Trump - Clown Genius

Should you squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle or from the end?
User avatar
bryan
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by bryan » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:06 pm

@userqname, my senators are both Republican (decent rankings, one probably wants to be President eventually) and my family also has Republican senators (extremely high ranking/influential and Trump supporters). The states are very red; if they can be flipped then impeachment is certain.

I can only do what I can do..

George the original one
Posts: 4200
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by George the original one » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:36 pm

ffj wrote:I am not arguing whether we are justified in doing this or not, but I want to point out that Obama didn't suffer mass protests when people were dying because of his presidential actions. That is important to note, as it shows that most protesters don't really have Muslim interests at heart. Rather, they are simply a vehicle to attack Trump. If they didn't care that we were killing them, then why all of a sudden do they care that they can't come into our country for 90 days?
Difference of "freedom to" vs. "freedom from". Ostensibly we're killing concentrations of terrorists & other bad actors (with minimal collateral damage) whereas terrorists are an insignificant number of immigrants.

User avatar
plantingourpennies
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:11 am
Contact:

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by plantingourpennies » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:14 pm

bryan wrote: But really, this morning (comment about Berkeley and National Prayer Time) I am done w/ Trump.
This is fascinating-what specifically about his comments on that day struck you as different?

Getting rid of the Johnson amendment was a part of his campaign platform since at least last summer and defunding public education was something that his education nominee refused to rule out in her senate hearing.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... -amendment

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congres ... le-n708171

User avatar
bryan
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by bryan » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:23 pm

plantingourpennies wrote: This is fascinating-what specifically about his comments on that day struck you
Specifically (this morning) him twisting the narrative in such a vile way. How does he manage to pit condemnation of violence and funding a beloved university against each other? Ridiculous. To threaten one of the best Universities in the country, responsible for sending out so many amazing humans that push science, technology, and society forward, for what exactly? It's like kicking your dog when the dog doesn't do anything wrong. He's exposing and stoking the divide among Americans. It's interesting to think about why he wants this chaos, but it stands on its own for being heinous.

The twisting of reality and rhetoric is just out of this world, something I've never experienced. For instance.. aren't these alt-fact/alt-right/biebtard/whatever folks the ones who have been painting all recent (non-violent) protests as riots and think cops should get in there and bust some caps/skulls? Professing freedom of speech where if they came to power it would be on the chopping block?

But really it is was just the last straw.. I don't have that many issues w/ Trump's position on election issues; more aligned w/ him across them all than I was w/ Hillary/Obama. It's how he's been (incompetently, sinisterly) going about it all (and causing too many "hidden" ill-effects that will amplify over time).

User avatar
BRUTE
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by BRUTE » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:53 pm

but surely setting the UC Berkeley campus literally on fire is worthy of condemnation?

User avatar
bryan
Posts: 629
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by bryan » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:54 pm

That's what I mean, he should be condemning the violence-lubbers along with some inspirational message or something.. not threatening the University/peaceful protesters or pitting Americans against each other. From all reports the University was completely doing the right things (despite their historical penchant for using pepper spray on people). https://twitter.com/ncweaver/status/827141794211049472

SavingWithBabies
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:50 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by SavingWithBabies » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:56 am

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/20 ... lden-bears

This is what I saw in local reports while living in the East Bay for a lot of the other protests going on in the area (further south in Oakland) -- non-violent protests turned violent by agitators.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:11 am

BRUTE wrote:but surely setting the UC Berkeley campus literally on fire is worthy of condemnation?
It absolutely does. Hopefully, they have video and can prosecute the culprits.

But, of course, Trump makes the mistake of attacking the university, that actually supported free speech and only shutdown the event because of security concerns.

On the other hand, the protesters are idiots, because this will actually draw support to the presenter. If they would have just protested and not done anything aggressive, stupid, etc. they would have made their point, but now they lost this battle. This was exactly what the presenter wanted. He didn't care about the actual event. No one that brushes against the white supremacist movement, even ever so slightly, expects to get a big event at Cal.

IlliniDave
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:04 am

Maybe I misheard, but I thought the university intended to take punitive measures against the conservative student group who invited the speaker, essentially holding them liable for the damages caused by the rioters which, if accurate, would not exactly be an act that promoted/defended a free speech environment, and is why some groups have the university in their critical sights.

Again, I have no idea if that account is accurate. I no longer believe anything I hear broadcast in any format that purports to be news, which is pretty sad--I've caught all "sides" being grossly disingenuous, if not outright dishonest, in their portrayal of events too many times. So I stick with my guitar most of the time now. It doesn't lie. When I play like $hit it sounds like $hit, and when I play well it sounds good.

User avatar
Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:22 am

On the other hand, the protesters are idiots, because this will actually draw support to the presenter.
The linked article from californiagoldenblogs said that the violent protesters were anarchists from outside campus that do this to varying degrees at any large protest. It isn't helping anything, hopefully they will be caught or stopped in the future.
Maybe I misheard, but I thought the university intended to take punitive measures against the conservative student group who invited the speaker, essentially holding them liable for the damages caused by the rioters which, if accurate, would not exactly be an act that promoted/defended a free speech environment, and is why some groups have the university in their critical sights.
Evidence of this? I could only find something about UC Irvine and College Republicans and only on Breitbart, which is propaganda.
Again, I have no idea if that account is accurate. I no longer believe anything I hear broadcast in any format that purports to be news, which is pretty sad--I've caught all "sides" being grossly disingenuous, if not outright dishonest, in their portrayal of events too many times.
Certainly every news organization has made mistakes but there is a big difference between NPR or the BBC and Breitbart. This is exactly what the people who want to control you hope you will do.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:50 am

@Gilberto
Yes, it could very well be anarchists, as they have been linked to other events like this.
https://www.thenation.com/article/anti- ... e-streets/
But, it really doesn't matter. 95% of the population won't do enough research to understand the difference between the majority of the protesters and these people. Everyone thinks these protesters are always an organized group with a chain of command, but mostly they are not. Bad actors always take advantage of this cover.

This appears to document the anarchist anti-fascist group. Per the Berkeley police Chief:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html
On Thursday, UC Berkeley Police Chief Margo Bennett blamed the problems on so-called black bloc protesters who marched onto campus in military fashion, brandishing clubs, high-grade fireworks, baseball bats and homemade shields.

“We had a controlled environment up until the moment when the black bloc arrived,” Bennett said.

Black bloc protesters, who dress in all black and keep their faces covered with bandannas, have become a fixture of Bay Area demonstrations in the past decade, particularly in Oakland. They tend to attach themselves to peaceful protests before breaking out to start shattering windows and vandalizing property.
@IlliniDave
I did a quick search for "university of california to punish conservative student group" along with a few variations of that and found nothing relating to the event at Cal.

It appears the conservative group themselves canceled the event:
The cancellation of his talk at UC Davis sparked debate about the limits of free speech and hate speech. Davis College Republicans decided it was unsafe to continue the event after a large number of protesters blocked access to the venue, according to a release from the school.
And, Berkley admin was letting it go on:
So far, the UC system has resisted calls to cancel Yiannopoulos’ talks. At noon, just hours before Wednesday’s event, Berkeley administrators issued a statement saying they were committed to tolerance as well as free speech.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Other large news organizations like NBC and Fox both just said, "UC Berkely cancels event", but that sounds like lazy reporting. Not that it couldn't have been the school. The police were probably pushing for it to be canceled after that group showed up, but by not being more specific NBC and others just sound like they didn't do the work.

User avatar
Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Gilberto de Piento » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:21 am

I have a story that somewhat relates to this issue that I just remembered. I was involved in a peaceful protest where, after a few days, some people showed up who did their best to start a fight with the protesters. One agitator would get in the face of a protester, insult them with some really foul commentary, and try to get the protester to push or hit them. The interesting thing is that when this happened there was always the same person filming the action. It was an organized effort to try to incite violence and get it on video in order to make the protesters look violent.

I don't have any evidence of this, just a personal anecdote.

IlliniDave
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by IlliniDave » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:51 am

Gilberto de Piento wrote: Certainly every news organization has made mistakes but there is a big difference between NPR or the BBC and Breitbart. This is exactly what the people who want to control you hope you will do.
I've never listened to or read a word from Breitbart or his organization (though I have heard Ben Shapiro a few times who was at one time associated with them I believe). What I heard was an audio clip someone at work played for me from a prominent conservative commentator (who repeatedly declares he is not a journalist, but a commentator, and is not Rush or Drudge) who is openly partisan. Two years ago I would have believed he would have the facts reasonably correct even when I thought he was off in the weeds with his interpretation/opinion on them. Now I don't know. And as I opened with, I also might have misheard what he was saying because I really was only half-listening out of politeness.

I listen to NPR every day but my faith in their objectivity is swirling in the bowl and all but flushed away. But they are still better than most. The main problem is their editorial decisions on what to cover as "news". It gets to be spin by omission/imbalance. It's worse from the MSM. Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it didn't happen (and sometimes the converse).

That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate. That the campus police shut down the event once things got out of hand is understandable from a safety perspective, though arguably security could have been more proactive. UC Berkley aside, the event doesn't speak well of tolerance for differing viewpoints in our country at this time. Milo Y is a blatant agitator, but it's not like the same sort of agitation isn't coming from some facets of the other side (he's really just a copycat, IMO).

I'd meant to stay away from this thread/topic. I hopefully won't backslide again. :) My guitar calls ...

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:05 pm

Yes, this will bring everyone together.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/02/m ... -amendment

User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:44 am

IlliniDave wrote: That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate.
I think Trump knows who his people are, and some of them do have a bone to pick with UC Berkeley. To people in the midwest (well, a couple conversations at the brewpub I was at tonight), the UC Berkleyans are a bunch of 'hippieliberalfaggots' who don't let other people hear differing viewpoints. There's obviously some commonsense truth to this. If this Milo dude wants to talk to people who want to hear him, it's pretty shitty of people to prevent that.

IlliniDave
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by IlliniDave » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:48 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
IlliniDave wrote: That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate.
I think Trump knows who his people are, and some of them do have a bone to pick with UC Berkeley. To people in the midwest (well, a couple conversations at the brewpub I was at tonight), the UC Berkleyans are a bunch of 'hippieliberalfaggots' who don't let other people hear differing viewpoints. There's obviously some commonsense truth to this. If this Milo dude wants to talk to people who want to hear him, it's pretty shitty of people to prevent that.
What part of the Midwest are you in? That sounds quite unlike the Midwest I am a native of. I currently live in a southern state and they'll only go so far as to dismissively refer to a place like UC Berkley as a bunch of communists :) . Milo Y is an interesting character who appears to be on a crusade to adopt some of the left's recent rhetorical tactics and leverage his "status" as an openly gay conservative. I don't see where he adds a ton of value to the discussion, but I agree it's sad to see people silenced via violence or threats of violence. I think all three of his scheduled appearances on UC-system campuses were ultimately shut down one way or another. The great irony is that the side that accuses the other side of fascism sees that as a victory.

Campitor
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:12 am

Chad wrote:Yes, this will bring everyone together.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/02/m ... -amendment
Personally I feel the Johnson Amendment should be repealed because it limits free speech and is selectively enforced. Depending on the party in charge, they often selectively use this amendment to stifle political speeches for Churches but not organizations like Planned Parenthood and visa-versa. The loss of tax exempt status leaves an organization vulnerable to retribution via punitive taxes and fines - an organization could be taxed out of existence. Repealing this law would mean Planned Parenthood could openly advocate for candidates that support its mission and Churches can advocate for candidates that support theirs without fear of retaliatory tax burdens. This law needs to go and it should be a bipartisan effort.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... d-legisla/
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/planne ... democrats/

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:14 am

That would be fine, except the religious side is always trying to force others to live how they live. For example, Planned Parenthood does not force anyone to have an abortion or use birth control, while the religious side wants to force people not too.

This is a huge difference.

Campitor
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:29 am

Chad wrote:That would be fine, except the religious side is always trying to force others to live how they live. For example, Planned Parenthood does not force anyone to have an abortion or use birth control, while the religious side wants to force people not too.

This is a huge difference.
I agree that it is a huge difference which is why the power of Johnson amendment shouldn't be available to anyone. As long as it's a law, it will be abused regardless if one side abuses it more than the other.
Last edited by Campitor on Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:38 am

This has nothing to do with Dodd-Frank.

User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:48 am

IlliniDave wrote:
Kriegsspiel wrote:
IlliniDave wrote: That said, in hindsight I shouldn't have mentioned it, and I'll apologize for that. It seemed to provide some insight into why some folks have a bone to pick with Berkley. But again it might not be accurate.
I think Trump knows who his people are, and some of them do have a bone to pick with UC Berkeley. To people in the midwest (well, a couple conversations at the brewpub I was at tonight), the UC Berkleyans are a bunch of 'hippieliberalfaggots' who don't let other people hear differing viewpoints. There's obviously some commonsense truth to this. If this Milo dude wants to talk to people who want to hear him, it's pretty shitty of people to prevent that.
What part of the Midwest are you in? That sounds quite unlike the Midwest I am a native of. I currently live in a southern state and they'll only go so far as to dismissively refer to a place like UC Berkley as a bunch of communists :) . Milo Y is an interesting character who appears to be on a crusade to adopt some of the left's recent rhetorical tactics and leverage his "status" as an openly gay conservative. I don't see where he adds a ton of value to the discussion, but I agree it's sad to see people silenced via violence or threats of violence. I think all three of his scheduled appearances on UC-system campuses were ultimately shut down one way or another. The great irony is that the side that accuses the other side of fascism sees that as a victory.
Cincinnati. I'm sure people who politely disparage while sober get more enthusiastic in their cups. In vino veritas. I am not familiar with this Milo dude, but I don't think it's a good idea to try to suppress viewpoints and information in general.

Campitor
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:31 am

Chad wrote:This has nothing to do with Dodd-Frank.
Fixed - I had Dodd-Frank on my mind from another thread. Thanks for pointing it out.

User avatar
JohnnyH
Posts: 2007
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: Rockies

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by JohnnyH » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:44 am

bryan wrote:That's what I mean, he should be condemning the violence-lubbers along with some inspirational message or something.. not threatening the University/peaceful protesters or pitting Americans against each other. From all reports the University was completely doing the right things (despite their historical penchant for using pepper spray on people). https://twitter.com/ncweaver/status/827141794211049472
Dozens of UCB police caught standing around in UC while rioters destroy businesses and beat people say otherwise.

Campitor
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Campitor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:49 pm

JohnnyH wrote:
bryan wrote:That's what I mean, he should be condemning the violence-lubbers along with some inspirational message or something.. not threatening the University/peaceful protesters or pitting Americans against each other. From all reports the University was completely doing the right things (despite their historical penchant for using pepper spray on people). https://twitter.com/ncweaver/status/827141794211049472
Dozens of UCB police caught standing around in UC while rioters destroy businesses and beat people say otherwise.
The videos I watched showed the Police weren't perturbed by the games of human piñata but did intervene once the ATMs started being desecrated and merchant materials were used as bonfire fuel. I imagine tear-gas and water cannons would have been deployed if a Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme was attacked.

User avatar
Chad
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Trump - Clown Genius

Post by Chad » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:51 pm

Campitor wrote:
Chad wrote:This has nothing to do with Dodd-Frank.
Fixed - I had Dodd-Frank on my mind from another thread. Thanks for pointing it out.
I kind of assumed, but wasn't 100% sure.

Post Reply