What do YOU want?

Favorite quotations, etc.
jacob
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by jacob » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:47 pm

The low cost solution would be to arrange them in the order of booze, then sex, then food. That would save on the beano too :mrgreen:

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Ego
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Ego » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:59 pm

We went back to Soylent Towers for a little coffee and cake with the new manager in the meeting room. One of the senior tenants complained bitterly that there were too many of us and that there was just too much activity in the hallway... on Sunday at noon.

Moving 'away from those people' means that the place where you decide to live is defined by 'those people'. You are at their mercy.

One of the defining characteristics of my Soylent-seniors is that they are continually adding new requirements to their safe-spaces. Money buys EREers the ability to foster this characteristic much earlier in life. It ain't gonna be pretty.

This is the opposite of resilience.

Dave
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Dave » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:16 pm

@Ego - There is a really interesting perspective.

I agree with you that having the mental and financial wherewithal to construct your "perfect" life may bring about a desire (stemming from the ability) to maintain a death grip level of control on your life. We sort of see some of that here on the forums.

On the other hand, many EREs are able to develop an appreciation of a simpler life and to adapt to environments that others may consider challenging.

I am not sure which of these factors would (generally) take precedence. My guess is it varies by individual.

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Ego
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Ego » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:31 pm

Dave, I want to make sure it is clear that I wasn't commenting on your (or anyone's) plans. I focused on the meme and agreed with oldpro about the wording.

Right now we're living in the middle of the action in our city. I have to admit, it took me a few nights to get used to sleeping here with the windows open. After a month now I am sleeping like a baby. Like you, I see it as adapting to environments.

I guess that's probably the key. If we are going somewhere to BE there.... then yes, I agree. If we are going somewhere for no other reason than to be away from others then it is probably a Soylent solution.

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Riggerjack
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Riggerjack » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Paul Graham did an essay about how much of the news is generated by PR firms, and how to find it.

http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

I expect the meme in the OP was a product of a PR firm, and the phrasing intentional. Anything that helps a group define itself, helps marketers to sell to them.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by JL13 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:10 pm

jennypenny wrote:For a group that's often accused of living lives that are too austere, we spend an awful lot of time talking about food, booze, and sex. :lol:
Well, this is what everyone does when not at work, right? :D

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by jacob » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:14 pm

Well, food, booze, sex, and the interwebs ...

AND/OR=XOR TPS reports ;-P

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Dragline
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Dragline » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:17 pm

I thought the definitive answer to this was "a zig-a-zig ahh".

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cmonkey
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by cmonkey » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:12 pm

Riggerjack wrote:Paul Graham did an essay about how much of the news is generated by PR firms, and how to find it.

http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

I expect the meme in the OP was a product of a PR firm, and the phrasing intentional. Anything that helps a group define itself, helps marketers to sell to them.

You have no idea. Be prepared to be afraid.

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Riggerjack
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Riggerjack » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:47 pm

Nice link!

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fiby41
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by fiby41 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:04 am

fiby41 wrote:Here's another image of 'cabin in the woods'.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/O0T5f ... 69-h848-rw

Fixed link. Imaginary but still.
Image

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Ego
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Ego » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:20 am

I read the Nearing book back when I was in high school and decided I wanted something like that postcard above. I had grown up in a city and didn't understand what it meant to live in a place like that but I was enchanted with the idea of building something out of stone (still am).

Once I had the opportunity to actually experience it I realized that what I had wanted was the postcard, not the reality.

I now know that I really like small spaces in big cities. Not terribly romantic, I know. Somehow the stars aligned ;) and we were offered a position managing a building full of micro-apartments with roll-out Murphy beds in the heart of our city. These places are so small they would never pass code if the building was being built today.

I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky that somehow my brain recalibrates my wants to match what I already have.

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GandK
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by GandK » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:35 am

Ego wrote:I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky that somehow my brain recalibrates my wants to match what I already have.
If so, that really is lucky. :D There's your privilege.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by steveo73 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:44 pm

fiby41 wrote:
fiby41 wrote:Here's another image of 'cabin in the woods'.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/O0T5f ... 69-h848-rw

Fixed link. Imaginary but still.
Image
I find this appealing. I'll have to think about why. Maybe because I'd like to just piss off at times and have lots of quiet time.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by steveo73 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:49 pm

Ego wrote:I read the Nearing book back when I was in high school and decided I wanted something like that postcard above. I had grown up in a city and didn't understand what it meant to live in a place like that but I was enchanted with the idea of building something out of stone (still am).

Once I had the opportunity to actually experience it I realized that what I had wanted was the postcard, not the reality.

I now know that I really like small spaces in big cities. Not terribly romantic, I know. Somehow the stars aligned ;) and we were offered a position managing a building full of micro-apartments with roll-out Murphy beds in the heart of our city. These places are so small they would never pass code if the building was being built today.

I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky that somehow my brain recalibrates my wants to match what I already have.
When I was at university I had a lot of holidays. I remember living on a friends parents farm in the shed out the back. We smoked pot and surfed every day. I loved it. Its one of the best times of my life.

I also though love my life now however I'd prefer not to have to go to work.

I think I like simple stuff. All I really need is decent food, regular exercise and books to read. Now I suppose I also need the Internet to post stuff like now or get some TV shows or movies to watch. I ride my bike to the gym and one guy who I think is at uni whereas I'm 42 said geez it'd suck not being able to afford a car. I don't even want to drive a car. I prefer riding my bike.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by jbrown79 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:16 pm

Of course I want money. For my children and grandchildren's future, for my whims and needs, and to fulfill my goal of traveling the world! But, in reality living in a cabin in the woods or even in a tiny hut facing the beach with peace of mind is far more meaningful than having all the money in the world.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by OldPro » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:22 am

jbrown79 wrote:Of course I want money. For my children and grandchildren's future, for my whims and needs, and to fulfill my goal of traveling the world! But, in reality living in a cabin in the woods or even in a tiny hut facing the beach with peace of mind is far more meaningful than having all the money in the world.
You do realize that 'reality' and 'living in a cabin in the woods' do not necessarily connect to 'peace of mind' or whatever romantic notion people often have of things like this.

It is far harder, time consuming work, to live in a cabin with little money than it is to live in a mansion with servants. I have met quite a few people who escaped to their 'paradise' only to find that they had ended up in a less 'peace of mind' providing lifestyle than the one they left behind.

Make no mistake, money DOES buy happiness. It is what buys you freedom from things you don't like. Sure there are poor and happy people just as there are rich and unhappy people but the fact is that there are more(by %) rich and happy people than there are poor and happy people.

The ideal is to have enough money to go and live in a cabin in the woods right up until you no longer want to live there and then have the money to go and live some other way if you choose to. Being unable to afford to leave that cabin in the woods when the romance of it all wears off, is not a good idea. Riding a bicycle is fine as long as you are happy doing so and not a day longer. Being able to choose to ride a bike or drive a car is a far better position to be in.

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fiby41
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by fiby41 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:12 am

OldPro wrote: Make no mistake, money DOES buy happiness.
No OldPro, you are wrong.

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GandK
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by GandK » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:26 am


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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by OldPro » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:38 am

Yeah he's right fiby41, it does buy 'crazy-ass happiness'. I just didn't want to rub it in, so I kept it down to a simple it does buy happiness. It's not easy hearing your $10k a year income or whatever ERE plans may have a flaw.
http://fpeluso.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Person.jpg

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:15 pm

What is the mechanism by which it buys "crazy-ass" happiness? I live on less than $10,000/year, and I track the factors that contribute to my daily happiness level, and discretionary spending doesn't even make the top five. Currently, it seems to be the case that my biggest limiting factors would be something like "stamina" and something like "focus" rather than "money." Also, it has become apparent to me that happiness is necessarily cyclical and relative. It makes sense that if money has been the lynch-pin limiting factor that has prevented you from having or doing something you really wanted, then it would be true that a sudden increase in finances could suddenly greatly increase your happiness, but it wouldn't necessarily or even likely be a continuous or even level improvement. OTOH, I would also, unfortunately, say that this was true for such factors as free time.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by C40 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:16 pm

OldPro wrote:Yeah he's right fiby41, it does buy 'crazy-ass happiness'. I just didn't want to rub it in, so I kept it down to a simple it does buy happiness. It's not easy hearing your $10k a year income or whatever ERE plans may have a flaw.
http://fpeluso.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Person.jpg
Huh??? Are you saying you think $10k/year spending means living like a homeless person? Or ending up homeless?

I'm sure you can understand that the "money buys happiness up to $75k/year of income(spending)" is from data relating to the entire U.S. consumer population and that individuals don't all adhere exactly to the mean.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by OldPro » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:41 am

7w5, I would think the 'mechanism' was obvious. Try being happy without a flush toilet for the rest of your life or whatever other thing you consider a necessity to be happy in your life. It requires money to have a flush toilet. Therefore, money buys happiness.

C40, the operative word in what I wrote, is 'may'. The more FI you have, the more room you have for the ups and downs that MAY come along. I keep saying here that FIREing is not an ending, it is simply a new beginning. You have no way of knowing what will happen 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

Let me give you a simple example. Part of the income my wife and I have, is derived in another country. That means it is paid in the currency of that country. That then means we must exchange it for the currency of the country we live in. A great many UK retirees living in Spain, found out just what that means when their UK pound based income started buying them less Euros. It didn't matter if they were living on 10k or 50k, if their actual living costs were at or near the full amount of their income, suddenly, they started having a widening gap between income and expenses.

In our case, our foreign derived income dropped over 3 years by 25% due to exchange fluctuation. To absorb that, you would need to be living on $8k of your initial $10k income or be in real trouble. For us this was not a major problem since it did not represent all our income and we operate on a plan of thirds. Actual living expenses equal no more than 1/3 of income; 1/3 for discretionary spending; 1/3 for savings. We have a cushion of 2/3 of our income in other words to deal with any unforeseen or unavoidable hiccups. And trust me, there will be hiccups after you FIRE, just as there are before you FIRE. There are all kinds of circumstances that can impact your financial situation down the road.

The original question posted is 'what do you want?' To which I would reply, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. If you want to FIRE on $10k a year, you might achieve that and then you MIGHT discover some unintended consequences of doing so are not what you expected. In other words the romantic dream of a cabin in the woods or whatever MAY turn out to be unsatisfactory. The more leeway you have in your FI the more room you have to deal with the problems IF they occur, that's all. Otherwise, if you FIRE on $10k and then find you need $12k, you may not end up a homeless person but you'll be closer to it than the person who FIRED with $20k of income and was living on $10k just like you.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:44 pm

OP said: I would think the 'mechanism' was obvious. Try being happy without a flush toilet for the rest of your life or whatever other thing you consider a necessity to be happy in your life. It requires money to have a flush toilet. Therefore, money buys happiness.
I've been quite happy camping without a flush toilet, but I agree that there are some base necessities for which I must currently spend money which are fairly essential to my continued happiness. These currently total up to around $6000/year. However, I do not think that is what you were implying. I think you were implying that having more money to spend can take you all the way up to "crazy-ass" level of happy. In my experience, that simply isn't true. Simplest possible example being that if somebody with an income of $100,000 isn't getting regular physical exercise, they will likely be less happy than somebody with an income that just covers base expenses who is getting regular physical exercise. Fun with friends, exposure to nature, successful completion of somewhat challenging tasks, great sex and/or romance, interesting reading materials or other forms of mental engagement, novel experience or adventure, etc. etc.; all of these can be had for very little money (certainly less than $4000/year) and, IMO, are more likely to take you from "happy" to "crazy ass happy" then further discretionary luxury or status spending beyond base necessities.

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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by C40 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:03 pm

OldPro wrote:
C40 wrote:
OldPro wrote:.. It's not easy hearing your $10k a year income or whatever ERE plans may have a flaw.
http://fpeluso.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Person.jpg
Huh??? Are you saying you think $10k/year spending means living like a homeless person? Or ending up homeless?
C40, the operative word in what I wrote, is 'may'..... blah blah blah... blah blah blah.... really long-winded admission that no, it doesn't have anything to do with the picture I posted to troll and that the picture only makes sense in my head when I assume that someone who spends $10k must be spending $10k on their absolute minimum expenses and have no room for spending reduction...
:D ;)

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