Was anyone surprised by the extent of the election tsunami that rolled across the country Tuesday evening? The D's lost at least 60 House seats and maybe up to 70. I had predicted 45-50 seats flipping to the D's. Even PA swung to the R's. Wow.
djc
PS This isn't meant to be a discussion of the pro's and con's of each party---just a discussion of the results.
Election surprise.......
I agree with JohnnyH. People are desperate and don't know what to do. Bush and Republicans failed so they voted in Obama and Democrats. Then Obama and Democrats failed, so they voted in Republicans.
I do like it when the legilative branch and executive branch are opposing parties. Maybe now that the Republicans control the House both sides will have to work together a litle more. One can hope.
I do like it when the legilative branch and executive branch are opposing parties. Maybe now that the Republicans control the House both sides will have to work together a litle more. One can hope.
I was not at all surprised by the "Red Revolution". People in America are running scared by the losses of their prosperity, or at least that is what they see. The economy crashed for many people in 2008. As discussed on this forum, the insane spending of both government and the people brought this on. One word, "Greed" to the max.
I agree with JohnnyH about the war drums. I can hear them beating now. The Repubs will think diving into a "good shootin' war will bring jobs and take our minds off the State of the Union. It is best to have something to rally all the people around, and make them forget their McMansions are being foreclosed on. The Repubs want a repeat of the prosperity following WWII.
As djc said in the OP, this is not about the aspects of the two parties, so I won't go there, and probably people who have read my prior posts would not want me to anyway!! I really don't think anyone wants this forum to become a political and moral soapbox.
I agree with JohnnyH about the war drums. I can hear them beating now. The Repubs will think diving into a "good shootin' war will bring jobs and take our minds off the State of the Union. It is best to have something to rally all the people around, and make them forget their McMansions are being foreclosed on. The Repubs want a repeat of the prosperity following WWII.
As djc said in the OP, this is not about the aspects of the two parties, so I won't go there, and probably people who have read my prior posts would not want me to anyway!! I really don't think anyone wants this forum to become a political and moral soapbox.
I'm Canadian, but when I look South of the border at the US political system, it always strikes me as odd that there are only two parties that collectively garner 100% of the vote. Sure, there are third-party candidates, but their percentage of the vote is negligible.
Democrat or Republican, does it really make a difference? Will either bring any significant positive change?
From my limited viewpoint, I see that Dem and Rep are essentially the same. Both cater to the interests of the rich (lobbyists) and do whatever they can to buy votes.
I think neither republican nor democrat will change things; thus, I would have voted "none of the above" or abstained if I had to choose between them. Ideally, I would vote for a fringe or third-party candidate that appeals to me. Ralph Nader anyone? Ron Paul?
Democrat or Republican, does it really make a difference? Will either bring any significant positive change?
From my limited viewpoint, I see that Dem and Rep are essentially the same. Both cater to the interests of the rich (lobbyists) and do whatever they can to buy votes.
I think neither republican nor democrat will change things; thus, I would have voted "none of the above" or abstained if I had to choose between them. Ideally, I would vote for a fringe or third-party candidate that appeals to me. Ralph Nader anyone? Ron Paul?
-
AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
What's surprising is that California bucked the national trend. It looks as if all our statewide offices will be D, and we re-elected Boxer to the Senate.
The really interesting outcome is that voters have restored the majority vote to pass a budget (from 2/3s supermajority); but they have closed off revenue spigots from a state park fee (Prop. 20), a prohibition on borrowing from local tax revenues (Prop. 22), a repeal of business taxes (Prop. 24), and a new 2/3 vote requirement on state & local fees (Prop. 26). So, it will be easier to pass a budget, but harder to increase the revenue side of the equation. Future battles over spending priorities, e.g. education versus water infrastructure, will be even more hellacious.
It's TEOTWAWKI. We are either the first state to dive into the abyss of an economic death spiral, or we will be the vangard of some new, green-economy, next-stage society.
The really interesting outcome is that voters have restored the majority vote to pass a budget (from 2/3s supermajority); but they have closed off revenue spigots from a state park fee (Prop. 20), a prohibition on borrowing from local tax revenues (Prop. 22), a repeal of business taxes (Prop. 24), and a new 2/3 vote requirement on state & local fees (Prop. 26). So, it will be easier to pass a budget, but harder to increase the revenue side of the equation. Future battles over spending priorities, e.g. education versus water infrastructure, will be even more hellacious.
It's TEOTWAWKI. We are either the first state to dive into the abyss of an economic death spiral, or we will be the vangard of some new, green-economy, next-stage society.
Not surprised at all. If the country sees the current party failing they swing the other way and hope for the best. There is no meaningful difference between the 2 parties anyway, business as usual in Washington will continue. Much like those in DC, voters cannot think long-term.
Obama is really screwed now, even if the economy/jobs does improve, everyone will think it is the Republican wave that drove the change. He had his shot to really stick it to Wall Street after the bailouts and show he was on Main Street's side, but failed.
Obama is really screwed now, even if the economy/jobs does improve, everyone will think it is the Republican wave that drove the change. He had his shot to really stick it to Wall Street after the bailouts and show he was on Main Street's side, but failed.
Count me another one not surprised. People are angry, and I imagine they'll keep changing their mind until the economy improves.
Maus: I'm not sure what other people are thinking, but my philosophy on propositions is that they are almost always a bad idea. Only fundamental changes should warrant a full-blown constitutional amendment. Thus, Props. 20, 23, and 24 are all issues that should really be evaluated and effected by the legislature, if appropriate. However, Prop. 25 actually enables the legislature to get stuff done. It seems like the kind of thing that is more appropriate to put into our constitution (despite the extra details).
Maus: I'm not sure what other people are thinking, but my philosophy on propositions is that they are almost always a bad idea. Only fundamental changes should warrant a full-blown constitutional amendment. Thus, Props. 20, 23, and 24 are all issues that should really be evaluated and effected by the legislature, if appropriate. However, Prop. 25 actually enables the legislature to get stuff done. It seems like the kind of thing that is more appropriate to put into our constitution (despite the extra details).
The Ds deserved to lose for many reasons.
1. Obama got the nomination from Clinton because his anti war position was farther to the left. This is something that disproportionately appealed to primary voters but they pick the candidate. He is now doing pretty much what Bush was doing and Mccain probably would have continued to do. This helped to kill motivation of the left.
2. He compromised so much on the health care bill, that people on the left hated it as much as people on the right. This again helped to kill motivation of the left.
3. He and the Ds failed to bring extension of the Bush tax cuts for people making less than 250k to a vote before the election. This makes no sense to me as the Rs could not filibuster this right before the election. Another broken promise to kill motivation of the left.
4. Whether you were for it or not, a large portion of the stimulus was an $800 tax credit for families and a $400 tax credit for individuals. Very few people seemed to know this.
5. During the original bailout, the Rs and Ds both agreed to come up with a certain number of votes. When the Rs did not come up with the needed votes, the Ds bailed them out along with Wall street. This was GWB's mess but the Ds managed to put themselves in a lose/lose political position.
I do not see much difference between the Rs and Ds except for the rhetoric so it make little difference to me who wins.
1. Obama got the nomination from Clinton because his anti war position was farther to the left. This is something that disproportionately appealed to primary voters but they pick the candidate. He is now doing pretty much what Bush was doing and Mccain probably would have continued to do. This helped to kill motivation of the left.
2. He compromised so much on the health care bill, that people on the left hated it as much as people on the right. This again helped to kill motivation of the left.
3. He and the Ds failed to bring extension of the Bush tax cuts for people making less than 250k to a vote before the election. This makes no sense to me as the Rs could not filibuster this right before the election. Another broken promise to kill motivation of the left.
4. Whether you were for it or not, a large portion of the stimulus was an $800 tax credit for families and a $400 tax credit for individuals. Very few people seemed to know this.
5. During the original bailout, the Rs and Ds both agreed to come up with a certain number of votes. When the Rs did not come up with the needed votes, the Ds bailed them out along with Wall street. This was GWB's mess but the Ds managed to put themselves in a lose/lose political position.
I do not see much difference between the Rs and Ds except for the rhetoric so it make little difference to me who wins.
"4. Whether you were for it or not, a large portion of the stimulus was an $800 tax credit for families and a $400 tax credit for individuals. Very few people seemed to know this."
First I have heard of a tax credit. It must not have been advertised, and that seems odd. The public likes being thrown a bone now and then. Your right, I was one that was not aware of it.
First I have heard of a tax credit. It must not have been advertised, and that seems odd. The public likes being thrown a bone now and then. Your right, I was one that was not aware of it.
-
AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
I don't get why the Dems didn't run on the things they DID accomplish.
I don't get why the Dems didn't run on the things they DID accomplish.
You even had to file an extra form as far as I remember.I am absolutely unshocked that incumbents are getting their asses kicked. I wish it went further. The only way to get rid of the current stale ideas in Washington being barfed up by Ds and Rs alike is to get rid of the existing power structure.
@gibberade - its hard to be a Canadian knocking the American system, they are really very different. You have to spend some time here to appreciate how different the factions are amongst themselves. In Canada you lose your job if you don't vote along party lines unless a vote is declared a free vote (i.e. 70% of votes are not free), so it really swallows up differences within the party. John McCain a few years back really was a maverick for instance...
Besides in two of our branches we run a "no-party" system, i.e. our senate where the senators are named by the party in power... and our executive branch, the governer-general, where the prime minister tells the Queen who to take.
Some would argue that we in Canada are the ones with the democracy deficiency. There are no checks and balances, Jean Cretchien de-criminalized marijuana on a whim and shoved it down his own parties throat.
I love that the Senate was intentionally designed to "slow-down" legislation, populism is not a great way to govern - http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/his ... reated.htm
@gibberade - its hard to be a Canadian knocking the American system, they are really very different. You have to spend some time here to appreciate how different the factions are amongst themselves. In Canada you lose your job if you don't vote along party lines unless a vote is declared a free vote (i.e. 70% of votes are not free), so it really swallows up differences within the party. John McCain a few years back really was a maverick for instance...
Besides in two of our branches we run a "no-party" system, i.e. our senate where the senators are named by the party in power... and our executive branch, the governer-general, where the prime minister tells the Queen who to take.
Some would argue that we in Canada are the ones with the democracy deficiency. There are no checks and balances, Jean Cretchien de-criminalized marijuana on a whim and shoved it down his own parties throat.
I love that the Senate was intentionally designed to "slow-down" legislation, populism is not a great way to govern - http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/his ... reated.htm
@alexoliver - why didn't the dems ride on what they did??? To quote the Bill Clinton campaign.... "its the economy stupid"
People tend not to care about legislative battles and bank reform when they can't get jobs. Unemployment has not gotten better under the dems.
(also, please excuse my use of stupid... I'm not really calling you stupid it was just a well-timed quote)
People tend not to care about legislative battles and bank reform when they can't get jobs. Unemployment has not gotten better under the dems.
(also, please excuse my use of stupid... I'm not really calling you stupid it was just a well-timed quote)
-
AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
Sorry, I meant if you were a politician. Most votes in our "congress" (house of commons) are whipped, i.e. you have to vote along party lines. If you don't you are ejected from your party. Whipping is very strict in Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Whip_%28Canada%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Whip_%28Canada%29
I've read "Sarah Palin's Tea Party" in articles by more than one author today... Not sure if I want to scream, laugh or puke.
Establishment R (w/ help of MSM) seems to have completed phagocitosis of the Tea Party, and in only a matter of months.
Hm, last time R had control fed govt tripled, the dollar lost 40% and socialism took root (w/ TARP). Not to mention the wars that are a stain on American integrity...
Let's hope they do better this time!
Establishment R (w/ help of MSM) seems to have completed phagocitosis of the Tea Party, and in only a matter of months.
Hm, last time R had control fed govt tripled, the dollar lost 40% and socialism took root (w/ TARP). Not to mention the wars that are a stain on American integrity...
Let's hope they do better this time!