feel the reversal-I notice a high demand for me. I can date multiple partners in USA, but it requires plenty of effort to meet and plan for this.

"they just to want to focus on more tangible activities like earning money?"
Simple, skill already accumulated here. I can see the appeal and value here.

"it is harsh to say ,,they are less satisfied with their sexual life"
I've met asexual people. Not for me but sex isn't enjoyable for them so for some sex is not a factor and for many others, is less of a factor than health, wealth, friendship, etc.

"How about considering hoops that men need to overcome to be fulfiled?"
Maslow's Hierarchy applies to all humans. I agree that men may have a harder time feeling fulfilled sexually due to cultural biases-both on the pressure to have more sex and other factors. Is this what you refer to?

"I think it is hard for women to understand, because for example (most of the time) they do not have to deal with rejection as they (women) are closers of the deal..."
I think the closer of the deal depends on who feels greater urgency. The last 2 girls I dated both pressured me to go exclusive (before I felt I really knew them) to the point of pushing me away. Men are expected to initiate so I see how you'd feel this way but either party can leave the agreement at any point. I had a hard time leaving an ex because she'd keep calling me and endearing me after I tried blocking her out and I couldn't resist her charm. Eventually, I was able to say no but it was one of the harder things I've had to do in my life.

I've hung out with girls who got very upset with me when I didn't kiss them when we were alone in my room. They felt rejected because I was too unaware at that point to know what they wanted.

I think, in general, a woman often has the higher threshold on when to have sex due to culture so this can be seen as "closer of the deal". But normally, a man initiates the relationship and offers the terms of contract for the relationship.

I'm not disagreeing with your main points, but there's other ways to see these points that can empower.

@7wannabe5, is that syllabus ready?

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:53 pm

Stahlmann said: So even somebody accumulated millions will be called loser based on ,,Well, money is not enough... This guy should have more sex!".
I am not saying that anybody is a loser. I am saying that based on my own social experience, and the survey/graphic information I posted above, there are many people who find themselves at the peak of their wealth accumulation and heading into a deepening trough of dissatisfaction with their sex life at the same point in life.
How about following thought: Maybe dating is inherently more difficult for men and they just to want to focus on more tangible activities like earning money?
It seems to me that both activities are equally tangible if reduced to a simple, perhaps ridiculously simple, measurable metric. I agree that dating/mating is inherently more difficult, and that is exactly why I suggested that it might be a more effective metric. I don't think it is necessarily any more difficult for a man, except maybe to the reflective extent you would agree that earning money might be relatively more difficult for a woman. I think individuals of both sexes often have difficulty feeling like they are yet worthy of sex. We carry around long lists of ToDos that must be checked off before the "reward" of sexual activity is warranted. Oftentimes, the days go by and the items on this ToDo list never seem to be completed. Sex is sort of like exercise in that it often does not get the priority placement in our schedules/goals that the benefits to our well-being it offers would warrant.
From my point of view you are projecting following pattern: ,,I am attracted to high-status men. Unfortunately, they are attracted to different women than I am".

You suggest they should stop being high-status. In my opinion, as a result, you won't be attracted to them...
Well, I am always willing to concede that I might be lacking complete self-awareness in my motivations. However, it is not currently the case that I have difficulty attracting high status men. Probably my problem is something more like I have experienced difficulty maintaining my independence or boundaries in relationship with high status men, so currently behaving like some kind of gun-shy hit-and-run monkey in a bunny suit.
Felipe said: My perception was that creating a life with more sexual intimacy dampens the need for status as it more deeply fulfills what status attempts to satisfy, nobody is being called a loser or to dump their status.
You actually stated it in more eloquent terms than I was likely to use, but this does better approximate what I was attempting to communicate. On one of the threads on this forum, somebody posted some pictures of a young man who lived in a tiny dwelling in a friend's backyard. A debate ensued on the topic of whether or not he would be able to attract any "quality" women living in such circumstances. I knew that he could. Of course, there's a sort of self-referential loop in which you could endlessly find yourself tangled which would inform you that any woman who would be attracted to a man who lives in a tiny house like that could not be a "quality" woman. So, part of what I am suggesting is that any time a person finds themselves having a thought like that, they should test it in the real world. Some other negative thoughts might be "It's impossible to date if you don't have a car." or "It's impossible to date without spending at least $50."
Stahlmann said: How about considering hoops that men need to overcome to be fulfiled? I think it is hard for women to understand, because for example (most of the time) they do not have to deal with rejection as they (women) are closers of the deal...
I am probably more empathetic than you know. I was married for 19 years to a man with a much lower sex drive than me. So, I have suffered through my share of rejection and misery. Luckily, in the 10 years since my divorce, I have been quite successful in my attempt to make up for lost time ;) I really am just a sort of harmless goody-two-shoes who feels like it is one of her missions in life to see to it that other people are happy because they are getting laid too. Perhaps I was a babushka wearing village matchmaker in a previous life.
Felipe said: I think, in general, a woman often has the higher threshold on when to have sex due to culture so this can be seen as "closer of the deal". But normally, a man initiates the relationship and offers the terms of contract for the relationship.
Quite true, and this is why the one piece of advice I drummed into my DD25 was "ONLY take men literally." Women often waste a good deal of life energy in relationships trying to fulfill contracts that were never offered in the first place.
@7wannabe5, is that syllabus ready?
Hmmm....some difficulties involving 4 dogs and a jar of apricot jam have impeded my ability to distribute the syllabus in it's entirety...this week's assignment will mirror one of the first exercises offered in "Your Money or Your Life." Instead of attempting to recollect and compile your entire life's history of earnings, you will attempt to recollect your entire sexual history and determine whether or not you are frequently finding yourself in the common systems trap of "drift to low performance." IOW, are you exhibiting behavior in alignment with thoughts along the lines of "Well, once I went without sex for 3 years, so going 2 years without sex isn't that bad."

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Felipe » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:31 am

"attempt to recollect your entire sexual history and determine whether or not you are frequently finding yourself in the common systems trap of 'drift to low performance.'"

It's been a few months for me since I've played. I've been a bit repelled since a bad first date and too much pressure from girls I liked but wasn't excited about enough to commit to in the few months I knew them. This experience led me to wanting to work on myself rather than keep meeting new potential partners. It's my first time sober for over 2 months and I'm starting to focus on eating healthier so I've enjoyed the extra focus.

I understand that it's healthy but I don't feel the motivation to keep dating until I find someone I'm long-term compatible with. Short-term things are too high risk and low reward to appeal much to me.

"ONLY take men literally"
The first time I read this from you it helped me better understand respect. When a man only says what is true for him, she can trust and rest into knowing what is there. I think it frees a woman up to be the feminine more.

On that point-What exactly is respect? What is masculine?
Google points to masculine as having qualities associated with strength, aggression. I believe what men consider masculine is different from what women consider masculine. Men often compete over who has the biggest salary or who can push the most weight but someone who has a smaller salary or push less weight can be seen as more masculine by his woman based on the trust she has that what he says is real, ability to inspire her safety and security-to ground her in a relaxing space, quality of attention-to hear her with your whole being more deeply than she can, in general-the ability to free up her bubbly feminine by providing and protecting.

I get that certain shoulder to waist ratios have a more masculine look but at this point, I see behavior (generally) as a bigger factor than appearance in male attractiveness to females.

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:52 am

I understand that it's healthy but I don't feel the motivation to keep dating until I find someone I'm long-term compatible with. Short-term things are too high risk and low reward to appeal much to me.
I may be completely off-base, but my suggestion would be that your problem is that your behavior is signaling that you would be good boyfriend or husband material rather than signaling that you are somebody with whom it would be fun, or otherwise rewarding, to have a temporary/intermittent fling or ongoing low risk/stress part-time or side-gig. The reason you are choosing to signal in this manner is either due to a very understandable reluctance to self-identify as a member of the sub-set of men sometimes described as "douche-bag players" OR because this is the skill-set you currently or more "naturally" possess and feel more comfortable engaging.

One example of what I am suggesting is that instead of exhibiting your skill in empathetic listening, you might attempt developing and exhibiting more skill in playful banter. Broaden your self-identity by broadening your skill-set. Human beings are very impressionable, and ultimately the only way we can know/experience each other is through our behavior. Another common behavior often exhibited to signal "don't rely on me too much" is randomization of contact. If you ask a girl out three Fridays in a row, unless she is a serious mistress of the art of "ONLY take men literally", she may already be considering floral arrangements and honeymoon destinations.

From "Savvy Chic: The Art of More for Less":
In affluent eras, a black dress is an option rather than a uniform of survival. But come tougher times, and the idea of a monochrome wardrobe is immediately dusted off and revived. If you need a serious job, you don't buy polka dots. If you want a husband and not a lover, you'll choose black over scarlet. Security dwells in doing what you know will work.
someone who has a smaller salary or push less weight can be seen as more masculine by his woman based on the trust she has that what he says is real, ability to inspire her safety and security-to ground her in a relaxing space, quality of attention-to hear her with your whole being more deeply than she can, in general-the ability to free up her bubbly feminine by providing and protecting.
Absolutely true, and exactly slightly more than half of what you should choose to signal if/when you are ready to make significant investment in a relationship. However, if you wish to get laid in the interim, you might want to attempt considering marketing yourself to the girls or women (I am distinguishing between spirit rather than age here) who are currently choosing to dress themselves in polka-dots or scarlet. CAVEAT: Unfortunately, contrary, mixed or otherwise confusing signals are frequently exhibited by all participants in this market, so the best you can do is attempt to be a free self-aware adult interacting with other free self-aware adults.
What exactly is respect? What is masculine?....I get that certain shoulder to waist ratios have a more masculine look but at this point, I see behavior (generally) as a bigger factor than appearance in male attractiveness to females.
Behavior is generally much more important, but it depends on what sort of behavior you want from a female. For instance, men often complain that women don't initiate sex often enough, and my 36 years of experience chatting with other girls/women informs me that if you want females to initiate sexual behavior with you then you have to render yourself sensually appealing to them. OTOH, if you are only or mainly concerned with obtaining positive, receptive sexual response from a woman, then exhibiting strong attractive behavior set is all you need. Human females are not as hard-wired for visual arousal as males, so consider your semi-passive appeal to ears, nose and finger-tips as well as your look in the mirror. As in most things, a mixed strategy will render you most resilient. Maybe 70/30 masculine behavior/sensual appeal would "work" well with most women. There's a lot of room for shaking together your own unique mix since some women will go more for John Wayne and some women will go more for Johnny Depp, or whoever human females under the age of 40 go for these days-lol.

Circling around. The reason I qualified your very good insight into behavior that females find attractive with "exactly slightly more than half" is that you are suggesting a set of behaviors that would mostly tend towards engaging "trust." Unless you want to find yourself in relationship with a woman who is idiotic or suffering from severe low self-esteem, when you are "shopping for serious" you absolutely want to signal "I am the guy who will hold up your hair when you are vomiting, and still see you as beautiful." and "I am not the guy who will tell you I will meet you at the clock tower at 4:30, and then not show up until 5:00." You definitely want to be the Volvo, but it will be in your own long-run self-interest to bring more than that to the table, because even middle-aged married matrons sometimes want to dress themselves in polka-dots or scarlet.

People often use "respect" to mean something like "admiration" or even "simple good manners." In the realm of sexual dichotomy "offer respect" is more synonymous with "submit to dominance." In order for a human female to experience strong orgasm, she must first be fully/highly aroused and then release the anxiety center of her brain. In creating the strong psychological dominant/submissive bond, the partner who is rendered vulnerable or put at risk has to see value or self-interest in releasing control, even if it is only sensual pleasure in the moment. The first order mistake men often make is to offer relatively too much assistance in helping a female release her anxiety and not enough assistance in helping her to achieve strong arousal. The second order mistake men often make when they finally come around to recognition of what generally works best to turn women on is to hold them in disdain for having this innate mechanism. This is roughly analogous to a female holding men in disdain because they get turned on looking at young women with curvy figures. It is impossible to transcend these rough hard-wired tendencies until you first truly accept them. I would estimate that at least 60% of the population of even the most affluent, intelligent, thoughtful humans remain chronically locked in either clueless or resentful, maybe 20% of the population gets lucky and finds early success though some combination of natural ability and happenstance without need to reflect upon problem, and 10% purposefully achieves success after experiencing more than a few rounds of failure followed by consideration, and then there is the remaining 10% who are currently engaged in powdering their nose in the restroom or catching their breath on the sidelines. You are WAAAAY ahead of the curve in level of self-awareness for somebody your age, so I'm sure you will do well over the long-run.

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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Felipe » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:10 pm

Thanks for the detailed response. My main takeaway from your post is: "the only way we can know/experience each other is through our behavior." So by changing my behavior, I change others' experience of and reactions to me.

"The reason you are choosing to signal in this manner is either due to a very understandable reluctance to self-identify as a member of the sub-set of men sometimes described as "douche-bag players" OR because this is the skill-set you currently or more "naturally" possess and feel more comfortable engaging. "

I don't enjoy using condoms. If I have multiple partners, this requires more attention to safety as risks can increase quick. Mutual std tests and some form of birth control tend to be prerequisites, along with an understanding of our sexual history. I find sex for the sake of sex to not be worth the rewards for me when getting off is so much easier and quicker in other ways without risking my life. Also, for the really naughty play, it's more enjoyable when there's trust and a freedom to express without judgement or hold-ups. So long-term relationships are the preffered route for me because of these. I'm not ruling out the possibility of a long-term, light, safe relationship but it hasn't been my experience.

I've been perceived as a player early on by multiple women because the terms of contract I offer when first getting to know someone are that commitment is something to be taken seriously and I'll likely date others so I can be sure of who I commit to when I make that choice. I rarely have sex with more than 2 women in a given month. If I am doing this, I tend to feel anxious to move towards 1.

I admit, that I'll benefit from improving this skill-set of playful banter. Anything you'd recommend there?

"consider your semi-passive appeal to ears, nose and finger-tips as well as your look in the mirror"

Do you mean to shower, brush and floss twice a day, speak with a deep and smooth voice, cut my nails..?

"The reason I qualified your very good insight into behavior that females find attractive with "exactly slightly more than half" is that you are suggesting a set of behaviors that would mostly tend towards engaging "trust... "I am the guy who will hold up your hair when you are vomiting, and still see you as beautiful." and "I am not the guy who will tell you I will meet you at the clock tower at 4:30, and then not show up until 5:00." You definitely want to be the Volvo, but it will be in your own long-run self-interest to bring more than that to the table, because even middle-aged married matrons sometimes want to dress themselves in polka-dots or scarlet. "

I agree that my previous description missed much of the sensuous, flirtatious, playful fun side of relationships that are extremely important. I love sex but that hasn't been the limiting factor in most of my previous relationships-some form of trust or loyalty was missing in them so that's what I feel more motivated to build. Initiating is not a problem for me-I'll gladly initiate/seduce multiple times a day when I have a partner whose receptive to pleasure.

Telling her how beautiful she is to me, twirling her under moonlight, melting some chocolate and dipping it in strawberries to feed to eachother alongside candlelight, putting said chocolate on other delicious area to enjoy them even more, massaging her stress away, lapping up and drinking her intoxicating nectar, letting (as in not shaming but appreciating) her dress up sexy for going out, or even sexier for making a fun video, I agree that helping her feel sexy and expanding her world of what's possible to enjoy in her body is vital to a healthy sex life. Is this what you were getting at? I think trust complements, but can't replace this.

Also, if you have anything to add here, I'm interested in more ideas.

"The first order mistake men often make is to offer relatively too much assistance in helping a female release her anxiety and not enough assistance in helping her to achieve strong arousal. The second order mistake men often make when they finally come around to recognition of what generally works best to turn women on is to hold them in disdain for having this innate mechanism"

As a life-long student of sexuality, what other behaviors help increase her arousal?

" I would estimate that at least 60% of the population of even the most affluent, intelligent, thoughtful humans remain chronically locked in either clueless or resentful, maybe 20% of the population gets lucky and finds early success though some combination of natural ability and happenstance without need to reflect upon problem, and 10% purposefully achieves success after experiencing more than a few rounds of failure followed by consideration, and then there is the remaining 10% who are currently engaged in powdering their nose in the restroom or catching their breath on the sidelines. You are WAAAAY ahead of the curve in level of self-awareness for somebody your age, so I'm sure you will do well over the long-run."

Thank you for the complement. I'd say I'm in the 10% that is motivated to learn this out over their lifetime but currently catching my breath on the sidelines. One more note, I feel I may have some unrealistic expectations of others, too much attachment to the story in my head of how I'd prefer a partner to be. Loyal, honest, highly sexual, similar values(enjoys nature, into learning, easy to live with, sober, socially compatible). Easy to live with and loyal/honest are the spots I've felt the most challenge.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:14 pm

Felipe said: As a life-long student of sexuality, what other behaviors help increase her arousal?
Sexuality is precedent to love in the evolution of our species. Crocodiles f*ck but neither feel nor exhibit any analogue to maternal/infant bond in relationship to their partners. If you exhibit some behavior that "invokes the masculine" in the primal brain stem of a female, she will reflexively experience arousal. Because modern human female's brains and the cultures they live in are umpteen layers more complex than those of an ancient female member of the Crocodilia family, this is not always clearly evident.

The sort of behavior that will likely "invoke the masculine" would be anything that takes the interaction from the serene, sensual realm of lazy float down a river in the sunshine to sudden appearance of large boulders and choppy rapids. Sex with a man is much more enjoyable than masturbation, because just like you can't tickle yourself, you can't throw yourself up on a counter-top, or order yourself to hold a challenging posture, or place large, strong hand firmly on your own waist and whisper "As soon as I get you home, I am going to f*ck your pretty little brains out." in your own ear in the midst of a crowded party.

Bobby McGee
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Bobby McGee » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:54 pm

I am new to this forum, although I have been reading it for the last 6 months. I must say, I really enjoy your post 7Wannabe5.

This subject is quite interesting. So here I am seeking advice :

I am a soon to be 29 years old female and switching to a semi-retirement lifestyle in April 2017 after 8 years of full-time employment at high wages and frugal lifestyle. I am single and love it although would appreciate a little bit of companionship and more importantly, sex. Good sex. I am a introvert, ISFP ish.
I have a bad habit to get hooked within my single, male, co-workers pool. Which ended up with one short and very disappointing relationship and many near-miss. I should specify that I never flirt or courted those co-workers. I believe many males see me as good girlfriend material at my workplace so they try... this was mainly in the first few years (young and naïve) now I keep my distance and it makes the workplace so awkward and uncomfortable anyways when you fuck your co-workers. I learnt my lessons.

I tend to be a social outcast and have limited social interactions. Only with my close friends. Which tend to be males who I already slept with ( and have no intentions to do it again) or that I have a strong will to do but for whatever reasons it will not happen. I think I should really go away from that and find people I really enjoy connecting with, regardless of their sex appeal.
Now that I will leave my employment soon, I wonder how I can find a lover/boyfriend outside of a workplace and move toward healthier friendship because I really feel I am just craving sex and thus only connecting with people who could satisfy that crave.

Your thought ?

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:13 pm

What state do you live in?

7Wannabe5
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:07 pm

@Bobby McGee:

I have some thoughts and a few suggestions, but I need a bit more information.

1) What has been the age range of the men you have dated?

2) What would be your typical behavior or response when you are casually approached in a public setting? For instance, you are in the produce section picking plums to put in your basket, and attractive stranger smiles and says "Those look good. "

3) Are you sure you just want companionship and hawt sex? For instance, do you have any current interest in being swept off your feet, adored or cherished?

@Kriegsspiel: The mask, perhaps, does not tend towards inviting the revelation of personal information from shy young ladies upon short acquaintance. Would like to share a little bit of information about yourself? What sort of music or books do you enjoy?

Bobby McGee
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Bobby McGee » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:22 pm

@Kriegsspiel : Where I live we call them provinces

@7Wannabe5 :

1) I will not lie, I prefer older man. Late 30's to late 40's.... could go to early 50's if immature. I am willing to work with behavioral issues of eternal bachelor. I feel little to no connection with men of my age, especially with ERE being a key to my lifestyle.

2) I back off, especially if approached by an attractive stranger. Past personal experiences had demonstrated that said attractive stranger is a) an alcoholic, pothead, whatever b) married c) gay....... I might have some work to do here to change my behavior.

3) Not 100% sure but being swept off my feet, adored or cherished doesn't sound too appealing, except for being cherished maybe. I would hate to be adored, it would mean losing my independence and/or someone being dependent on me on an emotional level, which I hate. I need space ( my precious !)

My concerns is that once I will be semi-retired, I will have plenty of time to do all sort of activities... like casual sex, hiking, documentary screening viewing, etc. These are lonely activities if your are by yourself, been there, done that. Besides, I am too young to be craving for sex and being clueless how to get it.

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Dragline
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Dragline » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:05 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
@Kriegsspiel: The mask, perhaps, does not tend towards inviting the revelation of personal information from shy young ladies upon short acquaintance. Would like to share a little bit of information about yourself? What sort of music or books do you enjoy?
He's cool. Even gave me some trekking poles for nothing. And I am sure he would share his mask. 8-)

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Riggerjack
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Riggerjack » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:16 am

That sounds like the great introvert lament. I'm not trying to trivialize you problems, I'm saying it seems to fit a pattern.

I haven't been single in over a decade, but back then there was internet dating. I was able to filter out the undesirables, went on a date, and got married 4 months later. My wife tells me my experience is not typical. It certainly hasn't worked that way for my friends.

What I can say for sure, is that introverts will always have a harder time meeting people. Toward that end, I would recommend meetups, or whatever they are called now. My wife and I did a hiking meetup back in our dating days. It was full of introverts and seemed to attract singles.

My point is there are things you want to do. Doing them with other people who are interested in the same thing gets you something to do for a few hours, while you meet strangers. Maybe it's just the romantic in me, but I'd rather hike out to a waterfall with a woman, than sit in a restaurant. Long pauses in the conversation, and taking a bit more time is more natural in such an environment. Bringing a friend along for safety is also much more acceptable, my wife reminds me...

So, maybe meeting a group of strangers and hiking out in the woods may not be the best plan for a young lady. But you get my point. You have things you are interested in. Doing those things in groups allows you to expand your social circle, and do something you enjoy.

7w5 will probably have more specific advice. Good luck.

Bobby McGee
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Re: Late Sexuality Extreme!

Post by Bobby McGee » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:01 pm

@Riggerjack : It is totally the great introvert lament. I know I need to work on this. Work on my social skills. This is one skill I want to improve while being semi-retired.
" Maybe it's just the romantic in me, but I'd rather hike out to a waterfall with a woman, than sit in a restaurant. Long pauses in the conversation, and taking a bit more time is more natural in such an environment " 100% agree. I turned down a restaurant date not so long ago because I didn't see the point and just was not interested in this person anyways.

Reminds me of an incident this fall. I went to a welding course. The instructor was quite attractive, my type of guy. I had a pony tail and it just didn't work well with the welding mask. The mask kept falling too low on my head and I couldn't see what I was doing. The instructor noticed and offered to hold my mask. I bluntly replied " No, I am fine" . I just didn't like the idea of holding a 800C melting welding rod in my hand while a cute stranger hold my mask.

@Dragline : Is this mask suitable for welding ?

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