Wow, this is a powerful concept. I never really thought about drawing a line based on a threshold of high functionality, which is probably somewhere around 75-80 too. Will have to think on it.NPV wrote:The article puts forth many valid arguments for not aiming to prolong life beyond the threshold of high functionality.apocryphal wrote:http://www.theatlantic.com/features/arc ... 75/379329/
tldr; Doctor says "Seventy-five years is all I want to live. I want to celebrate my life while I am still in my prime."
what's your end of life strategy?
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
I am in my hometown right now, dealing with this issue firsthand. (Crafting an end of life strategy.)
At 1:00 pm today I will attend a family meeting about whether to encourage my 87yo grandfather to go through rehab for his broken hip (which he dreads), or whether to encourage him to go to a nursing home or hospice instead because, unbeknownst to him, he also has a cancerous mass in his chest. And if he does get mobile and strong again via rehab, he would then move straight on to cancer treatments. How much to tell him, and when, seeing as how his current medical treatment has addled his thoughts, is the question. He had no clear plan. We are all now guessing at what he wants.
Complicating matters is the erratic behavior of his (second, unrelated to any of us) wife, who has been running around the hospital like a chicken with her head cut off, alternating between freaking out about his perhaps impending death and trying like mad to alter their prenup in her own financial favor. And ruining all her (until this very loving) relationships with her entire stepfamily in the process.
I am not looking forward to this in the slightest. It's been a hell of a week.
At 1:00 pm today I will attend a family meeting about whether to encourage my 87yo grandfather to go through rehab for his broken hip (which he dreads), or whether to encourage him to go to a nursing home or hospice instead because, unbeknownst to him, he also has a cancerous mass in his chest. And if he does get mobile and strong again via rehab, he would then move straight on to cancer treatments. How much to tell him, and when, seeing as how his current medical treatment has addled his thoughts, is the question. He had no clear plan. We are all now guessing at what he wants.
Complicating matters is the erratic behavior of his (second, unrelated to any of us) wife, who has been running around the hospital like a chicken with her head cut off, alternating between freaking out about his perhaps impending death and trying like mad to alter their prenup in her own financial favor. And ruining all her (until this very loving) relationships with her entire stepfamily in the process.
I am not looking forward to this in the slightest. It's been a hell of a week.
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
@ GandK: It depends: are you the most appropriate member of your grandfather to discuss this with him? It should be the one how is most close to him in empathy and sympathy I think, who can discuss the situation with him. Who can gauge if it is good or not to let him know about the cancer. So that your grandfather is the person who can decide how to proceed.
And if you are not the closest one to him, let it then to the other, but never discuss it with him with more than one I think unless there is no different approach, that would be too confusing.
(When my father died, my mother was in a state of denial, and other siblings of mine not so close with him. So I choose to stay with him in the hospital, what later appeared to be his last day)
And if you are not the closest one to him, let it then to the other, but never discuss it with him with more than one I think unless there is no different approach, that would be too confusing.
(When my father died, my mother was in a state of denial, and other siblings of mine not so close with him. So I choose to stay with him in the hospital, what later appeared to be his last day)
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Riggerjack
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Re: what's your end of life strategy?
I do. This isn't such a difficult thing that with a bit of intent, someone couldn't figure it out with a Google search. But I won't put it out in the open. Suicides tend to be rash, and not be concerned with the consequences of their actions. My plan calls for creating the circumstances of my death, and at least as importantly, resolving those circumstances harmlessly afterward.Do you know of any non-ugly ways to die?
Insulin doesn't make for a nice death. The body desperately trying to burn all the sugars is not a peaceful prospect. I'm not sure adding sleeping pills would make it more so, internally. I know percocet gives me very vivid dreams of pain that I can't wake from. I would be afraid insulin and sleeping pills would be worse.
@gandk, I'm sorry about your week. Resolving this beforehand was my reason for starting this thread. Not that it does you any good now. Good luck, and try not to get caught up in any unnecessary drama.
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
+1. I think someone needs to tell your father about the cancer. Probably someone who is not a family member. Even if he is not entirely coherent, its better to get it all out there on the table.Riggerjack wrote: @gandk, I'm sorry about your week. Resolving this beforehand was my reason for starting this thread. Not that it does you any good now. Good luck, and try not to get caught up in any unnecessary drama.
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
Sailing canoe across Lake Superior.
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
Isle Royale IS kind of like heaven, isn't it?
But I am suddenly reminded of this song as a allegory of reflection on a lifetime and losing one's memories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8IwBlgxyss
But I am suddenly reminded of this song as a allegory of reflection on a lifetime and losing one's memories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8IwBlgxyss
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
hyperventilation-induced shallow water blackout in a bathtub full of water
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
It's really interesting reading the posts here. I guess we want to control everything.
My mom has been declining mentally for six years now.
Whatever she might have wanted before doesn't mean much now.
She told me many times she didn't want to live with dementia when I was a little kid. Ok? So who does? Then we should sign a little piece of paper that says just that. Then what? We go out and procure the anti dementia pills for her and administer them when it spins out?
She was stubborn and suspicious of me as she slipped into the fog. So any plans we could have made were not made. Regardless, I've pretty much taken over.
She did give away $250,000 to scammers. It happens. she never wanted me to have responsibility over her money. My dad made it difficult for me too. He was afraid he couldn't control me if I held all the money. So he started dolling it out to me dollar by dollar as expenses came up. He questioned every expense. He wanted me to be his employee. His only ER child...the last guy who would be somebody's employee.
So dad and mom wanted to control everything so much they started losing things. Dad recently asked me where all of mom's art collection had gone to. Stolen I told him. He said we kids took it. Nope. Caregivers and home repair folks stripped anything of value long ago. He was mad. I told him if he wanted to keep any of that stuff he should have taken it. He asked why I hadn't taken it. I reminded him he accused us of "stealing" their things whenever we removed an item from the home - even a childhood toy. And that is the funny thing. They clung to things so hard that they eventually started losing them.
Dad scolded me recently for taking my mom's watch and wedding ring. I told him if I leave it there I might as well dump it in the trash. Seriously dad? The caregivers have the plausible deniability of mom just losing stuff because she's absent minded.
Mom wouldn't sign an advanced health directive. My dad instructed her to sign nothing for the kids. We'd take over I guess.
I've spent two years in a delicate game of chess with the old man trying to take control of assets I need to pay for mom's care. Our system up to then was a joint bank account with a $4000 balance that he filled monthly.
Though suicidal as a younger woman, she clings to life now. She's made it very clear to me that she wants to live even though she cannot tell me who I am.
See that's what you get with a bunch of INTs who want to control everything.
Edit- some erroneous autocorrects
My mom has been declining mentally for six years now.
Whatever she might have wanted before doesn't mean much now.
She told me many times she didn't want to live with dementia when I was a little kid. Ok? So who does? Then we should sign a little piece of paper that says just that. Then what? We go out and procure the anti dementia pills for her and administer them when it spins out?
She was stubborn and suspicious of me as she slipped into the fog. So any plans we could have made were not made. Regardless, I've pretty much taken over.
She did give away $250,000 to scammers. It happens. she never wanted me to have responsibility over her money. My dad made it difficult for me too. He was afraid he couldn't control me if I held all the money. So he started dolling it out to me dollar by dollar as expenses came up. He questioned every expense. He wanted me to be his employee. His only ER child...the last guy who would be somebody's employee.
So dad and mom wanted to control everything so much they started losing things. Dad recently asked me where all of mom's art collection had gone to. Stolen I told him. He said we kids took it. Nope. Caregivers and home repair folks stripped anything of value long ago. He was mad. I told him if he wanted to keep any of that stuff he should have taken it. He asked why I hadn't taken it. I reminded him he accused us of "stealing" their things whenever we removed an item from the home - even a childhood toy. And that is the funny thing. They clung to things so hard that they eventually started losing them.
Dad scolded me recently for taking my mom's watch and wedding ring. I told him if I leave it there I might as well dump it in the trash. Seriously dad? The caregivers have the plausible deniability of mom just losing stuff because she's absent minded.
Mom wouldn't sign an advanced health directive. My dad instructed her to sign nothing for the kids. We'd take over I guess.
I've spent two years in a delicate game of chess with the old man trying to take control of assets I need to pay for mom's care. Our system up to then was a joint bank account with a $4000 balance that he filled monthly.
Though suicidal as a younger woman, she clings to life now. She's made it very clear to me that she wants to live even though she cannot tell me who I am.
See that's what you get with a bunch of INTs who want to control everything.
Edit- some erroneous autocorrects
Last edited by Sclass on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
Sclass..... this should be required reading for everyone. Sorry you are going through it. Thank you for sharing it because there are many good lessons there.
http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/ind ... ageid=3289
ETA.... Advanced Directive for every state. Everyone should do it now, for the sake of the Sclass in your life.Clung to things so hard that they eventually started losing them.
http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/ind ... ageid=3289
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
Ya know, I've learned that your directives are only as good as those you've chosen to carry them out. Silly old people think they can run the show forever. People never learn. Perhaps I'll be next.
Ego, I'm actually in a much better place than I was a year ago. Even a lone pawn can eventually overwhelm a king given time and planning.
Ego, I'm actually in a much better place than I was a year ago. Even a lone pawn can eventually overwhelm a king given time and planning.
Re: what's your end of life strategy?
I think about it every now and then, probably more so than people of my age, as I am asexual and aromantic, and plan to live alone in my later years. I'm a transhumanist, so I think we'll reach the age where robots will actually be quite useful in my lifetime, so hopefully I can get one that will act as my nurse by the time I'm old. If not, then I'll have enough to have a private nurse care for me until I need hospice or die. I will not be subjected to a nursing home.
Like I said I'm a transhumanist, so I leave a lot of the future up to what sort of technology is available then. Luckily, I'm only in my early thirties, so much can be innovated before my old age. With tech, I may not even reach old age
Like I said I'm a transhumanist, so I leave a lot of the future up to what sort of technology is available then. Luckily, I'm only in my early thirties, so much can be innovated before my old age. With tech, I may not even reach old age