Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

How to pass, fit in, eventually set an example, and ultimately lead the way.
Did
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Did »

I can't recall if I've already commented but I find not working is well received but not being rich or 'well off' is less so. I think to be honest you can be seen as a bit of a loser. It may be my direct or honest nature but I usally play down my financial independence (or near financial independence) and say, honestly at this point, that I'm looking for some remote part time work after 2.5 years.

Generally I don't give a f@ck how I am perceived, but I do find the dick measuring banter of older, more traditional retirees here in France quite excruciating. They are onto me in minutes trying to work out how we live and what we are worth. Bizzare! They boast of the number and worth of their cars as well as size of their house, number of trips and so on.

Little do they know the more they boast the more inefficient and wasteful I regard them. And I hold the thing they all to a man or woman desire the most: youth. I'm 20 years plus younger than all of them. So who is richer? They would trade their stupid cars that for that time in an instant, so I guess I am.

thrifty++
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by thrifty++ »

I am not FI yet so have no experience. However I can imagine the level of respect may come from their instant assumptions of why you are not working. If people were aware that you made many thousands of strategic micro decisions to achieve retirement young I think many people might respect you and be in awe.

The Old Man
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by The Old Man »

I think it is unwise to call attention to one's relative wealth. It makes you a target for con artists and other undesirables - not to mention gold diggers. When asked what I do for a living I give them my occupation - Engineer.

thrifty++
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by thrifty++ »

General snoopy totally agree! I almost never talk about my ERE plans to anyone in the real world. Thats why its great we can talk about it here.
Once I have retired I wont use that term I think. There will always be some project I am involved in that I can refer to.

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Jean
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Jean »

I usualy say that I play "heroes of might and magic 3".

startbyserving
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by startbyserving »

I like some of the other responses, that it's best to not be concerned by others or change the subject. I see Op has an open mind and has a lot to consider.

The following may not be applicable to Op, but does relate to this thread: After seeing "Stoic" mentality mentioned several times on this forum, I just finished reading "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" by William Irvine. I would do a book review, but my note-taking is still not up to par. For many things, I like the idea of Responding in a way that shows that you aren't obsessed with what the other person thinks (IMO this should be done without coming off as insulting / offending.)

One response, which I absolutely loved is for when someone that you perceive has poor judgement, judges or criticizes you. The idea is that if they have poor judgement and are criticizing you, then therefore you must be on the right path. So I would reply with, "I'm relieved that you feel that way about me" (Quote from the book, but I would just respond by saying it. Not mention that it is a quote.)

- At the end of the day it's best not to talk about ERE with most people. If you have a job, no reason to bring it up. Fortunately I've always been known by my Family and Friends as "Good with money". They won't be too surprised. I will still down play retirement. People tend to be envious and become someone else when they see $ signs in their eyes.

If you're 'retired' it seems the greatest success tends to be in not directly mentioning it as well:
"Lucky and receiving severance pay." , "Investing" , "Uber Driver" , "Consulting" all seem like good occupation answers to me. These should be pretty easy to answer follow up questions. (If you feel it is appropriate to answer) "What exactly is that?" , "What are your hours?" , "Does that pay well?"

- People like to talk about themselves, so if you inquire details from someone else they will typically focus on their life story and plans.

SimpleLife
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by SimpleLife »

I think they would if you had great assets as opposed to living ERE out of your RV or car. If you have $2 million in assets and are living a normal lifestyle without the excess consumerism, I think most people would respect that.

theanimal
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by theanimal »

@SimpleLife- Jacob is living a normal life style without the excess consumerism for a fraction of the price. MMM has assets pretty close to your example, while also living a much more luxurious life, and he also receives a ton of flak. I don't think it's the assets/normal lifestyle factor.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

The word "respect" is often used as a synonym for "admire" in modern parlance. The difference is that "respect" can be used as linear place marker up and down the simple scale of dominance or authority, but "admire" is inclusive of level of "trust." For instance, you trust Mrs. Santa Claus, you respect Genghis Khan, maybe you admire Teddy Roosevelt. If you are self-aware, you can choose to convey the message "I respect you." to somebody by the simple behavior "follow literal instructions." Therefore, if you are self-aware and you ask yourself the question "Am I respected?" , a simple way to get the answer is to observe whether others are following your literal instructions. Are there people who are attempting to follow the literal instructions of Jacob and MMM? Yes, there are. Therefore it follows that Jacob and MMM are respected by some people.

The reason why the word "literal" is included the description of respectful behavior is that it is a basic "brat" or "malicious compliant" move or argument to follow non-literal instructions and then submit failure as evidence towards rational basis for disrespect. As in, "Jacob told us to eat lentils every day. Eating lentils every day does not make us happy. Therefore, we should not follow Jacob's instructions. Let's go get dinner at the mall and then write a nasty post!" Of course, some dysfunctional opposites of the dysfunctional tendency towards being a "brat" might be "spineless doormat" or "sniveling sycophant" etc. etc.

Anyways, unless you are pure evil or idiotic, there are many situations in life in which you will prefer not to be respected because you do not want to take on the responsibility of the possible consequences if other people are following your instructions. For instance, you are a relative novice at scuba diving and a 10 year old is asking you for safety tips, then you might say something like "Go double-check with the instructor." IME, the worst thing that can ever happen to you in your life as an adult, is when you are in a position of leadership, your instructions are followed and other people suffer adverse consequences. For instance, the episode of M*A*S*H where Hawkeye yells for the woman on the bus to hush the infant because the enemy might hear them and the baby ends up dying from suffocation. If you only ever take authority and responsibility over yourself, never assume a position of leadership, then the worst thing that can happen to you will be something like you will suffer a slow painful death at the hands of Genghis Khan.

Of course, much of the time, or in many circumstances, what you want to convey or have conveyed, is something like "I am a respected adult in the company of other respected adults." When Did described the "dick-measuring banter" and sad-to-observe flirting with too young women of the older tourists he encountered, what immediately popped into my mind was the self-aware (he had a PhD in education/psychology) social behavior of a much older quite extroverted man I used to date. One thing he always did when he introduced me to other men was to give them their props, as in "Hey, Jim! 7W5, this is Jim. He is the best damn chicken plucker this side of the Mississippi. Don't ever let him get you alone in a corner (ha-ha-ha), but if you need some chickens plucked, then Jim is the man you need to call on." (Note that the skill-set of moi is not mentioned in this introduction because this is a situation in which I am being "baby-dolled" (valued for my relative youth and cuteness) rather than respected. American men born prior to approximately 1955 did not receive social training to respect women in this manner.) So, if you have no obvious profession or apparent skill set then you make it more difficult for another person to express their verbal respect for you, although they may respect it in other ways such as by giving you your space or sometimes challenging your space.

vezkor
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by vezkor »

"I'm an asset manager"

sharansingh
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by sharansingh »

Yes it would be, no job means no respect why? Not in my case.

ShriekingFeralHatred
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by ShriekingFeralHatred »

blah
Last edited by ShriekingFeralHatred on Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fiby41
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by fiby41 »

I won't mind.

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fiby41
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by fiby41 »

My one liner after I FI would be-

"I'm an engineer."

It satisfies Jacob's criteria by serving as both identity and purpose.

Scott 2
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Scott 2 »

IMO the negative responses result from challenging either the values or fears of the other person. With the very rare exception, people don't care about you, they just care about how you make them feel. Challenge their deeply held beliefs, and yeah, they'll lose "respect" for you. But it's really about protecting themselves, and has nothing to do with you.

I vary between not caring if someone that doesn't share my values likes me, and wanting to drill into their values to understand the difference. Having enough money makes this far far easier.

I generally avoid taking about what I do for money. The cursory details are incredibly boring to me, and going into the fun stuff would glaze everyone else. Also, any hint that I even might know how to even use a computer, is inevitably meet with the request for free tech support. I am not the Geek squad. That response trained me away from the conversation at a young age.

I don't see it changing when I stop working.

My usual response is something like "I don't like to talk about work, it alreay gets so much of my energy. I've been doing a lot of yoga though. Have you..." That's where they cut me off and talk about their yoga experience, etc. Again, most people really just want an audience that makes them feel good. I suppose the desire for respect is another variation of this.

Lately, I've been amusing myself at work by trying to discern people's agendas, then creating situations where they can further them. I'm pretty much there to have a good time, and it is highly entertaining. People get so excited when they are"winning" in their eyes. This behavior could map onto the what do you do question. It's usually someone with an agenda for a conversation about their own work.

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Sclass
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Sclass »

Scott 2 wrote: My usual response is something like "I don't like to talk about work, .
Good response.

I've thought really hard about this stuff during my four year retirement. I am not respected by some folks. Mostly family. But it is all tangled up with other emotions like envy and bitterness.

What I've come to is I don't really need respect anymore. That was something I needed when I relied on others to get by. Now I kind of write my own rules. The others can do as they please. It doesn't matter much what they want to respect.

If you can get to the place where you can pay your bills without reporting to a boss you may not have that hole in you that needs to be filled up by some other person's respect.

The converse is true too. I don't let some person's disrespect for my lifestyle eat a hole in me. I just look at where it's coming from and laugh.

Incidentally it was really apparent to me a few days ago in my closet. I looked at my fancy props (shoes, clothing, watches) that I no longer wear. I just don't need that stuff now. There is nobody left to impress now that I don't work in an office environment.

halfmoon
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by halfmoon »

A lot of thoughtful comments here. I'm trying to remember if it was ever an issue for us.

Everyone we worked with knew that we had animals and acreage. A waiter who regularly blew all his money on racetrack gambling once commented snidely, "I wish I could afford to have a farm like you." DH replied in the sweetest of tones: "Oh, you do have a farm. You're supporting some horses."

When we announced our plans to retire and move, there were some who asked how we could afford to do that. (I'm with @JP; why does anyone think this is an okay question?) I didn't take offense; I just said "We're retiring poor." Then I started asking people to give me their hand-me-down clothes instead of hauling them off to Goodwill. Lots of people did! We got some great stuff and donated the rest. :lol: DH was mortified. He hates it when someone compliments me on something I'm wearing, and I say "Thanks! I got it for 50 cents at a yard sale." It's my form of bragging.

When we were living in the mountains, most of the people we knew weren't traditionally (or often at all) employed. You were measured more by what you accomplished, because of course people will always measure each other by some standard. I think the key is: (1) what group of people do you respect; and (2) how do/would you stand with them. If there's a disconnect between the two, it's something to investigate further.

I respect people on this forum, but I couldn't care less what the people I used to work with would think of me now. When we left, lots of co-workers said, "Come back and visit sometimes!" DH said, "You will never see us again."

Did
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Did »

@halfmoon, my DW is mortified if I ever speak of a good deal I got on anything. I've had to stop doing it.

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Sclass
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Sclass »

:lol:

Every Christmas SO's dad gets drunk and does his best imitation of me. It always goes something like this.

Old man goes up to the tree and picks up a gift. Then says, "you know what this is?" Big smile. "A GOOD DEAL". Bigger grin. "I got a good deal on this!" Clutches the gift to his chest. "Oooohhhh sooooh good! A good deal!"

He puts me in in stitches.

Back OT...it's been five years since I quit my job and went "unemployed". That old man never asked me what I do or how I support his daughter. Not a peep. I asked my SO and she said on the week I quit he asked her "you have enough money?" She said yes and it never came up again. He's a sharp retired businessman so I'm pretty sure he gets it.

Eureka
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Re: Do others Respect you if you don't have a Job and ERE

Post by Eureka »

jacob wrote:Don't say you're focusing on something with zero potential income ... like I'm focusing on my yoga.
Ha! That is exactly what I say. That I want to focus on my yoga.

And in fact I know quite some people who make a decent income through yoga, especially those who publish yoga books or yoga DVDs - or make retreats for the average burned-out money-spending executive.

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