Why gift?

[Retiree]

I think our ubiquitous gifting is yet another manifestation of the consumerist nonsense. The only thing is, this one is more difficult to shake off than other consumerist crap.

Why on earth do we gift? It’s someone’s birthday, anniversary, whatever : and we immediately feel constrained to spend money to get something nice for them. If we’re averse to spending money, then we DIY up some gift, carve something nice, whatever.

My point is, why gift at all? What for? ‘Society’ (meaning the gift-ees themselves, as well as the gift-ors, as well as general lookers-on) seems to expect that we should spend on gifts at least on special occasions ; or, if we are cheapskates, then we should at least DIY up some nice gift. But why? Why do we imagine that the only (or the best) way to express happiness or love or whatever it is by further adding to the already indecently high pile of the other’s material possessions (whether by spending money or by DIY-ing)?

There’s something a wee bit sick, in my opinion, about this whole gifting madness. So it’s someone’s birthday : okay, say it’s my own birthday. You’re my friend and you remember, and you call me up and wish me, or you come meet me, shake my hand, perhaps give me a hug : all right. I know and appreciate your feelings. End of story. Why do I want you to be forced to fork up money on some gift, or spend hours making some little thing for me? What am I, some perpetually-starving monster whose insatiable hunger must be somehow propitiated with some material offering on every (or any) “special occasion”?

I mean, if someone does gift something to someone once in a while as true expression of what they’re feeling, spontaneously, that’s great (just like it is also great if someone spontaneously bursts into song, or spontaneously paints a picture, or spontaneously breaks out into a dance, or whatever) : but why should gifting be a template? I do hate templates and stereotypes! And this gifting stereotype it is so very difficult to get out of without appearing a total a*****e : I’m sorry to say I haven’t managed it at all well thus far.

I’m sure this gifting tradition is something the evil consumerist ogres cooked up back at the dawn of human civilization, as one sure way to push people’s thinking along destructive materialist (and more particularly, along consumerist) routes. Down with the consumerist ogres! And Down With Gifts! (Said the cheapskate eccentric a#####e, too cheap to even DIY up a gift, leave alone buy one.)

[EdithKeeler]

I give very few gifts. My mom's getting some roses planted in her yard for Mother's Day tomorrow. Our family did away with Christmas and birthday gifts years ago. I don't feel any obligation to buy gifts for anyone; I think I don't hang with a crowd that's into gift-giving anyway, and I have not felt a lot of social pressure, myself, to give gifts. I, personally, don't find it to be ubiquitous.

That said, I always bought gifts for the people who worked for me at Christmas, and always celebrated with a cake for their birthday. If a coworker or friend is having a baby, I'm the nerd who buys a savings bond for the kid. I hate shopping anyway, and when I do gift, it's all about the gift card if I don't give something handmade (generally baked goods or needlework).

[chenda]

It seems to be universal in all human societies. It may have originated as way to build trust through reciprocation, or convert perishable commodities into social currency.

Lots of products have rebranded themselves as 'gifts', (like fountain pens) as the gift market is apparently more recession proof and reliable.

[USAF Sgt]

I feel the same way about gift giving as I do about hugging. I want to give my wife a hug, and I want to give my parents a hug, but I have no want or need for a hug from my coworkers, casual friends, acquaintances, etc. It drives me nuts all the people I come across that want to hug. The same is true of gifts. I don't want you to get me a gift because we work together or because we golf together.

And when it comes to the people I do happily give and receive gifts from, there is a one gift limit per year, and that's on Christmas. Birthdays, mothers day, fathers day, valentines day, whatever other day, its about special deeds. It took a long time for me to get through to my mom that while I appreciate her willingness to go crazy with gifts on Christmas, I'd rather she focus that on one thing I'd like, want, and need, and spend the rest of that energy on spending time together.

[jennypenny]

@USAF Sgt--I love the *hug standard* for gift giving. It's perfect. If they don't rate a hug, they don't rate a gift. I'm adopting it immediately.

[USAF Sgt]

I'm glad you like it Jenny! Some people look at me like a leper when i say I don't like excessive hugging/gifting.

[Freedom_2018]

While excessive consumerist gifting is nuts (for example crazy gift buying during Christmas etc. but not focusing on spending time together as a family) gifting in general is a social lubricant, as is a kind word, a smile/hug. It is an essential and dare I say desirable part of being human.

Just because ERE principles don't advocate spending on consumerist stuff (rightly so), doesn't mean all gifting falls into the same category. Also different personality types respond differently to traditions.....for example I really don't care if someone remembers my Birthday or not but I know folks who would be quite upset if I did not acknowledge their Birthday via card/gift. So if I want to be friends with them (for their other redeeming qualities), I try and remember what is important to them and they sometimes surprise me on my Birthday etc...it even feels nice.

Since the tradition of gifting will not go away, maybe the OP can find creative ways to meet this...you know a win/win solution.

[7Wannabe5]

Well, it is supposed to be one of the five love languages. The other 4 are Quality Time, Physical Touch, Acts of Service and Words of Affirmation. A thoughtful gift is thoughtful and a useless gift is useless but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong or even in opposition to frugal lifestyle with the giving and receiving of gifts. There are some material things all of us need and gifting just requires the effort of making that consideration for another person within the realm of your own areas of expertise and/or hunting/gathering rounds.

[JohnnyH]

I love giving "good" gifts. Gifts I know will be used and improve their lives... I hate giving gifts because it is expected on a certain day, because these gifts are usually just clutter that will actually complicate their lives.

[jacob]

+1 ... but it's very hard to give a "good gift" in that sense. It's even harder to receive it as someone who has already optimized everything.

A lot of people like gifts simply because they like the thought/novelty/tradition/... then they turn around and sell it at their next yard sale, or it goes into the attic.

This is why I prefer consumables as gifts. It's an easy way out.

[7Wannabe5]

Everybody wants a jar of homemade pickled peaches, right? (I just reminded myself that I was going to experiment with pickling young maple leaves this spring then my Xmas shopping will be almost done. Just have to find some used copies of books I think other people should read and cut/fold/glue some recycled material snowflake pop-up cards.)

[Dragline]

Yup. Everything is better when pickled . . . Where can I pick them up?

[Retiree]

7W5 : You're right, there are times when gifts can be great. Pickled peaches, eh?

Johnny, your POV I fully empathise with and endorse. The problem is : far easier said than done !

Think, for instance, of your non-ERE GF's birthday. Or your young nephew at Christmas. Or your colleague's anniversary.

You'd think talking about it would help, but no it doesn't, except rarely.

US-Sgt, Jenny, the hug standard I like, but doesn't work in practice, does it, except perhaps as a joke/slogan? Unless one is totally indifferent to what people think. And if you think about the principle of the thing, then even the hug standard is too lax! I may well gift someone (huggable or not) five times in one month for some specific reason, but why *must* I, every year, huggable or not?

Personally I very often just let go and gift. Primarily because the wife's skin is far thinner than mine. But *how* it gets on my nerves, this &@%₹*¤ custom of gifting!

[jacob]

Maybe consumerist nonsense is just the way consumers have chosen to manifest it? Buying token junk.

I have a certain fondness for the "primitive people" attitude of abundance in that if someone else expresses an appreciation for something they posses (that's a nice cup), they insist on giving it away.

I would like to reach that level of abundance. Not there yet, though.

Also, that idea only works if it's culturally ingrained because I think it's meant to establish power/reciprocity. That is, if you can't return the favor at some point, then you granted power [over you] to the one who gave the gift. This way the most generous people gets the most social status. It's a beneficial idea, but easily exploitable.

[Retiree]

Absolutely. Much of consumerism is indeed rooted in generosity, in that sense of abundance, sometimes in courage, sometimes in sacrifice. In fact conmsumerism can sometimes be an act of self-abnegation, as in a man working hard his whole life away to keep his wife and children in a standard of living that is quite beyond his means.

My problem is : this would be *really* noble if this were a deliberate choice. If I thought this through clearly, and consciously made a choice to, for instance, work till I am 70 so my children can go abroad on vacations twice a year, so I can keep gifting my wife expensive jewellery every birthday and anniversary, there is indeed an element of selflessness here. But with most people, that's not how it is. They blindly follow what they think is a template, an unalterable sequence. And that lack of awareness and conscious choice is what makes consumerism (and gifting) stupid.

But yes, man is often noble, even in his stupidity. No gainsaying that.

[Retiree]

Jacob, thanks for pointing out one aspect of gifting I had completely overlooked, which did not strike me immediately on reading your last post on this thread, but took some time to sink in.

All jingoistic virtues do spring from a core of *real* virtue. Patriotism, consumerism, charity, usw, even bizarre things like feeling happy when "your" team wins a game, or the doctor working his life away to lessen human suffering, all of these ideas are built around, well, virtues. What makes them caricatures and dysfunctional is the straitjacket they very often become for most people, where a car is bought not for well-considered appreciation and use, and acts of kindness made simply to help, but more because it is the done thing, because that's the established norm. Which does not take away the core of virtue behind it all.

So it is one thing to critically examine one's own choices, but quite another to indirectly indict another's choices by looking down on the whole set-up.

And I am fully guilty of this attitude myself, I realize. I'm recalling the rather strong views expressed here by my more outspoken doppelganger in the thread on sports, for instance, as well as some of the discussions in his thread on philanthropy.

Seen in this light, gifting is a small personal choice. To see it as a universal problem is petty and mean, and a bit absurd.

So, in that respect, I do stand corrected. No more ranting against the gift-ogres!

[GandK]

@7wannabe5: My youngest son (3) has the Gifts language big time. It's adorable. He will thank you profusely for days for the smallest tokens, and he can tell you who gave him every single thing that he owns... toys, clothes, even who put his favorite snacks in the pantry.

No one else in our family is anything like this. We don't care about Christmas, etc. I don't see us buying the little guy more things because he has the Gifts language, but it's nice for the rest of us to feel so appreciated when we do. Because he sees gifts as loving gestures he's extremely grateful for whatever he receives.

Now if we could just teach him to share his toys...

[7Wannabe5]

@GandK- That sounds so cute. The gift-language adults I know tend towards being kind and artistic.

[steveo73]

+1 ... but it's very hard to give a "good gift" in that sense. It's even harder to receive it as someone who has already optimized everything.

This is the issue. I don't want gifts. I buy what I want. I also bought what I wanted to prior to deciding on working towards becoming FI so gifts are an all round stupid idea. If you spend money you have everything you want. If you don't spend money you probably don't need that much.

[Retiree]

+1 ...

Okay, I’m neither particularly computer-software-literate, nor am I particularly knowledgeable about Internet-speak. Would someone more abreast of either (or both) clear this up for me please?

I’ve often seen people use one of these two expressions to convey complete agreement with what’s being said : “+1” and “x2”. A sort of thumbs-up sign conveyed on print (on screen, actually).

“+1” sounds binary-ish to me. Is that right? So can I say “0” when I absolutely DON’T agree with something or somebody, or has only “+1” made it to common usage? And is there scope for expression of grays in this scale (as opposed to stark black and white—or is it just the one, only stark white)?

As for x2 : that I cannot even hazard a (reasonable) guess about. If you pointed a gun at me and asked me to make a wild guess (no reason why you should go around pointing guns, just saying), then I’d say I’m conveying here that my position is “exactly what you said, which is x, only squared (for emphasis)”. Anywhere close? Does this allow of negatives, like “SQRT x” for “sorry I don’t agree and you don’t know what you’re talking about”?