Motivation to retire early

Favorite quotations, etc.
User avatar
Sclass
Posts: 2791
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by Sclass »

cmonkey wrote:Reading through this thread and the healthcare options thread has got me depressed this week. We need to stop talking about death!
Depends how you look at it I guess. Life is too short to ruin things worrying about the inevitable.

Health insurance was tough for me since I quit working in 2012 before the ACA kicked in. After that ACA was tough because it is a bureaucratic nightmare for people with irregular income.

I had a lot of time to think this over. My SO put a lot of pressure on me to get us low deductible health insurance because that is what good people do. I self insured myself for awhile and bought her a policy to keep us happy.

Insurance is an options trade in an inefficient market. The house can give you any odds they can pull out of their arse as long as they don't lose money. I have this emotional argument with my SO every year when I set deductibles or decide where we should self insure. Bets shouldn't be made on emotions like fear for example. That's for losers.

Heath insurance doesn't make you healthy. They're two separate things. Today I have health and I'm grateful for it. Oops, I'm missing sunrise. Bye.

User avatar
jennypenny
Posts: 6851
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by jennypenny »

jennypenny wrote:I could see myself paying an obscene amount to see Liverpool in a championship game. Sadly (luckily?) they haven't been in one in a while.
Well, they proved me wrong.

Anyone have a hotel recommendation for Basel?

enigmaT120
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by enigmaT120 »

That's too funny. Is it like a reverse jinx?

SustainableHappiness
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:39 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by SustainableHappiness »

So, after giving thought and reading on death and/or the meaning of life (two completely different topics, but very related), I have found mindfulness practice the most useful method for coming to grips with it. Keep in mind I am a beginner ERE-er and mindfulness practitioner, but I hope this helps.

The weird thing is, reading this meditation once in a while (maybe every couple months?) has done nothing to change my tactical approach to life and early retirement explicitly (or planning-wise), but it has done a great deal for helping my interpretation of events, including deaths of other people or pets that I am close with and therefore I would be crazy to say that it has not had an impact on my well-being. Every time I read and meditate on these realities, my fear of death is lessened (although clearly I am not in an intentional pursuit of it!), it just is.

A. DEATH IS CERTAIN

1. There is no possible way to escape death. No-one ever has, not even Jesus, Buddha, etc. Of the current world population of over 5 billion people, almost none will be alive in 100 years time.

2. Life has a definite, inflexible limit and each moment brings us closer to the finality of this life. We are dying from the moment we are born.

3. Death comes in a moment and its time is unexpected. All that separates us from the next life is one breath.

B. THE TIME OF DEATH IS UNCERTAIN

4. The duration of our lifespan is uncertain. The young can die before the old, the healthy before the sick, etc.

5. There are many causes and circumstances that lead to death, but few that favour the sustenance of life.

Even things that sustain life can kill us, for example food, motor vehicles, property.

6. The weakness and fragility of one's physical body contribute to life's uncertainty.

The body can be easily destroyed by disease or accident, for example cancer, AIDS, vehicle accidents, other disasters.

C. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HELP US AT THE TIME OF DEATH IS OUR MENTAL/SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT

7. Worldly possessions such as wealth, position, money can't help

8. Relatives and friends can neither prevent death nor go with us.

9. Even our own precious body is of no help to us. We have to leave it behind like a shell, an empty husk, an overcoat.

Full reading here (I removed the convictions): http://www.buddhanet.net/deathtib.htm

SimpleLife
Posts: 771
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by SimpleLife »

7Wannabe5 wrote:A 9-5 job takes up a heck of a lot of time that could in theory be spent on other activities that might have more or equivalent benefit for future-us. For instance, I would say that if you are already over 40 and working 9-5 is limiting your ability to care for your health then you might be better off retiring sooner rather than later and picking up a part-time job as night attendant at your local super-gym. Also, I hate to say this, but there is a level on which the all-or-nothing financial independence model of ERE reinforces the reality of the cave or cage. Like you have to believe that it exists if you think you need to earn your way out. Many of us have read books or blogs based on the experiment of "just not shopping/spending" for a time period. What about an experiment in "just not working/earning" in the conventional marketplace? The challenge would be that you have to survive for the next year without either working at a W-2 job OR taking any money out of your savings. Ready, set...hustle!
Interesting...

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by BRUTE »

SustainableHappiness wrote: C. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HELP US AT THE TIME OF DEATH IS OUR MENTAL/SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT

7. Worldly possessions such as wealth, position, money can't help

8. Relatives and friends can neither prevent death nor go with us.

9. Even our own precious body is of no help to us. We have to leave it behind like a shell, an empty husk, an overcoat.
do mental and spiritual development go with SustainableHappiness? if not, how are they helpful?

enigmaT120
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm
Location: Falls City, OR

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by enigmaT120 »

Yeah. You have to believe in an afterlife to think that will work.

SustainableHappiness
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:39 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by SustainableHappiness »

Yeah. You have to believe in an afterlife to think that will work.
do mental and spiritual development go with SustainableHappiness? if not, how are they helpful?
The list mentioned does not imply belief in an afterlife (although an afterlife of some sort is a facet of Buddhism). I hold no such belief myself.

The word "Spiritual" tends to get weird emotions rising both in myself and in other people and maybe I should've removed it from that quote since I was more intent on the mental than the spiritual, but arguably they are deeply intertwined if we except Dictionary.com's definition of "of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things." Mental = immaterial if the mind is our faculty of consciousness and thought and we concede it is difficult to define in a straight mind/body connection (this is really weird territory and I do not believe I have the expertise to give it the words required). SIDEBAR: Interestingly enough, I can't find a logical way out of determinism (and/or materialism), except for the fact it doesn't reflect my personal experience, i.e. I feel like I can make a choice in all the decisions I make.

Anyways, the point is that YES, mental development is a key facet of SustainableHappiness (and ERE??), based on all the evidence we have seen showing that material/physical things do not consistently provide happiness, and redefining our relationship with death is in the vein of mental development is it not? Much like practicing stoicism is applying the strength of mind versus the suffering inherent in nature*?

*this feels like an oversimplification.

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by Dragline »

Some of the most meaningful life experiences I have had have been with people who were dying.

There is a great podcast about the process of death here: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2016/01/2 ... d-answers/

And the guest wrote some very short but insightful pamphlets that you can get as one book/package: https://www.amazon.com/End-Life-Guideli ... ine+series

Highly recommended.

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by BRUTE »

SustainableHappiness wrote:Interestingly enough, I can't find a logical way out of determinism (and/or materialism)
that's because there isn't one.
SustainableHappiness wrote:Anyways, the point is that YES, mental development is a key facet of SustainableHappiness (and ERE??), based on all the evidence we have seen showing that material/physical things do not consistently provide happiness, and redefining our relationship with death is in the vein of mental development is it not?
just because a focus on material/physical things doesn't guarantee sustainable happiness doesn't mean that mental things will. some basic mental development is probably necessary to be happy, just as some physical things are (water, shelter, food). brute believes that it's pretty much the exact same phenomenon, or distribution, as with material things.

what brute was getting at before, clearly, humans cannot take their mental/spiritual development with them, either. so brute would say that the statement "the only things helpful at time of death are mental/spiritual" is incorrect. for example, money and stuff can prevent death.

brute would accept that if a human is afraid of death, or unhappy about impending death, certain aspects of mental/spiritual development could help, for example acceptance. but so could certain material things, like morphine.

SustainableHappiness wrote:Much like practicing stoicism is applying the strength of mind versus the suffering inherent in nature?
stoicism is just pop-cynicism for the mainstream. brute is not impressed.

SustainableHappiness
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:39 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by SustainableHappiness »

BRUTE wrote: just because a focus on material/physical things doesn't guarantee sustainable happiness doesn't mean that mental things will. some basic mental development is probably necessary to be happy, just as some physical things are (water, shelter, food). brute believes that it's pretty much the exact same phenomenon, or distribution, as with material things.
*guarantee* is the tough word there. Maybe I am not looking for a guarantee, but a high probability of success? To re-use your FI is a platform from which you can either continue moving towards more fulfillment and happiness, or you can not, physical things you mentioned are a platform (or maybe it's just the base of Maslows pyramid?), and mental things are necessary to move into higher levels of fulfillment and happiness. Also, if we assume that everyone reading this forum has access to the physical things you mentioned, shouldn't we focus on what takes us beyond that platform, i.e. the mental things?
BRUTE wrote: what brute was getting at before, clearly, humans cannot take their mental/spiritual development with them, either. so brute would say that the statement "the only things helpful at time of death are mental/spiritual" is incorrect. for example, money and stuff can prevent death.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
BRUTE wrote: brute would accept that if a human is afraid of death, or unhappy about impending death, certain aspects of mental/spiritual development could help, for example acceptance. but so could certain material things, like morphine.
Morphine has a time and place at the end of life (or at certain points throughout life), but living high on morphine does not sound like a quick trip to sustainable happiness, maybe numbed ignorance?
BRUTE wrote: stoicism is just pop-cynicism for the mainstream. brute is not impressed.
Just because people talk about it more openly and more often does not mean it isn't useful. Sex in advertising has gone mainstream, but has it dropped in importance to the average human?

BRUTE
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by BRUTE »

brute isn't concerned with Stoicism being popular in principle, but that it waters down the ideas of Cynicism, combining them with feel-good messages.

Did
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:50 am

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by Did »

I'm not sure if this has been discussed.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/millionair ... ash/nkLxS/

Did
Posts: 693
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:50 am

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by Did »

"I asked Mr. Danko about Mr. Stanley’s spending habits, given that he makes passing reference in the book to owning an Acura loaded with options. Mr. Danko couldn’t answer; he and Mr. Stanley had not spoken for about 15 years at the time of his death on Saturday. Was there a rift over money, I wondered? Credit? Mr. Danko said he honestly did not know. “I have no animosity towards Tom Stanley,” he said. “I wish the very best for his family, and they continue to be in my prayers.”

I tried to reach them, but they did not return my calls, and I found out later that they were busy with the funeral. But I was curious that Mr. Stanley died behind the wheel of a 2013 Corvette, rammed by another driver who might soon face charges in the accident. Mr. Stanley too, it turns out, couldn’t help but have a taste for the finer things in life.

So does that make him a hypocrite? Or just a human being? All the best research tells us that we get much more joy out of doing things than having things, and a weekend drive in a car that goes really fast probably falls into both categories. But he earned that drive — and that car — by putting untold numbers of readers in a position where they’d be lucky enough to have that same choice themselves."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/07/your- ... .html?_r=0

cmonkey
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by cmonkey »

We had our own little 'motivation to retire' moment last night. As we ended our celebration of finally turning the corner on our renovation project, leaving the restaurant we were greeted by a firetruck and some police whizzing by. We looked over by our car and there was an ambulance parked 15 feet behind it. A man had collapsed and died just a few feet behind our vehicle. Just 5 minutes prior to our getting done with our celebration.

As we are entering a new exciting phase of our life, another was exiting his. DW started crying as the man's friend was crying and yelling at his friend to wake up. It was really really sad. I have a feeling it was one of those moments that really changes you, but I haven't quite realized it yet.

Almost as if Death himself was standing over the man, looked me straight in the eye, tapped on his watch and vanished.

denise
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:53 pm
Location: Georgia
Contact:

Re: Motivation to retire early

Post by denise »

My motivation to retire early is that I hate being in the workforce. I'm trying to alleviate that by negotiating with my employer to work less days, and use flex time, but they don't want to. I want to enjoy more days to myself, while I'm still young. I'll retire in either 6 or 11 years; when I'm around 38-43 years old. Everyone in my family lives to be pretty old, but I'm not taking any chances. I want to make the most of what I can, as soon as I can.

Post Reply