What do YOU want?

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Carlos
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Carlos » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:01 pm

C40 wrote:Ok, I made it through your entire post.. The thing is, you're talking to people here like you think they are idiots.

Everyone here already understands that having a wider safety margin between income and spending means a higher success rate.

.
This comment sums up much of my feelings regarding the warning and the original post. ER types tend to be compulsive planners and optimizers. We obsess over optimizing our cash flow and expenses (sometimes to the extreme :lol: ). Most save in excess of 50% of their income and over the course of many years demonstrate strong dedication to FI and self-reliance. For the past 8 years I've saved in excess of 50% of my income with my savings rate peaking at 89% last year.

This isn't to say that ER types are immune from the normal bad outcomes that come with life. I believe however that the ER personality is more adaptable and capable of overcoming adversity such that a warning of homelessness or becoming a bum is uncalled for. If Jacob lost his savings I have no doubt that he could figure out a way to feed and house himself and maintain his happiness.

After monitoring my expenses and cash flow for 10 years and demonstrating financial acumen and discipline would anyone believe that I would for example spend more than my income in an unplanned fashion such that I would find myself expectantly penniless at 70? Black swan events are a bigger worry for me.

I plan to spend down my capital because I do not have children and have no obligation to leave an inheritance. That's the plan at least but it's hard to switch from saving to spending. I will buy long term care insurance and probably an annuity to give myself some guaranteed income as a mortality hedge. Knowing my personality and reluctance to be extravagant with money I will probably start gifting my surplus to my nephews for college if they show themselves to be dedicated and responsible.
Last edited by Carlos on Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ego
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Ego » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:35 pm

7Wannabe5 wrote:
OldPro said: Do you really need to include the fact that you are willing to trade yourself for some benefit, in every discussion?
I belong to a couple of other forums besides this one. One that I've participated in for over 10 years consists of a group of very intelligent, well-meaning individuals, much like the members of this forum, who are primarily concerned with the challenges or problems of sexuality and relationships, just like this forum is primarily concerned with the challenges of financial independence, finances and frugality....
I believe this is what is known as a teachable moment. Well done.

1taskaday
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Location: England

Re: What do YOU want?

Post by 1taskaday » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:58 pm

As I stated before 7Wannabe5 your lifestyle sounds blissful...
Oh to be that free and full of energy.

Just keep avoiding getting entrapped by the boring,aged "grumpy ol men",they really do require a lot of patience and care in their elder years.
You are living the dream...

(No offence meant to any members/readers of this forum who are naturally not boring).

George the original one
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by George the original one » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:01 pm

OldPro wrote:Sure if you ER at 30 and need to go back to work at 35, it's quite likely you will be able to do so. Try it at 70. Sure if someone lives frugally they can get by on $6k per year, try earning it when you are no longer physically able to work though. What then?
Even in the USA, social security will easily cover $6k/yr expenses. I'm pretty certain most of the "developed" nations have a minimum safety net of similar value for old folk.

"Oh, but social security will go away because not enough taxes to cover it." Projections suggest that even if USA social security isn't fixed, it will still pay 75% of current predictions. Assume 50% and we've got a comfort margin.

RealPerson
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by RealPerson » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:05 pm

George the original one wrote:
OldPro wrote:Sure if you ER at 30 and need to go back to work at 35, it's quite likely you will be able to do so. Try it at 70. Sure if someone lives frugally they can get by on $6k per year, try earning it when you are no longer physically able to work though. What then?
Even in the USA, social security will easily cover $6k/yr expenses. I'm pretty certain most of the "developed" nations have a minimum safety net of similar value for old folk.

"Oh, but social security will go away because not enough taxes to cover it." Projections suggest that even if USA social security isn't fixed, it will still pay 75% of current predictions. Assume 50% and we've got a comfort margin.
Also, since the biggest risk is the sequence risk, someone who retired at 30 will be aware of a sequence related problem at age 35 or 40. Plenty of time to make a course correction. This is not a surprise problem that pops up at age 69.5.

jacob
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by jacob » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:08 pm

Ego wrote:I believe this is what is known as a teachable moment. Well done.
Indeed!

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GandK
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by GandK » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:30 pm

RealPerson wrote:Also, since the biggest risk is the sequence risk, someone who retired at 30 will be aware of a sequence related problem at age 35 or 40. Plenty of time to make a course correction. This is not a surprise problem that pops up at age 69.5.
Yes. Anyone who is inclined to plan (everyone on this board) will be keeping up with legal changes regarding SS and all other retirement funds, and will know what he or she will be able to draw and when. And we will make the appropriate course corrections as soon as possible.

(Curious... are any Americans younger than 50 not considering SS as icing on their cake? Is anybody counting on it to fund their living expenses? I've never asked that question IRL and gotten a "yes." Maybe somebody here is?)

Regarding potential cuts: I think that, given the current political climate, most SS benefit cuts when they come will be aimed at higher earners. Since most people here are practicing "elegant economy," I doubt that we will see significant cuts. The biggest "cut" most of us could face is an increased retirement age. I think there's a 50/50 chance that will happen... it's the most obvious fix IMO, but most retirement policy wonks are against it because it disproportionally affects manual laborers and certain ethnic groups.

As far as my own family goes, I'm more afraid*** of continued currency devaluation and of a VAT being introduced here than I am of SS cuts.

***If you can call never thinking about this unless someone brings up SS cuts "fear."

henrik
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by henrik » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:48 pm

GandK wrote:an increased retirement age /.../ disproportionally affects manual laborers and certain ethnic groups.
What does the retirement age have to do with the type of the job or ethnicity?

jacob
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by jacob » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:03 pm

@henrik - Manual labour gets worn out [physically] more quickly than white collar. In the US, ethnicity (and gender) is still a determining factor in terms of having high income types of jobs.

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Carlos
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by Carlos » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:15 pm

@henrik, also part of the rationale for increasing the retirement age is that people are living longer. To the extent that certain ethnic groups or genders aren't showing the same improvement in life expectancy they would be impacted. Ethnicity A might have increased the average life span by 1 year whereas ethnicity B by 0.5 years due to a genetic propensity for high blood pressure/diabetes for example.

henrik
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by henrik » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:26 pm

Ok, got it, I was thinking along completely illogical lines:)

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BRUTE
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by BRUTE » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:35 pm

if white people earn more money on average due to better jobs on average, they can also buy better health care and better treatments than average. this could lead to higher life expectancy on average.

hypothetically, of course.

DeanPeacock
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by DeanPeacock » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:34 am

To my thinking it is not bad to want some material things sometimes they mean more than that (renown, love etc)

leeholsen
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Re: What do YOU want?

Post by leeholsen » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:00 am

I have read many books on the universe, religion, history, economics and most everything else and have come to conclude one person can't really have any affect on anything and everything accomplished will usually be brushed over a week after you are dead; so just enjoy the time you have.

I want to live in a mountain town, would love to spend the rest of my days in Breckenrigde Colorado; but I don't want to work long enough to be able to buy the house i want there. So, it's a house in a nice town(like Manchester) and a good dog. I can keep myself occupied enough with my own interests to need to keep a job/career or join any group.

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