I'd love a government that was wholeheartedly focussed on making life easier for its citizens. To me this means:
1. Finding a way to make cost of living lower, so the buck stretches farther
2. Helping me be healthy and active
3. Helping me have time for my family
So really, what I'm saying is ERE for president! go Jacob go. Unfortunately though I believe Jacob is an immigrant, and even more so I think he's from a country that readily accomodates pot smoking... and I'm sure he didn't always "not inhale".
But seriously, this is how I'd define a policy that works for the people.
1. Focus on lowering cost of living:
-make transit plans that don't require every household to have two cars. Imagine if you could have 1 or no cars and get around!
-find ways to lower the cost of housing. This probably means building cities up or building suburbs that are more like villages... most of all this means less McMansions
-spend less and lower taxes
2. Make investing more tax-friendly:
-low interest rates = bad... crucifies savers and their hardwork and makes more people borrow/buy homes
-lower tax on capital gains, maybe let things like re-balancing occur without paying taxes
-more incentive for folks to invest in companies, so helps free up cash flow/credit crisis
3. Ultimately it seems like any "deflationary" economic policy hurts the economy. But what it maybe does using my purely untrained laymen's economics:
-makes cost of living lower = cheaper goods = more exports = more jobs in US, less jobs in China
-helps tidy up balance sheets for the average person, which means the average person can take more risks... like start a small business or business... the true heart of the economy!
So really what I'm saying is a "broad-scope" ERE economic policy might be crazy enough that it'd actually work????
What I'd want from a government
I already believe that the US and Canada are great countries for early retirement. (Canada is little better since healthcare is covered although in my experience the quality of care may be better in the US with decent insurance)
Both have:
- stable economies
- high socio-economic mobility
- abundance of high paying jobs
- areas with cheap cost of living
- almost all metro areas have public transportation
- progressive tax systems so ER's with high net worth but low income benefit
- tax deferred investing in retirement accounts and tax-free options (e.g., ibonds, municipal bonds, etc)
- lower tax on capital gains/dividends than income tax rates
- cheap access to food relative to incomes
- impressive safety nets (e.g., 2 years of unemployment insurance)
Both have:
- stable economies
- high socio-economic mobility
- abundance of high paying jobs
- areas with cheap cost of living
- almost all metro areas have public transportation
- progressive tax systems so ER's with high net worth but low income benefit
- tax deferred investing in retirement accounts and tax-free options (e.g., ibonds, municipal bonds, etc)
- lower tax on capital gains/dividends than income tax rates
- cheap access to food relative to incomes
- impressive safety nets (e.g., 2 years of unemployment insurance)
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AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
Local (city, maybe county) governments - reliable public transportation funded completely by fares, lack of minimum size requirements on buildings, lack of zoning related to number of residences per property (ie., R-1, 1 residence per lot or something), sales tax only, robust library system that has free classes in things like grammar and spanish for kids and computer skills, gardening, and philosophy for adults.
State governments - maintenance of state highways and parks. Maintain a regulated militia.
Federal government - stick to the constitution and nothing else. Basically defense of rights (including prisons and courts) and national defense. No contracting, no mercenaries, no private prisons.
State governments - maintenance of state highways and parks. Maintain a regulated militia.
Federal government - stick to the constitution and nothing else. Basically defense of rights (including prisons and courts) and national defense. No contracting, no mercenaries, no private prisons.
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jacob
- Site Admin
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- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
Actually I have never inhaled anything(*). When I was a kid I was fairly afflicted with allergies/hay fever to such a degree that I couldn't even make it through the detergent or perfume section of the supermarket much less be able to tolerate a cigarette. My dad used to smoke pipes but quit cold turkey when I was diagnosed (age 4).
(*) Not entirely true, I once (unintentionally) inhaled a bottle of residual hydrogen after a chemistry experiment by sticking my head in over it after removing the cap---a very dumb thing to do. [Hydrogen is very corrosive!]
(*) Not entirely true, I once (unintentionally) inhaled a bottle of residual hydrogen after a chemistry experiment by sticking my head in over it after removing the cap---a very dumb thing to do. [Hydrogen is very corrosive!]
I think it is amusing how people ask for something in one breath, such as better public transportation or lowering the cost of living (just how is non-authoritarian government going to do this?), and then suggest lower taxes by only having a sales tax or cutting capital gains taxes (could you be more transparent?). I would have thought ERE readers, theoretically being rationals (INTJ, etc.), would not be advocating the giant debt we have, but it appears I am wrong.
On top of that, a sales tax is hardest on the poor, which, in theory, is the ERE readership group. $12,000-20,000 would not buy you what it buys you today with a federal sales tax in place of current income tax.
Plus, the sales tax would make the divide between rich and poor even greater, which in the end would make it that much harder for anyone to reach ERE. Giving the current people in power (they made the current mess) more power by taxing them less is just plain foolish.
On top of that, a sales tax is hardest on the poor, which, in theory, is the ERE readership group. $12,000-20,000 would not buy you what it buys you today with a federal sales tax in place of current income tax.
Plus, the sales tax would make the divide between rich and poor even greater, which in the end would make it that much harder for anyone to reach ERE. Giving the current people in power (they made the current mess) more power by taxing them less is just plain foolish.
*free housing
*free [mandatory] medical care
*free [regulated] food (dangerous foods should be illegal)
*free [state censored and approved] TV
*protection from terrorists, and all other frightening things I see on the TV
*free money to buy the stuff I see on the TV
I'm thinking a Wall-E type chair, that dispenses all the govt approved food and medicine I need via a tube. Chair will need retrofitted with sweet plasma TV... And it will need some kind of bin Laden/youth gang shield.
*free [mandatory] medical care
*free [regulated] food (dangerous foods should be illegal)
*free [state censored and approved] TV
*protection from terrorists, and all other frightening things I see on the TV
*free money to buy the stuff I see on the TV
I'm thinking a Wall-E type chair, that dispenses all the govt approved food and medicine I need via a tube. Chair will need retrofitted with sweet plasma TV... And it will need some kind of bin Laden/youth gang shield.
I live in a state that has income tax, but no sales tax. I always hear, "Sales tax is a very regressive tax, it's hard on the poor!"
But at least it's apportioned, and you have some choice in the matter. The average household would have to spend well over 100% of their takehome for an income tax to be preferable over a sales tax.
But at least it's apportioned, and you have some choice in the matter. The average household would have to spend well over 100% of their takehome for an income tax to be preferable over a sales tax.
"The average household would have to spend well over 100% of their takehome for an income tax to be preferable over a sales tax."
Assuming that the tax burden stays constant, moving from a graduated income tax (higher income pays more) to a flat rate sales tax would mean that the sales tax rate would have to skyrocket. Basically people on LBYM (high income, low expenses) would pay next to nothing in taxes (relatively) and everyone else would have to pick up the slack.
Assuming that the tax burden stays constant, moving from a graduated income tax (higher income pays more) to a flat rate sales tax would mean that the sales tax rate would have to skyrocket. Basically people on LBYM (high income, low expenses) would pay next to nothing in taxes (relatively) and everyone else would have to pick up the slack.
Too bad corporations own the government otherwise we could just make them pay taxes again.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing ... raph_2.jpg
I agree, though. We need to address spending before we can begin on taxes. Seems to me that over 80% of federal spending go to "defense", SS/med and interest. Hm...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing ... raph_2.jpg
I agree, though. We need to address spending before we can begin on taxes. Seems to me that over 80% of federal spending go to "defense", SS/med and interest. Hm...
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AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
"I think it is amusing how people ask for something in one breath, such as better public transportation or lowering the cost of living (just how is non-authoritarian government going to do this?), and then suggest lower taxes by only having a sales tax or cutting capital gains taxes (could you be more transparent?). I would have thought ERE readers, theoretically being rationals (INTJ, etc.), would not be advocating the giant debt we have, but it appears I am wrong."
I thought this was "ideal" not "what you think the gov should do right now." Obv my ideal government wouldn't have this massive debt. Also would be limited to what I said
I thought this was "ideal" not "what you think the gov should do right now." Obv my ideal government wouldn't have this massive debt. Also would be limited to what I said
@ Chad
I wasn't asking for anything:)
I also think you are looking at sales tax as it is today. I am imagining a sales tax that would mainly be paid by the corporations.
The portion of sales tax left to the consumer would depend on the product. Luxury items and things beyond necessity living could require higher sales tax brackets.
Frugal rich people might still be better off, but I don't agree that rich people should have to pay more just because they are rich. I do believe that the coporations they own which make them rich from other peoples sweat should have to pay the bill instead of the workers.
I also think it makes sense to place a more realistic burden to items that are being consumed and higher than realistic burdens on luxury items that keep main street drooling at wall street. Let wall street live in luxury, but make them pay through the nose by making the items even more luxurious by adding some extra $$$ luxury sales tax.
I wasn't asking for anything:)
I also think you are looking at sales tax as it is today. I am imagining a sales tax that would mainly be paid by the corporations.
The portion of sales tax left to the consumer would depend on the product. Luxury items and things beyond necessity living could require higher sales tax brackets.
Frugal rich people might still be better off, but I don't agree that rich people should have to pay more just because they are rich. I do believe that the coporations they own which make them rich from other peoples sweat should have to pay the bill instead of the workers.
I also think it makes sense to place a more realistic burden to items that are being consumed and higher than realistic burdens on luxury items that keep main street drooling at wall street. Let wall street live in luxury, but make them pay through the nose by making the items even more luxurious by adding some extra $$$ luxury sales tax.
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Robert Muir
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:15 pm
I think sales tax is the most effective and possibly progressive tax there is.
1. Sales tax can be waved on essential items such as groceries and drugs. That way there is only tax assessed on consumer crap. The more you spend on stupid stuff, the more tax you pay.
2. You're not penalized for earning more money. Only for spending it on stuff.
3. It's much harder to avoid paying the tax because it's collected by the seller of the stuff.
4. The government doesn't need a huge bureaucracy to collect it as they do with an income tax. Most of the collection work is done by each individual seller. Sort of like crowdsourcing.
5. Look at how much time and money is saved by not having to fill out income tax forms or paying accountants/CPAs.
1. Sales tax can be waved on essential items such as groceries and drugs. That way there is only tax assessed on consumer crap. The more you spend on stupid stuff, the more tax you pay.
2. You're not penalized for earning more money. Only for spending it on stuff.
3. It's much harder to avoid paying the tax because it's collected by the seller of the stuff.
4. The government doesn't need a huge bureaucracy to collect it as they do with an income tax. Most of the collection work is done by each individual seller. Sort of like crowdsourcing.
5. Look at how much time and money is saved by not having to fill out income tax forms or paying accountants/CPAs.
@jacob - I knew you smoked hydro!!! Thats the good stuff... duuuuude.
@The Dude - I love this combo - increase sales tax (esp on luxury goods), decrease income tax, decrease capital gains taxes, increase interest rates.
I am slightly against corporate taxes going up, because in my Nirvana people are starting their own small businesses & start-ups with all this extra money they have. Its already hard enough to create a business without more taxes eating at the little bit of money you have.
I think the biggest thing stopping the government from creating incentives for a "savers/investors" economy is that they themselves are constant debtors/borrowers... which is kind of perverse...
@The Dude - I love this combo - increase sales tax (esp on luxury goods), decrease income tax, decrease capital gains taxes, increase interest rates.
I am slightly against corporate taxes going up, because in my Nirvana people are starting their own small businesses & start-ups with all this extra money they have. Its already hard enough to create a business without more taxes eating at the little bit of money you have.
I think the biggest thing stopping the government from creating incentives for a "savers/investors" economy is that they themselves are constant debtors/borrowers... which is kind of perverse...
I wonder what a federal government 21 day ERE plan would look like...
day 1 - Moving... Obama moves into the "White Yurt"
day 2 - Declutter... fighter jet garage sale!!!!
day 3 - Learn to shop... no more gift contracts for friends
day 4 - BlackBerrys get turned off across Washington.. conversations stop being painful 10 second of talks, 3 seconds of interruption... Democrats and Republicans actually talk to each other instead of stare at devices and realize they have stuff in common!
...etc...
...
At the end of 21 days all the gov't employees get to (forceably) retire... hurraaayyy.
day 1 - Moving... Obama moves into the "White Yurt"
day 2 - Declutter... fighter jet garage sale!!!!
day 3 - Learn to shop... no more gift contracts for friends
day 4 - BlackBerrys get turned off across Washington.. conversations stop being painful 10 second of talks, 3 seconds of interruption... Democrats and Republicans actually talk to each other instead of stare at devices and realize they have stuff in common!
...etc...
...
At the end of 21 days all the gov't employees get to (forceably) retire... hurraaayyy.
The best thing I can say about the American tax system, at all levels of government, is that it seems to be based on one underlying principle-- follow the herd.
Most people drive, so there are fuel taxes, car registration fees, wheel taxes (whatever the heck that is Tennessee!?), etc.. A bicycle does essentially the same thing, without the fees and taxes. Most people consume a lot so we have sales taxes. Most people "need" a job, so we tax earned income as if it were some form of partial crime...
One of the things that has really attracted me to the ERE concept is that if you get out of the herd, many of these taxes disappear or become insignificant. It's quite possible that I will pay more taxes in the next two years than Jacob will pay for the remainder of his life-- yet he probably has more wealth than I do.
Most people drive, so there are fuel taxes, car registration fees, wheel taxes (whatever the heck that is Tennessee!?), etc.. A bicycle does essentially the same thing, without the fees and taxes. Most people consume a lot so we have sales taxes. Most people "need" a job, so we tax earned income as if it were some form of partial crime...
One of the things that has really attracted me to the ERE concept is that if you get out of the herd, many of these taxes disappear or become insignificant. It's quite possible that I will pay more taxes in the next two years than Jacob will pay for the remainder of his life-- yet he probably has more wealth than I do.
We need to address both spending and raise taxes, or it doesn't matter. We definitely need to cut defense spending, SS/med, etc.
Based on this being an "ideal":
1. Keep the income tax, but eliminate most deductions and credits. Simplify it enough so roughly 70-80% of Americans could do their taxes themselves.
2. Add a large gas tax. Oil is not only an environmental issue, but more importantly a national security and economic issue.
3. Raise the age you can take social security. Born before 1945 unchanged. 1946-1960 minimum is 68. Everyone else is at least 70. Social Security is not a retirement plan, but a "keep out of the gutter" plan when you are nearing death.
4. Cut defense spending drastically. We out spend the next 15 or so countries on this...too much maybe? "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
5. Eliminate the recent healthcare bill.
6. Raise the co-pay for medicare and for drugs under medicare.
7. Short term increase in income taxes (we are at a very low tax level compared to our historical norms no matter what the talking heads say). This could come just from the elimination of certain deductions.
8. Raise spending on infrastructure.
Based on this being an "ideal":
1. Keep the income tax, but eliminate most deductions and credits. Simplify it enough so roughly 70-80% of Americans could do their taxes themselves.
2. Add a large gas tax. Oil is not only an environmental issue, but more importantly a national security and economic issue.
3. Raise the age you can take social security. Born before 1945 unchanged. 1946-1960 minimum is 68. Everyone else is at least 70. Social Security is not a retirement plan, but a "keep out of the gutter" plan when you are nearing death.
4. Cut defense spending drastically. We out spend the next 15 or so countries on this...too much maybe? "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
5. Eliminate the recent healthcare bill.
6. Raise the co-pay for medicare and for drugs under medicare.
7. Short term increase in income taxes (we are at a very low tax level compared to our historical norms no matter what the talking heads say). This could come just from the elimination of certain deductions.
8. Raise spending on infrastructure.
@dpmorel:
"I am slightly against corporate taxes going up, because in my Nirvana people are starting their own small businesses & start-ups with all this extra money they have. Its already hard enough to create a business without more taxes eating at the little bit of money you have."
Perhaps the corporate taxation idea is directed toward large corporations, like GE for example, that pay very little in taxes relative to their size. I don't think too many people want to increase taxes on the self-employed mom-n-pop kind of operations.
"I am slightly against corporate taxes going up, because in my Nirvana people are starting their own small businesses & start-ups with all this extra money they have. Its already hard enough to create a business without more taxes eating at the little bit of money you have."
Perhaps the corporate taxation idea is directed toward large corporations, like GE for example, that pay very little in taxes relative to their size. I don't think too many people want to increase taxes on the self-employed mom-n-pop kind of operations.
@Chad - I think my goal was to design a gov't policy that helps those of us who are financially responsible and want to retire extremely early.... as opposed to designing a set of policy based on the reality of today's politics and fiscal situation.
Buuuutttt.... if you were to ask me to come up with a set of policies choices to solve today's problems... I'd probably implement something that smells like Jacob's 21 day ERE plans, with a focus on making the US a net exporter (which to me is the gov't equivalent of living off of your investment income).
Buuuutttt.... if you were to ask me to come up with a set of policies choices to solve today's problems... I'd probably implement something that smells like Jacob's 21 day ERE plans, with a focus on making the US a net exporter (which to me is the gov't equivalent of living off of your investment income).