The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

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workathome
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The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by workathome »

The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250K a Day If It Didn't Join PRISM

Yahoo challenged the government requests several times, citing the limits of the U.S. Constitution, but was denied in the Foreign Intelligence Court of Review, the "secret courts" that oversee surveillance requests regarding national security. The repeated denials, plus the threat of losing $250,000 a day, forced Yahoo to comply with the NSA's PRISM program.

http://gizmodo.com/the-nsa-was-going-to ... socialflow

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Secret courts and secret fines if you don't obey, or if you tell anyone... seems legit :roll:

SimpleLife
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by SimpleLife »

Yep. The founding fatherrs would be rolling over in their graves.

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jennypenny
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jennypenny »

WaPo's article on the topic http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html

^^This is what Americans should be worried about.

Not to throw the Boomers under the bus again, but I can't believe the generation that burned flags and bras and draft cards is just rolling over and letting this happen. Is it that they don't really understand the implications?

Another disturbing aspect (to me) is that such important court decisions can occur off the radar.


From the article ...
The U.S. government threatened to fine Yahoo $250,000 a day in 2008 if it failed to comply with a broad demand to hand over user communications — a request the company believed was unconstitutional — according to court documents unsealed Thursday that illuminate how federal officials forced American tech companies to participate in the National Security Agency’s controversial PRISM program.

...

Central to the case was whether the Protect America Act overstepped constitutional bounds, particularly the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant. An early Yahoo filing said the case was “of tremendous national importance. The issues at stake in this litigation are the most serious issues that this Nation faces today — to what extent must the privacy rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution yield to protect our national security.”

The appeals court, however, ruled that the government had put in place adequate safeguards to avoid constitutional violations.

“We caution that our decision does not constitute an endorsement of broad-based, indiscriminate executive power,” the court wrote on Aug. 22, 2008. “Rather, our decision recognizes that where the government has instituted several layers of serviceable safeguards to protect individuals against unwarranted harms and to minimize incidental intrusions, its efforts to protect national security should not be frustrated by the courts. This is such a case.”

Last edited by jennypenny on Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chad
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Chad »

jennypenny wrote:This is what American's should be worried about.

Not to throw the Boomers under the bus again, but I can't believe the generation that burned flags and bras and draft cards is just rolling over and letting this happen. Is it that they don't really understand the implications?

Another disturbing aspect (to me) is that such important court decisions can occur off the radar.
[/i]
I couldn't agree more. It's not even that I don't think there should be some method/vehicle for the intelligence community to gather certain types of data, as a case can be made that it could be very helpful in certain instances. It's that it's done (the why and some of the how) in complete secrecy from the public and they have managed to circumvent most, if not all, of the checks and balances that have been put in place. How long until the NSA is headed by a modern day version of J. Edgar Hoover? It's bound to happen, and that's a tame scenario.

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GandK
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by GandK »

Chad wrote:It's not even that I don't think there should be some method/vehicle for the intelligence community to gather certain types of data, as a case can be made that it could be very helpful in certain instances. It's that it's done (the why and some of the how) in complete secrecy from the public and they have managed to circumvent most, if not all, of the checks and balances that have been put in place. How long until the NSA is headed by a modern day version of J. Edgar Hoover? It's bound to happen, and that's a tame scenario.
+2. To me, this is THE strongest argument for limited government. It only takes one Hoover/Hitler. And if you've tied the public's hands against them before that person even comes to power, game over.

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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jacob »

jennypenny wrote: Not to throw the Boomers under the bus again, but I can't believe the generation that burned flags and bras and draft cards is just rolling over and letting this happen. Is it that they don't really understand the implications?
I suspect they don't understand the technological implications. My parents are still reluctant to "get on the google", still use brick and mortar travel agencies, and keep asking me "which button to push" when the sound isn't on, etc. They might very well understand the political implications [of an invasive state security apparatus], but they definitely do not understand the technological capability that's now available.

chicago81
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by chicago81 »

jacob wrote:
jennypenny wrote: Not to throw the Boomers under the bus again, but I can't believe the generation that burned flags and bras and draft cards is just rolling over and letting this happen. Is it that they don't really understand the implications?
I suspect they don't understand the technological implications. My parents are still reluctant to "get on the google", still use brick and mortar travel agencies, and keep asking me "which button to push" when the sound isn't on, etc. They might very well understand the political implications [of an invasive state security apparatus], but they definitely do not understand the technological capability that's now available.
I think it may also have to do with how people's minds change as they age. I've observed (in others and in myself), that as people age, they become more and more complacent. Of course, I'm still young enough to be absolutely outraged by the ways this country has changed (with respect to personal rights and freedoms) over the past decade and a half. ;)

Chad
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Chad »

jacob wrote:
jennypenny wrote: Not to throw the Boomers under the bus again, but I can't believe the generation that burned flags and bras and draft cards is just rolling over and letting this happen. Is it that they don't really understand the implications?
I suspect they don't understand the technological implications. My parents are still reluctant to "get on the google", still use brick and mortar travel agencies, and keep asking me "which button to push" when the sound isn't on, etc. They might very well understand the political implications [of an invasive state security apparatus], but they definitely do not understand the technological capability that's now available.
This is very true and ties into Chicago's point. They don't understand it and half of them think computers/internet is magic. Part of the reason they think this is because the tech wave hit right when they were old enough to start being complacent, as chicago points out. Of course, not all of them are like this, but the majority are.

I would also point out that they never really were the agents of change they claimed to be. They were at best 18 when the 1964 Civil Rights act was passed. Most of them didn't really become adults until the early 70's. While a few on-campus protests had some influence, it really wasn't them that made the changes. They may have finished off this era, but they definitely didn't start it or accomplish the meat of it. I don't mind bashing boomers at all, unlike Jenny.

Tyler9000
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Tyler9000 »

jennypenny wrote: Not to throw the Boomers under the bus again, but I can't believe the generation that burned flags and bras and draft cards is just rolling over and letting this happen. Is it that they don't really understand the implications?
For all the noise and fury, most protests are fundamentally about tribe affiliation and nothing more. This applies to every generation.

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jennypenny
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jennypenny »

The latest privacy hoopla, this time with Uber. This story is disturbing on so many levels for me. The arrogance is astounding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html


It's hard for the tech companies to point fingers at the government when they are harvesting the same info and invading people's privacy.

Chad
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Chad »

jennypenny wrote:The latest privacy hoopla, this time with Uber. This story is disturbing on so many levels for me. The arrogance is astounding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html


It's hard for the tech companies to point fingers at the government when they are harvesting the same info and invading people's privacy.
It is surprising how insulated C-suite/high level government people can get. The funny thing is that these journalists are not in anyway preventing Uber from growing, so why is he even worried about this? Even if this was an acceptable practice, it would be a waste of resources.

JamesR
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by JamesR »

I had the thought that the government was becoming more conservative in the last 10 years as a reflection of the ageing boomer demographic. I think that boomers are far more conservative now, and also seem to tend towards trivializing privacy concerns with the attitude of "I've got nothing to hide" nowadays.

Riggerjack
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Riggerjack »

The latest privacy hoopla, this time with Uber. This story is disturbing on so many levels for me. The arrogance is astounding
The difference for me is force. Uber revealing where I spent the night on a Facebook page could be embarrassing. Government applying quarter million dollar fines daily, on companies not complying with secret policies, is another thing all together.
The consequences of abuse are in different leagues. Revealing my prescription history, vs SWAT raid, for instance.

Personally, I have nothing to hide, but I dropped Pandora over the Skynet level access their app required. There is just no way that more that targeted marketing will improve my life. The different permissions similar apps require is amusing. Of course you need access to my accounts to use the camera flash LED as a flashlight!

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GandK
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by GandK »

JamesR wrote:I think that boomers are far more conservative now, and also seem to tend towards trivializing privacy concerns with the attitude of "I've got nothing to hide" nowadays.
I feel that way myself sometimes. Then I remember how subjective the notion of "privacy" is. And how it's really about control.

My desire is to present to others only the information about myself that will maintain my current social standing or enhance it. Also, I want to gather information about others that will further this aim or protect my own status.

Others have similar goals. And sometimes people think the easiest way to raise oneself is to level the playing field by bring others down. (e.g. the 2002 study, Are People Willing to Pay to Reduce Others’ Incomes? TL;DR... yes they are).

And businesses, of course, want as much data as possible about everyone, because there may be something in there that they can sell and thereby raise themselves up. But they don't want all their own data to be visible to the same degree (corporate secrets! copyrights! etc.). A competitor might bring them down. So they're basically dancing the same status dance as individuals.

So... we all want to gather as much information as we like about others, which could help us rise, while controlling the ability of others to see things about us that might hold us back or harm us (or in the case of companies, manipulate us into spending).

To me, the privacy fight is not about privacy at all. It's about saying I get to be the one to decide. I wish more people saw it that way. We might make more headway. Most people don't seem to think they have anything of substance to hide. As long as debates are framed that way, it sounds like anyone in favor of privacy is up to something shady.

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jennypenny
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jennypenny »

I read Data and Goliath by Bruce Schneier today. Has anyone read it? I liked it, but he's preaching to the choir with me. I liked his definition of privacy and the many examples he gave of what's going on. I recommend it to anyone interested in this topic. Schneier talks about intelligence data mining as well as more pedestrian data mining like that done for advertising. He does a good job of explaining the details and history of the subject. We've talked about a lot of it here, but it was enjoyable* to read it all pulled together into a cohesive narrative. Two caveats if you want to read it: (1) Schneier has a definite POV (pro-Snowden, anti-surveillance), so FYI if that might annoy someone; and (2) it's very US-centric, although he does discuss policies and practices around the world.

* "Enjoyable is a tough word to use in this case. I'm glad I read it, but it makes me want to unplug permanently.

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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jacob »

Of course unplugging makes you suspect ;-)

Only members of the Inner Party are allowed to turn off their telescreen or somehow, accidentally, lose their emails along with the backup of said emails when convenient.

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jennypenny
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jennypenny »

Haha. It also really heightened my fear of a cashless society because it would remove another way to opt out of surveillance. Cash transactions don't feed the data beast.

Chad
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Chad »

Most people probably realize now that Google data mines, but I doubt most realize how important it is for other tech companies. For instance, selling stuff will end up being Amazon's secondary business.
jennypenny wrote: (2) it's very US-centric, although he does discuss policies and practices around the world.
The US isn't the world?

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jennypenny
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by jennypenny »

WTF??? https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtissilv ... ebb86d4303

What could possibly go wrong when you put a camera/scanner that's connected to the internet in your bedroom and bathroom? :roll: As far as I'm concerned, you can throw anyone who'd willingly buy a device like that onto the stupid pile.

The world has officially become a GenXer's worst nightmare. :(

Chad
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Re: The NSA Was Going to Fine Yahoo $250k/day

Post by Chad »

I was surprised when I saw this. It has a giant flashing neon sign just begging for it to be abused. All the porn will now be amateur porn stolen from these devices, so we will have to find new jobs for that industry.

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