Poverty threshold.

[johnbroker]

I find the recurring news about the poverty threshold kind of funny/annoying. Here in Spain their frequency has increased due to, I guess, the elections (it seems we will go for the third ones).
The last one reads something that around 22% of the people live under the poverty threshold, which in our case is has been established at 8.011 € per person (16.719 € for a couple with two kids). And around 30€% if material poverty is taken into account. I had to look up what they meant by material poverty. You would be poor material-wise if you check 4 items out of this list:
- Cant GO on vacations at least one week a year. it means vacations outside your home.
- Cant afford one meal with meat, chicken or fish every two days.
- Cant keep the house at an adequate temperature
- Cant face unforeseen expenses of 650€
- Have defaulted on paying the house related bills (mortage, electricity, etc.) or installements for bought items (they dont have to be house-related) during the last 12 months.
- Cant afford a car.
- Cant afford a telephone (one per member)
- Cant afford a TV (they dont specify size)
- Cant afford a washing machine.

Well, my girlfriend and I spent less that 8000€ last year (together) and afforded a car/camping van, telephones, several vacations (totalling around 2-3 months ), meat, fish and so on. Ok, house and van are fully paid. However, and being the margin so big, I wonder what this means. Are we living like the poor? Should we give more to the poor so that they can afford those things in a much less optimized way? I know the system is not and cannot be perfect but from my perspective (that of an ERE follower), the figures should change.

I am curious to know how this is in your countries and where do you stand in relation to it.

[Sclass]

Do you have the TV and washing machine?

Many of my poor friends in California (poor means they say they don't have enough when they make $80,000 of income a year) talk like this. I'm the big Scrooge this summer because I wouldn't subsidize friends and family Disneyland vacations by letting them sleep over at my home. So what happened? The kids didn't get to go to Disneyland. I ruined summer.

Really, because of $300 of motel costs I ruined summer for my nephews and nieces. I couldn't believe it. I asked if they went anywhere and they said, no they had a staycation and went to a day camp out on in their city for ghetto folks.

I realized these pals are really broke. Even though they bought a new Volvo SUV this spring. I offered to put them up at a local motel and they refused. I guess there is something classier about saying "we went to Disneyland and stayed with family" instead of "we went to Disneyland and stayed at Motel 6." These people would rather stay at the Disneyland Hotel but I guess that is more than $300.

So among my friends there are a lot of people who look great on the surface...they have a Volvo, a 50" TV and a front load washer, but they don't have any rainy day money.

It all boils down to efficiency. I've got rich friends and poor friends. Most of them waste their money in one way or another. It's the country club membership or the "Spartan" obstacle course membership. I think that's why some people like you and your girlfriend can buy a lot more life than the rest of your countrymen.

[BRUTE]

"Spartan" obstacle course membership

irony is ironic

there's definitely a quantum-the-closer-one-looks thing going on. for every definition of poverty, there's going to be a millionaire who fits in, or somebody who doesn't fit but would be considered poor by many.

it's just one of those concepts that humans can't define, but they know it when they see it. thus it has a super vague boundary and none of the criteria are necessary to meet it.

walks like poverty, sounds like poverty, looks like poverty, it's probably poverty.

the further an individual is removed from the culture defining poverty, the less likely the criteria are going to accurately define poverty for him.