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How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:55 pm
by James_0011
I mean in terms of materialistic culture and career striving and speculating.

Basically I'm thinking about moving there for five years and van dwelling to save up some cash.

However I don't care about my career at all and only see it as a way to get free.

How status oriented is sv?

Thanks

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:13 pm
by Sclass
This much (...........................................................)

I'll get back to this when I'm done talking with my SO about how great it was to leave Los Altos after twenty years. We are discussing the culture of "striving and speculating " . Total crap from a bunch of people we knew who acted like winners who are in actuality losers.

More later.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:23 am
by Sclass
The chances of hitting it big out there are slim. Most of my peers had a little way of fooling themselves into working hard. Passion, hope or just stupidity.

Now for van dwelling and drawing the salary, that's brilliant if you can pull it off.

I lived in basements and converted garages for years while my peers were making downpayments on overpriced SV homes. The peer pressure to follow along with the SV orthodoxy is intense. People are fiercely competitive and dumb. I had to listen to a lot of insults about my living quarters. It made people feel insecure that I was doing something wildly different. As I said, people will be competitive and dumb.

Most of those same people are hitting fifty now struggling to pay off their homes, terrified of losing their jobs and being forced to compete with youngsters. The home is their only asset.

So if you are really going to live in a van, there's a good angle. One of my reports actually did this with a camper in the company parking lot. Some social engineering with security was all that it took. It'll work till you need a mate...in my case my SO admired my lifestyle and joined in. That is about as rare as pre IPO options in VM Ware.

Yes the place is kind of crazy. Or dumb. Or culturally bankrupt. Unless you count petty competition and materialism culture. But if you can extract the salary without buying the orthodoxy there is some hope.

Good luck. Luck counts out there.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:34 pm
by James_0011
@sclass

I shouldn't let my co-workers know I am van dwelling right? Just checking as my social iq is pretty low and I know nothing about office politics/games.

Or will it not matter in terms of making more money?

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:30 pm
by theanimal
I do not live in SV and have only seen one episode but... the television show Silicon Valley is said to paint a decent portrayal of the culture there. Might be worth checking out a few episodes (keeping in mind that some aspects may be exaggerated).

Otherwise look through Sclass's posts. He regularly shares stories and information (like the above) about those who bought into the culture and are finding themselves in trouble.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:12 pm
by BRUTE
probably a good idea not to share van-dwelling status with co-workers no matter where James_0011 lives.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:30 am
by James_0011
Ok thanks guys. I'll check that show out.

@brute, yeah that's what I thought. If a coworker told me they were living in a van I would think it was cool, but not everything thinks like that I guess.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:33 am
by Sclass
Yeah, I not only suggest not telling, I say have a straight up lie fabricated for the where do you live question that will come up. I dunno...young guys like to live in SF so you can say I live in Marin and I sometimes crash in my van when traffic is too bad. Or I have a place in Fairfield and I ultra commute and crash over with a friend locally when I'm too tired to drive home. Or I have a place in Santa Clara but I'm currently staying in my van because my girl/guy and I are fighting. He/she gets the flat for now.

Yes, people commented on my house. My car. My shoes. Think uber competitive nerds all trying to win the game. If they see you are using an edge they get really upset. I mean raising their voices in the company cafeteria literally thinking out loud, " but I can't do that! You live in a basement?! You must be living cheap saving lotsa money!"

It happened to me many times. Friends. Family. Coworker frenemies. They are all in pain trying to hit El Dorado. All of it by sacrificing starting from the childhood days of choosing to study for the SAT instead of going to the movies. Then they get to SV and start working like crazies...working dumb not smart for the most part, and you come along. Somebody who can sacrifice even harder and work smart.

Because you see, a van dweller doesn't have much of an ego. The other SV chimps are driven by big egos. It's the one thing they cannot sacrifice. "Oh I cannot do that! Oh I cannot drive that!" And I didn't even ask their opinion. They just blurted that crap out with a knee jerk when they heard what Kung fu I was using.

It's like a college girl telling her dorm mates "I strip one night a week to pay my tuition so I don't have loans." Then all the other miserable indebted coeds shriek "I can't do that!" Who asked them? The stripper was just telling her method of defeating the college loan devil. So why do the others fall on the ground crying kicking screaming pounding their fists saying "but I can't do that!" Who asked them anyway?

Don't do it. Blend in. Lie.

This happened at every place I worked. Guys were really worried and insecure if they found out where I lived or how I invested. Yep, one really smart nerd figured out by changes in his 401k deposit limits which employees participated in the 401k. They're that nosy.

Coworker's obsessed about my living situation. Heck, they were upset that they were living paycheck to paycheck and I was saving on housing. Pretty simple right?

So you will be dealing with a bunch of people who are willing to sacrifice to win. The valley filters for that mentality. They are competitive and they will lash out at you (well some not all) if you look like you're using an unorthodox method to beat them.

And here's the sad part. The nastiest type A engineers I used to work with, the worst score keepers and jealous types, are all still there toiling away. Because most of that behavior they're embroiled in is not getting them where they want to go - ahead.

Autistic, jealous, insecure, fearful types all tossed in the crab pressure cooker along with you. Pretty sight huh?

Man I can just think of the list of idiots in my head. All still doing the same thing. All presently asking about me through FOFs and LinkedIn. But too cowardly to message me and ask how I actually ended up kicking their ass and escaping the crab barrel. Big egos. Blinding egos. Once again never asking the right questions. Answers to which are too painful.

You're there to draw the "enhanced " salary. Don't get caught up paying the housing bill. Van dwelling is awesome if you can actually do it and sustain it. I found it hard enough renting basements and just fitting in. In all reality the worst part was getting annoyed by the naysayers...if I had to do it again I'd do exactly the same thing but I'd just say "blow me" in my head while they attacked me. But at the time I too was insecure and doubtful of my path. I let them get to me.

Good luck.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:17 am
by Did
@sclass Crab barrel, I like it ! (although I had to google it).

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:10 am
by Smashter
I lived in SF for 8 months last year. I worked remotely, but my core group of friends worked in tech. So, my perspective is not nearly as earned as SClass's, but my experience was not as bad. I did not deal with status hungry lunatics.

I found most people to be open minded if ERE-type stuff ever came up. My group of friends tended to enjoy biking, finding free activities, exploring Golden Gate park, boardgames, etc. They still loved going out to eat though. It seems like it's a raaaaaaare breed that can break out of the "let's do dinner and drinks and spend $60 bucks a person" cycle.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:53 am
by Tyler9000
I lived in SV for 5 years and worked as a mechanical engineer. Although we ultimately decided it was best to leave, my experience was not nearly as negative as Sclass on the interpersonal front. I suspect it's a matter of company size and culture, but the series of small companies I worked at were (for the most part) all fun and energetic with good people and generally a young workforce all excited about making something new. That was terrific up until the point where I realized that companies fed on that youthful energy and turned it into a superpowered new product treadmill with virtually no boundaries between work and home life. People love it until they hate it, at which point they leave. IMHO, the number one value in SV is dedication to your job. Not to the company by any means (job hopping is totally fine and generally encouraged), but to the working ideal of spending every waking hour thinking about being productive because there's so much competition that to pace yourself is to fail.
James_0011 wrote: How status oriented is sv?
I think it depends on your perspective of status. Fancy clothes are generally discouraged, and you'll be laughed at for wearing a suit to work. Fancy meals are definitely a big deal. Cars are status symbols as long as they're electric, otherwise they're looked down upon. Titles are mostly irrelevant unless it's CEO, which spurned a funny trend where every Millennial friend I knew had a "startup" on the side just so they could claim to be a CEO on Linkedin and at parties. Liberal political value signalling is mind-numbingly persistent.

I didn't live in a basement or a van, but my personal experience is that if I had I don't think it would have been an issue. Spin it as caring more about inventing a new algorithm than about mowing a lawn, and people will nod approvingly. I definitely wouldn't lie about it.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:10 pm
by James_0011
@Smashter

I really dislike eating out, so I think I am good on that front. What do you do that allows you to work remotely if you don't mind me asking?

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:11 pm
by James_0011
@Tyler9000

Ok that doesn't really sound that bad at all. Why did you decide to leave? Not enough work-life seperation?

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:34 pm
by Tyler9000
Working in SV helped us make and save a lot of money but leaving made us FI. Work/life balance was also a factor as well as family and overall culture.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:24 pm
by Smashter
James_0011 wrote:@Smashter

What do you do that allows you to work remotely if you don't mind me asking?
Online advertising and some writing. It's a unique situation where I am working with a friend. I doubt my next job (if I need to get one) will be as accommodating.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:32 pm
by slowtraveler
...

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:23 pm
by slowtraveler
I have a similar strategy to you of minimal housing expenses with nice pay then get out of SV.

Nobody here believes 1 million is enough to retire.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:39 pm
by James_0011
@Felipe,

Yeah its crazy what people think. I plan on pulling the plug at less then 400k, and moving to a cheap developing country. Should be easy to save up in SV.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:48 pm
by Sclass
I had a boss that got a $1m payout from a previous job. He told me "it sounds cool but who can retire on $1m?" He's still working for one of the majors.

Good luck. The last thing you want to do is take financial advice from your coworkers. They're no match for you.

Re: How much does it suck to live in silicon valley?

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:58 pm
by Tyler9000
Sclass wrote:I had a boss that got a $1m payout from a previous job. He told me "it sounds cool but who can retire on $1m?"
Yeah, as someone who didn't grow up in California, it always surprised me just how oblivious the natives are to the rest of the world. The money baseline you establish in your head really does get way out of whack living there for a while.