Feeling more judged than usual?

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
chicago81
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by chicago81 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:11 am

As I have lived through my early 30s and am now approaching 35, I can definitely say that the "amount of fucks given" to what other people think about me had declined significantly over the past several years.

batbatmanne
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by batbatmanne » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:49 am

I am the same age as you and can sympathize to a lesser degree. My situation is a bit different though because I do engage in more conventional things like owning a car, social drinking, etc. I'm lucky that some of my closest friends and SO are also vegan, so I have it much easier than other vegans in this regard I'm sure.

I do not look forward to socially dealing with being much more wealthy than my peers in the future. So far I have few savings since I have been more focused on acquiring things that I think will be valuable for me, so from the outside I do not look like I am behaving any differently. I'm sure many members on this forum wouldn't realize how much influence ERE has had on me from the outward trappings. All the better I say. One of the advantages of staying in academia is that people are less surprised when you come across as a bit of an oddball. I imagine that those inside of academia might be judgemental from another side of it though. Jacob and other members would have better insight into this than I would. It probably varies by specialty as well.

As far as advice goes, I think staying stealth is ideal when it comes to money, but you should wear some of your less bothersome eccentricities on your sleeve. I mean the kind that won't make people feel like you are in a position to judge them as an inferior. Make sure that you can relate to people on common subjects as well, and lead with this positive kind of interaction. If you can't relate to people on any common subjects then you should look for more like minded company elsewhere. When people push your buttons on subjects like money or veganism, that's when you should be more inclined to bite your tongue. If you can figure out what "wheaton level" they're on then you can tailor your interaction to the level above them and offer advice on this level if you think it would be welcomed. I have been more successful in talking to people with this consideration in mind.

A lot of people are very judgemental, so you will have to accept that some people who don't understand you will judge you negatively. Avoid them if you can. There are also a lot of people who will be more accepting of someone that they don't understand, as long as you make them feel comfortable and not like they are being subject to judgement by you.

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BRUTE
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by BRUTE » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:57 pm

chicago81 wrote:I can definitely say that the "amount of fucks given" to what other people think about me had declined significantly over the past several years.
yea, ~30 was when brute started developing hypofuckstogiveymia too.

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BRUTE
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by BRUTE » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:02 pm

batbatmanne wrote:Make sure that you can relate to people on common subjects as well, and lead with this positive kind of interaction. If you can't relate to people on any common subjects then you should look for more like minded company elsewhere. When people push your buttons on subjects like money or veganism, that's when you should be more inclined to bite your tongue. If you can figure out what "wheaton level" they're on then you can tailor your interaction to the level above them and offer advice on this level if you think it would be welcomed. I have been more successful in talking to people with this consideration in mind.
brute thinks this is very important. most humans who are "different" in some domain probably intuitively develop an understanding of wheaton levels, even if they don't explicitly express them in a table. others don't and find themselves in a life-long battle over terminology.

one great example in brute's mind is the difference between Milton Friedman and the Austrian Economists. both are effectively super deep into the free market camp. but while Friedman came across as gentle, understanding, and willing to compromise, the Austrians come across as offensive assholes that hated poor people (to humans low on the free-market wheaton scale). brute has no idea if Friedman was just naturally more empathetic or a skilled communicator, or if he developed an explicit wheaton scale.

brute, who also enjoys free markets, went through a similar transformation. first, he tried to convert everybody else to Austrianism. he fought with others a lot. then at one point it got boring and he developed an intuitive understanding of what ideas people could even understand/digest without their wheaton-allergies (<- wow) going off, like "zomg privatize roads? WHY DOES BRUTE HATE LITTLE OLD LADIES?".

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Riggerjack
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by Riggerjack » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:45 pm

What really bugs me TBH is not people's comments on my lifestyle, but their whingeing about their own. Maybe this is something that happens later. It's the "I could never afford to buy my own place" while they look at mine as if it has been gifted to me by angels. From people whose salaries are twice what mine ever was. And I can say, "Right, but if you saved that money instead of going to the Caribbean every year..." and they are still, like, "I need something to look forward to, or I couldn't get through the month." Fine, but accept that means you will never own your own house... but they don't accept it. They see what I have, and they think it's unfair--why should I have all this, when I never made it past the clerical grades? They forget I haven't had even the cheapest package holiday for 20 years. They think they are entitled to everything: the savings and the house and the holidays in the Caribbean.
Sometimes, this isn't a complaint, it is a communication style. By going on about all that is wrong, they are attempting to give you shared sacrifice to bond over.

It drives me a bit nuts, so I avoid such people.

Of course, my communication style tends towards challenging assumptions, which has a similar reaction from many people. Some would call this a problem (I hear Ego objecting as I write this). I consider it a solution.

There are far too many people on this planet to ever get to know. I find it a good practice to filter out those who bring nothing to the table.

Olaz, people are judging you. You are judging others, it's human nature. The only part you should be concerned about is the accuracy of your judgement. Let others do as others do.

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Riggerjack
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by Riggerjack » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:47 pm

WHY DOES BRUTE HATE LITTLE OLD LADIES?".
I assume it's the smell.

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Ego
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by Ego » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:01 pm

Riggerjack wrote: Sometimes, this isn't a complaint, it is a communication style. By going on about all that is wrong, they are attempting to give you shared sacrifice to bond over.

It drives me a bit nuts, so I avoid such people.
I know. It's horrible isn't it. :lol:
Riggerjack wrote: Of course, my communication style tends towards challenging assumptions, which has a similar reaction from many people. Some would call this a problem (I hear Ego objecting as I write this). I consider it a solution.
What? Why would I object to that? I love challenging assumptions, especially that one!

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Riggerjack
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by Riggerjack » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:51 am

Ego, you are a much bigger believer in social capital than I. Communicating in a way that helps people opt out of further communication, doesn't lead to much social capital.

I value ideas, and don't value consensus. My communication style filters out those who prefer consensus. I am left with people I often don't agree with, but have things to say, and thoughts worth listening to.

That is why I am here.

Augustus
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by Augustus » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:02 pm

Good chance you may also be all of those things. I look back and cringe at all the dumb shit I did when I was younger. You will probably do the same. My best advice is to take it to heart without actually loathing yourself, it's an opportunity for growth. Especially the douche comment, you probably did something offensive, and thus are a douche. Offending people should be avoided for practical reasons, it's a hassle and has repercussions. Part of becoming sophisticated is being able not to offend people who might otherwise find you offensive. Great example: religion and politics. The art of making people laugh and dodging offensive situations with charm is very valuable.

heyhey
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by heyhey » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:54 pm

Riggerjack wrote:
What really bugs me TBH is not people's comments on my lifestyle, but their whingeing about their own. Maybe this is something that happens later. It's the "I could never afford to buy my own place" while they look at mine as if it has been gifted to me by angels. From people whose salaries are twice what mine ever was. And I can say, "Right, but if you saved that money instead of going to the Caribbean every year..." and they are still, like, "I need something to look forward to, or I couldn't get through the month." Fine, but accept that means you will never own your own house... but they don't accept it. They see what I have, and they think it's unfair--why should I have all this, when I never made it past the clerical grades? They forget I haven't had even the cheapest package holiday for 20 years. They think they are entitled to everything: the savings and the house and the holidays in the Caribbean.
Sometimes, this isn't a complaint, it is a communication style. By going on about all that is wrong, they are attempting to give you shared sacrifice to bond over.

It drives me a bit nuts, so I avoid such people.
That is an interesting take on it! I never thought of that.
So, I am expected to say, "I know, and have you seen the price of Ferraris these days? How is a person supposed to survive?"
And then we can bond...?

I am with you on avoiding such people.
The idea of bonding with them, is not hugely attractive...

EdithKeeler
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by EdithKeeler » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:32 pm

I get stuff like that from time to time. The other day I got "You don't have a TV? Wow. That's weird... but sort of cool." Until they start paying my cable bill, I couldn't give a shit what they think of my lack of TV.

But what I've also found that's interesting is that, while I'm generally "out" about some of my weirder habits (messing with a garden, cooking food at home, not having TV, researching retirement stuff, etc.) I don't flaunt it, either. And recently I've noticed that some people who might have formerly been a little judgy ("wow, how old is your car?" and "You live in THAT neighborhood?") have started coming to me for advice about some stuff. Recently a coworker came to me and said "You mentioned that you think you'll retire early than 65. Like...how early? Because I really hate it here lately, and I'd iike to see if I can do it, too." Someone who's been a friend for years (and not judgy, though we have VERY different lifestyles) has been having some issues and called me and said "Hey, how much do you think we could save if we just used one car and banked the car payment? By the way, we just got rid of cable."

I wonder, too, if you have to think about their comments at all if you shouldn't take them as compliments. "Your room is so empty." and you can think "Ah, I've accomplished the degree of minimalism I wanted." Reframe and all that.

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BRUTE
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by BRUTE » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:41 pm

@EditKeeler: very good observations. brute has also made some of them.

1.humans hate being preached to, so brute tries to shut his mouth
2.humans sometimes want to emulate what they perceive as success, so brute will give advice/opinions when asked

steveo73
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Re: Feeling more judged than usual?

Post by steveo73 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:You aren't as far removed from high school as some of the greybeards here, but you could work on not giving as many fucks as you are giving.
This is about it. You will stick out for being a little different. That is the way it goes. People will hang shit on you. That is the way it goes. You can also not give a fuck.

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