Responsibility for Parents

How to pass, fit in, eventually set an example, and ultimately lead the way.
Riggerjack
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by Riggerjack »

@TD

You may find this useful in dealing with your mom.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle

There is a pattern of behaviors summed up there that is very common among people I don't get along with well. Extremely social people tend to want to fulfill one of those three roles, and force everyone else into one of the rest. You can see this in action, by changing your role in the conversation. Roles change all the time, so this will just be temporary.

If you find this fits,you may also find it upsetting. I did. The way I got around it is to realize that my way of thinking (problems > search for solutions> implement solutions) emotionally satisfying to me, but not my mom. Her way (problems > culprit > DRAMA) is satisfying to her, but not me. So I disengaged.

I have become the son who comes to the rescue, on very rare occasions, but is otherwise too busy to be involved in the dramafest.

It's a good place to be.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by ThisDinosaur »

Update: I caved and sent them a couple grand. But no commitment for ongoing payments. They got more than they were anticipating for the house, and my dad called and asked for enough to cover them until the payout. My brother offered to look into helping them get out of the car lease, but they aren't being forthcoming with that. We'll see.

I remember reading about the drama triangle on Archdruid Report. Never thought of applying it to this, but it does seem to fit.
And +1 to solutions/problem-solving being emotionally satisfying. I can't get into the heads of people who would rather complain about the thing than fix the thing.

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Sclass
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Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by Sclass »

That actually sounds pretty positive. What's their plan going forward?

jacob
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Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by jacob »

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:18 pm
I can't get into the heads of people who would rather complain about the thing than fix the thing.
Given a problem ... there are more folks who want to bond over complaining about it than there are people who want to solve it. That is how [we] humans are.

cmonkey
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Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by cmonkey »

I cut my mom off after she just wouldn't take any responsibility for herself. Eventually she got 2 DUI's and I was completely done and let her deal with and haven't talked to her in over 2 years. She moved 400 miles away to be near family and I'm sure nothing has changed. I think she's still paying off the fines.

I won't lie by saying it was easy. Many times I have felt a lot of guilt, but you need to realize that if people won't help themselves first you cannot begin to help other than with short term fixes.

Don't let anyone mooch on your hard earned dollars, no matter how much your DNA matches. In your case I wouldn't even consider giving them any money. A 6 figure mortgage and credit card debt at their age and one of them not even trying to work at paying it off? No chance in hell.

Dragline
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by Dragline »

You did the right think, cm. Thanks for sharing. But hopefully you will be on speaking terms sometime in the future.

Isabel
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:11 am

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by Isabel »

In Europe children are obliged by law to pay some money to their parents in case of their bankrupcy or if they have to live on some form of social help. The court decides how much a child should pay. Excemptions are made in case the child has been abused by the parents.

radamfi
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Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by radamfi »

Isabel wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:23 pm
In Europe children are obliged by law to pay some money to their parents in case of their bankrupcy or if they have to live on some form of social help. The court decides how much a child should pay. Excemptions are made in case the child has been abused by the parents.
I live in Europe and haven't heard of any such law. Maybe this law exists in certain countries?

EdithKeeler
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by EdithKeeler »

29 states in the US have filial responsibility laws which require children to pay for medical care for impoverished parents, including nursing home care. There have been a couple of court cases in a couple states that have held that the federal law trumps the state filial responsibilty law, so basically facilities can't collect for the additional costs if there's Medicaid in place. They can, however, still go after the children if there's not Medicaid, which might happen in a situation where a parent is a non-citizen. (A person can get Medicaid if they have insufficient resources to pay for their nursing home care, if they qualify for Medicaid).

Isabel
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:11 am

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by Isabel »

radamfi wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:18 pm
I live in Europe and haven't heard of any such law. Maybe this law exists in certain countries?
I know of at least 2 European countries where this is the case. This law is mostly case law (court law) and not written in any form of paragraphs.

It hapens mostly like this:
In country A an impoverished parent sues his/her child for alimony. The court agrees. Now it is case law for all other similar situations.

In country B care home of some impoverished parent sue his/her child to partly cover the expenses. The court agrees. Now it is also a case law in the country B.

In many European countries it went like that. It is therfore probable that the courts in most of European countries will follow this case law. Especially now with ageing society, where a lot of elderly will live in poverty.

EdithKeeler
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by EdithKeeler »

I wonder, though, how filial responsibility laws work in Europe since there is a strong safety net in place for things like healthcare. If the society has already assumed responsibility in one way or another for healthcare, for example, what sorts of things are children typically held responsible for?

stand@desk
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Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by stand@desk »

I thought of something. Pretend your current situation with your folks is actually happening one year earlier and you are looking at one year later so you have the hindsight benefit of one year of 20/20 vision.

So imagine that you have done some interventions in the one year earlier scenario (given money, help etc). How do you predict they would have worked out one year later which is the actual present time. From outside eye's looking in, and without knowing too much about anyone in this situation personally, I would predict your interventions would have a negative effect or ill effect or neutral effect. Probably not major positive effects. Why? Inertia. So I would say let your parents be.

Here is my skin in the game in a similar scenario.

My parents are fairly well off enough, but they still have a lot of clutter and crap at home that they are not getting rid of, so it will probably be me who has to deal with it at some point. Should I scold them to clean up their knick nacks and canoes in the garage while they still have the energy to do so? Or should I do nothing and probably just deal with it when they are too old or have died or are moving out and can't do any/all of the work themselves? I know my interventions likely will have negative or ill effects, so I am just leaving it on the shelf. Perhaps if I get into a position of better negotiating power at some point I may step in but currently it's likely a waste of emotional energy.

One more side story..

A guy felt he needed to get in the housing market because his wife was on his case and offered him an ultimatum to buy after years of renting. So the kids had their own space or something like that..so the guy buys a home, and years pass, his daughter, now in her late teens/early twenties decides to move out with her average boyfriend and rent a basement suite (gave up free rent and food at home to do so, rules too strict). And wife has left the husband anyways. Husband has taken on even more debt and sells the house for basically the same price as he bought it. Was it the right decision to give in? Probably not.

Isabel
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:11 am

Re: Responsibility for Parents

Post by Isabel »

EdithKeeler wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:29 am
I wonder, though, how filial responsibility laws work in Europe since there is a strong safety net in place for things like healthcare. If the society has already assumed responsibility in one way or another for healthcare, for example, what sorts of things are children typically held responsible for?
Well, different things can happen. For example:

In country A there is a safety net. Elderly person can cover from it their expenses (however those benefits are getting smaller as the costs of living rise in Europe). Alas this person is slowly getting Alzheimer disease. Now he/she needs to be palced in a special care home. Here some of these homes require that this person covers part of the expenses (say 10 percent) from their own money. If the elderly person had some financial assets the welfare agency will size those assets in order to cover these costs. If the elderly peson has no assets but children they will try to get this money from his/hers children.

This is only one example but it works (among others) like that.

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