Why gift?

[jacob]

The +1 button is/was the equivalent of a facebook "like" for google+. x2 means times two, so essentially the same thing, although I don't think that was ever associated with a social media button. Only under the risk of displaying a case of severe noobishness should you ever make up your own math.

For future reference, whenever I don't understand what the kids are talking about, I look it up in the urban dictionary, e.g. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=%2B1

[Tyler9000]

A lot of people like gifts simply because they like the thought/novelty/tradition/... then they turn around and sell it at their next yard sale, or it goes into the attic.

This is why I prefer consumables as gifts. It's an easy way out.

Me, too. I usually get people a simple eclectic food item (or alcohol, if I know what they like) for Christmas. That way they can actually enjoy it without adding anything to the junk collection. Personally, I often find more pleasure in food than in stuff anyway.

For gift escalation warfare, one good strategy I've heard of (but not tried yet) is to request cash gift cards in lieu of stuff. Write the name of the giver on the card, and put it in a drawer. The next time you feel obligated to buy a gift for that person, use the gift card to purchase it. That way the gift costs you nothing, and is always in proportion to the gift they gave you.

[Devil's Advocate]

The +1 button is/was the equivalent of a facebook "like" for google+. x2 means times two, so essentially the same thing, although I don't think that was ever associated with a social media button. Only under the risk of displaying a case of severe noobishness should you ever make up your own math.

For future reference, whenever I don't understand what the kids are talking about, I look it up in the urban dictionary, e.g. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=%2B1

Yes, “display one’s noobishness” is right! Reading Internet patois is sometimes like reading a different language altogether! Although it is at least better than reading the cell phone messages that some youngsters tap out, and not only on cell phones. I do hope this trend turns uncool and old-fashioned by the time my kids reach their teens, the SMS contractions I mean, else I’ll have to re-educate myself to keep up with their in-speak!

Thanks for clearing up that bit about how “+1” came to be. Online sources do explain meanings, but not always provenance. I’ve never ever visited the Google+ website, and found your explanation for “+1” very interesting! Much like how the actual provenance of certain words turns out quite different from a common sense (and imaginary) attempt at tracing their origins. The Urban Dictionary people should put that in, much like OED and Webster talk of provenance of words.

So did they also have a button for “Don’t like” or “Dislike” or whatever, a “-1” button perhaps? Because I haven’t seen anyone say “-1” out here ever.

The origins of “x2” remain unexplained, though. “Multiplied by 2” does make some vague kind of sense, but one wouldn’t use that to indicate enthusiastic agreement unless it were already accepted precedent. Does anyone else have any idea on that one, on the provenance of “x2” to mean “Yes I fully agree”?

Okay, can I ask one more noobish question? People generally seem to add a "@" before a handle or pseudonym : how did this come to be, the provenance I mean? (I do know--as most others here will too I expect, it's very old hat by now--how the "@" in "name@emailid.com" came about : but this is a very different usage of the "@" character.)

[jacob]

@ means "at" and it's ancient, at least back to the early days of the internet. Before that (in the fidonet days of the 1980s) we used - as far as I remember.

[Devil's Advocate]

@ means "at" and it's ancient, at least back to the early days of the internet.

That old, eh? That's really ancient!

The sign @ actually stands for “at the rate of”. This was common usage in pre-Internet days, at least in certain specific areas and contexts if not everyday usage. I’ve often used that sign in that context myself, both in longhand and on a keyboard.

Here's a story, not particularly exciting and perhaps not even really true (but interesting in terms of how meanings of words and characters can change over time), that I'd heard a long time back.

Apparently when this whole ARPANET thing came up, the precursor to the Internet (this “fidonet” you mention there in your comment, is that the same as or similar to ARPANET?), this guy who first came up with the whole concept of emails (don’t remember his name) was looking for a likely symbol/character to use as connector. Not a regular character, naturally, else there would be confusion all round ; but it also needed to be already present on our regular keyboard. So he picked on the @ sign, more or less at random.

And thus, @ went from “at the rate of” to “at” in email ids, the new usage now far more common than the original context.

- - - - -

Now the usage I was referring to in my earlier comment is distinct from this. When people say, in these forums, “@YourHandle” instead of just “YourHandle” (as, for instance, you yourself do), it’s obvious what they’re doing and what they mean, but WHY are they doing this? How exactly did this particular usage come to be?

If I call you @Jacob rather than Jacob (or you call me @DA rather than DA), we’re not really adding any nuance there. (The capital letters—as in “Devil’s Advocate”, as opposed to “devil’s advocate” all in small letters—provide sufficient context to prevent confusion, for instance in the case of handles that are not proper nouns.) So why this additional usage of this sign?

I’m guessing, this comes from social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook. Entirely a guess.

I’ve never visited either site, but you do read about things like “hashtags” and people writing “#Ilikethis” or whatever. I have no idea why they do this, on those sites, but I expect there will be some technical reason, much like the “+1” “like” button you mentioned in Google+. And perhaps, just perhaps, another similar usage just like the # sign will be the @ sign to indicate user name in those signs (for technical reasons). And perhaps this is where this particular usage comes from? Because you need to be @Jacob when on Twitter, you out of habit (or convention) say @Jacob here as well, where there is no technical necessity to add that thingy in front of your name/handle?

So, does what I say in that paragraph above make any sense, or am I wrong? Perhaps you could clarify, Jacob, unless like me you too keep away from these websites : in which case can anyone here who’s used Twitter and Facebook clear this up please?

[Devil's Advocate]

People generally seem to add a "@" before a handle or pseudonym : how did this come to be, the provenance I mean?

When people say, in these forums, “@YourHandle” instead of just “YourHandle” (as, for instance, you yourself do), it’s obvious what they’re doing and what they mean, but WHY are they doing this? How exactly did this particular usage come to be?

If I call you @Jacob rather than Jacob (or you call me @DA rather than DA), we’re not really adding any nuance there. (The capital letters—as in “Devil’s Advocate”, as opposed to “devil’s advocate” all in small letters—provide sufficient context to prevent confusion, for instance in the case of handles that are not proper nouns.) So why this additional usage of this sign?

I never did get an answer to that one.

Here’s the funny thing. I generally asked about this generally a few times, in the “real” world I mean, of people who participate more than I do in online discussions (which, it seems, it just about everyone) : and everyone uses these thingies, and no one seems to know why.

One kid (he’s still in school!) tells me that sign’s used to ADDRESS someone. So I can address the other person when online, so : “@theotherperson, I’m speaking to you”, but I can’t use it in the third person, like so : “I was speaking to @theotherperson”.

But people do use the @ in the third person all the time here. So usage goes against this kid’s rule. And since this is entirely about usage, and not even remotely about actual grammar or actual philological roots (unlike ‘real’ words), I’ll say he’s wrong.

One thing using that @ does is to make a name reference stand out. Even when in a mass of text. So perhaps that’s the reason? Although why would you want a name reference to stand out, really? In general I mean?



It’s fascinating, this, how you see a new language (or at least, a new form of patois) develop right in front of your eyes. Philology on steroids, going fast-forward. The acronyms, for instance. I enjoy looking up the acronyms that I come across here, and see Urban Dictionary (or some other "cool" friend of Google’s) transform apparent gobbledygook into clear and very apt meanings. Pity this new strand of our language is probably too ephemeral to really last … or who knows, with practically everyone online these days, not just the kids (who’ll soon outgrow being kids), perhaps the changes will be deeper and longer-lasting than with the SMS-lingo of a decade back?

[IlliniDave]

I suspect the "@" means "this is directed at", which is a bit impersonal. I generally only use it when conversing with people who used it to address me. Overall, I've noticed it is relatively uncommon in the few forums I participate in.

[jacob]

@DA - When used in the sentence, it's a twitter thing where the @ is part of the handle or account name. In forums @ is not part of the account name and here it simply means "at" (directed to) and it would be conventional to use it to indicate the recipient in any electronic communication which doesn't have an obvious recipient, e.g. addressing a specific person in a large group of persons. Using @person in the middle of the sentence would look silly [in a forum]. On twitter, however, using @person would ping whoever gets mentioned.

[GandK]

I suspect the "@" means "this is directed at", which is a bit impersonal. I generally only use it when conversing with people who used it to address me. Overall, I've noticed it is relatively uncommon in the few forums I participate in.

This. I can't speak for everyone, but I use it when I'm directing a comment "at" a person and I haven't quoted them as I just did you. And that's how I almost always see it used. I usually preface my comment with it if it might not otherwise be clear that I'm addressing that person.

And I have used it in the 3rd person/object area of the sentence occasionally, as @DA mentioned above , if my comment is not directed at someone but making a reference to him serves a purpose in the discussion.

[fiby41]

I haven't celebrated any birthday since 4th grade in part because because I didn't like the gifting and gift-receiving and people used to still bring them even when politely asked not to. I don't regret anything.

[fiby41]

Using @ after names is as old as emails but using @ before usernames as in @Username is relatively recent and popularized due to twitter handles that start with @.

We don't have much use for them on here because we are a tight-knit community where everyone almost knows everyone else who is active and have easy to remember usernames. But in other forums where lots of people are commenting on same thread at the same time, it gets difficult to keep track of all of them. Especially if they have weird alphanumeric usernames. There @ has widespread use.

[sharansingh]

Nothing mends a woman's feelings than a special gift from her man. Want to know the other reasons why it's important to your relationship?

[fiby41]

In The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Humphrey Bogart is part of a doomed mining party returning to town to get medical care for an injured man. They meet some locals, and before discussing medical help the two groups exchange gifts. Bogart notices a strange fact, "We give 'em our tobacco, they give us theirs. I don't get it."