My parents announce TARP for siblings

[wheatstate]

S-Class, congrats on forging your own path. You are talking with your dad as a peer. Your siblings are still children.

Is your father a betting man?....
If so, you should bet him how quickly your siblings will spend the money.
If he wins and the siblings live within their means, you give him a small luxury, he gets to be "right" and you get FI siblings for the future.

If the siblings continue their lavish lifestyle and waste the money, you get a significant share of what the other siblings get.

This bet could be a good challenge to your father that the money will disappear quickly.

Good luck and keep playing your winning hand.

[chicago81]

I have quite a different scenario with my parents and sibling. My sister and brother-in-law aren't terrible at managing their finances. But they have deliberately made career choices that result in fairly low incomes. I don't think they are living "very" far beyond their means, but they aren't really able to save any money, so they rely on my parents when "emergencies" or large "one time expenses" come up (stuff like car repairs, their wedding, and my parents did pay for a percentage of my sister's college expenses.)

I have not received any "economic outpatient care" from my parents since "leaving the nest". However, whenever I travel to see my parents, they remind me what the "running total is" for how much $XX thousands of dollars they've helped my sister, and are expecting for the amount to be "made up to me" when they pass away and the assets are divided up. I think they have even gone as far as to put this into their will. I have made it clear to them on several occasions that it did not matter to me one way or another, and that if they wanted to help out my sister and brother-in-law, that it was their money and their choice to do whatever they want.

I suppose that this situation is very different than the original poster's situation, simply because of how it seems that your parents want to be able to maintain a certain aspect of "control" over the relationships within your family. That is very sad and unfortunate.

[ohcanada]

We'll at least you don't have the reverse. My mom is often begging for money from us because she is extremely in debt and has managed finances horribly her entire life, living payday loan to payday loan and off handouts from family members.

[Felix]

This treatment sucks. But from what I gather there has been something growing for quite some time. Your attitude seems to be one of wanting your siblings to fail so you could show that you were right. Now, with the bailout, you may not have had the malevolent retribution you wanted, but all your points were validated in a way. Your parents, through their actions, have accepted that you were right all along, that you are going to do fine no matter what and that your siblings can't make it on their own. While the way they do it is bad (doesn't harm you, though), I guess many people never get that strong a confirmation of their position from their parents or family in any form. And now, as others have pointed out, you won't have to take anyone's shit anymore. In a sense, this was an act of capitulation. You were right and they all accept it now.

If you want to repay their smugness with interest is up to you.

[Dream of Freedom]

Do you really want to screw with him? Tell him how much you love the idea. "You know dad, I was a bit pissed at first, but the more I thought about it the more I like it. My sis and bro will have to kiss so much butt and for what? You don't get fi just by having a lot of money. You get it by deciding what it is you really want and buying those things. You let the rest slide. They never did understood what they want, so they want everything. No amount will buy them everything. They get fake FI and I get to watch bro get humiliated more cause daddy didn't think he could do it himself. This is too good."

[arrrrgon]

Man, we've got some angry people on this forum

I see this opportunity differently from many of you. Obviously it's hurtful for your parents to act this way, but you now have a choice. You can choose to mend the relationship with your brother and sister and help them to understand how FI works and how they should deal with this money. The other option is to watch them crash and burn (which is inevitable without your knowledge unless the money is put into a trust or something).

It's really your choice sclass. I realize they could choose not to listen to you, but that would also be their choice.

At the end of the day they're still your family, so unless they've done something to hurt you irreparably (my grandma has done this with our family) maybe you should think about how your knowledge can help them.

[before45]

Sounds like a very painful situation, with all sorts of passive aggression being added by your dad.

But it sounds like what's painful is not so much what happens to the money as why. I find my feelings about the same result can be massively different depending on whether it was my choice or not. For instance, I recently told my folks that I am FI and expect nothing from their estates, and that they should feel free to leave everything to my sister, because she is not good with money and will need it, and I don't need it, and I don't want to have to support her in her poor old age

So I got the same result as you did, but I felt awesome because it was my choice. I know this wasn't your choice, but maybe you can consider that if it had been up to you, you might've chosen the same result you got--to let your sibs have your parents' money because you don't need it. You might even re-write the conversation in your head. I am a big fan of (safe) self-delusion for the sake of happiness when necessary, if that makes sense.

[SimpleLife]

First off, let me say it is perfectly reasonable for you to be very upset by this. If I was in your shoes, I would be LIVID!

The sad fact of the matter is, corporations, parents, government, and society as a whole rewards stupidity and laziness (no offense to your family, just talking in general) while punishing intelligence, self discipline, and hard work. Smile, people love morons is true!

As another poster said, I'm certain your siblings will piss that money away in no time.

[JamesR]

Sclass,

"son I cannot have you having so much more than your older brother. It is hard for him to accept it. He walks around not respecting himself. His wife doesn't even respect him now"

This comes across as very non-western culture thinking to me. Or a complete BS excuse.

[GandK]

Late to the party here...

Honestly, I'd be pissed, too. And it would be hard to swallow. And I'd resent my family. And it would feel to me like I paid my dues and my siblings didn't. And the thing that would piss me off most is that you did without so many things to get where you are, and now they're at the same place without ever making sacrifices.

Sidenote: And how the hell your dad thinks that him bestowing money on your brother will make your brother's wife suddenly respect him more is inconceivable to me.

The good side is that LBYM - and being happy with it - is a skill. You have it. They don't. They'll be happy for a while, I'm sure, and use this as yet another opportunity to feel superior.

But that will wear off.

I'd also go the Dream of Freedom route and thank Dad. He has a horrible way of showing it, but what he basically said is that he thinks you're strong and he thinks they're weak. I'd acknowledge that in conversation.

[Seneca]

S-Class, congrats on forging your own path. You are talking with your dad as a peer. Your siblings are still children.
Is your father a betting man?....
If so, you should bet him how quickly your siblings will spend the money.
If he wins and the siblings live within their means, you give him a small luxury, he gets to be "right" and you get FI siblings for the future.

If the siblings continue their lavish lifestyle and waste the money, you get a significant share of what the other siblings get.

This bet could be a good challenge to your father that the money will disappear quickly.

Good luck and keep playing your winning hand.

Great post, this has been my solace when having feelings like Sclass.

Sclass,

"son I cannot have you having so much more than your older brother. It is hard for him to accept it. He walks around not respecting himself. His wife doesn't even respect him now"

This comes across as very non-western culture thinking to me. Or a complete BS excuse.

I think this S-class's parents are doing exactly what we do in larger society with money in western cultures.

[GandK]

I think this S-class's parents are doing exactly what we do in larger society with money in western cultures.

Me too. Everybody gets a trophy.

[SkaraBrae]

Parents dole out support in an uneven fashion sometimes. My wife has 3 siblings. As the youngest her mom taught her to be independent and not to need anyone. The one time we asked for money was when we got married. They balked at this request so we eloped and got married in private. That act drove a wedge as she demonstrated she was not beholden to them. As a result our relationship is more as equals while the older kids are still dependent. It really has worked out because it is easy to not be guilted into doing anything we don’t want to.

Quoted for truth on all levels. My parents at first refused to provide me economic outpatient care when I requested it (I was young and dumb). I took a "fine, eff you then, I'll do it myself" attitude and have done pretty good by it. Later they would occasionally try to pay for stuff as a means of control, which I put a quick end to.

They didn't like that independence, so they coddled my younger sister instead. It continues to this day. Naturally, now my mom wants to give my sister twice the inheritance she wants to give me. And also have me be executrix of the will. I declined.

[Andy Dufresne]

SClass,

I was browsing through old forum posts and lucked into this thread. It made me think about my own family situation (spoiler - too many parallels to make for a pleasant conversation). However, since its roughly 7 years ago, and since in The Millionaire Next Door they show pretty clearly that economic aid to children does nothing for them, I am wondering (if I may be so bold) - did these lump sums help your siblings get their financial life in order or did they just spend it/squander it?

Much appreciation for your candor and your writing style!

Andy

[Lemur]

Interesting follow-up...

[Sclass]

Wow what an old thread.

I’m not too sure how to answer. Stanley suggested that being an economic outpatient child is ruining. Too spoiled to work so to speak.

The money changed them differently.

I also have a different vision of success than that book.

Did the money help them get their houses in order? Yeah I think so for my full siblings. They’re typical upper middle class professionals. An injection of a few dollars into their battered financed is a big help. They won’t eat dog food in retirement.

My half siblings are still pretty young. One is just out of prison for murder and narcotics trafficking. The other is still in grad school. I’m not sure what they’ll do with their cash.

What I didn’t realize when I started this thread is that my parents just wanted to control their kids with money. At this point they’d grown frustrated with me. At the end of the day I just wanted my mom and dad to welcome me back and tell me I was good and they were wrong about me. Kind of childish but it sucked me into their web. I was a much juicier morsel for them to use as their world spun out of control. I wish I’d just left them to my brothers and sisters.

Just another example of a bunch of people not understanding what each other want nor how to get it.

It’s almost over. But I still never got my parents’ approval. The money is just a number to an ERE person.

[ertyu]

Thank you for sharing this Sclass. Like many others, I see many parallels, down to wishing my parents would somehow like me or be proud of me and my success -- but we clearly can't have that, because respecting me and what I have achieved would mean letting go of control. How nice, instead, to keep showing ertyu his place so he doesn't get too big for his britches. My parents cannot control me with money because, like you, I have my house in order. But they do give money to my younger sister and seem to enjoy keeping her dependent. Maybe it's just an enjoyment of being needed and trying to escape the irrelevance of age, but it hurts me and i can't find it in me to respect it. My sister, in turn, is way too glad to act how she knows she's supposed to as long as it gets her my parents' continued financial assistance. I can't respect that either. I am too independent and respect autonomy and self-reliance.

I guess the tl;dr: here is, I understand how these issues can dredge up anger and hurt on a scale few other things in life can. It's the same for me.

Maybe I'm projecting, but I'm glad your parents are dead. I'm glad you got to continue on without them and their shit and to begin healing as you acquire distance from them and their machinations.

[IlliniDave]

Agree in saying thanks, Sclass, for being willing to share some of the harder facets of life. I'm seeing something similar play out but from the opposite perspective with my aunt. She's not hugely wealthy in an absolute sense but is the wealthiest in the family. Never had kids so with our mom gone my siblings and I are her sort of default family heirs. She's asked me to be executor which is how I know all this. Half she's leaving to charities and the other half is split between my siblings and myself.

But not equally--she's doing it somewhat merit-based as she rates it. And it works out to be nearly inverse to what a need-based bequeathal would be. Unfortunately that means somewhat more will pass to me than my siblings, mostly based on her degree of disapproval with how we use money. An example is that one of my sisters gets decremented because she's the mother of the family ne'er-do-well and she wants to minimize the amount that might make it to him and his bad habits. My brother gets dinged for his relative prioritization of top-shelf booze and expensive dining, etc.

Being the only other family accumulator I'm judged to handle money wisely so more is earmarked for me. The rationale is more that I'll be the family's last line of defense when it comes to money for what she considers legitimate needs, as well as confidence I'll behave more prudently with it overall, rather than her liking me better--she's closer to my sisters than to me. Worse perhaps is that she's trying to do the unequal weighting stealthily so feelings aren't hurt. The difference isn't huge compared to an ere stash, but all my siblings are operating around ereWL 1.25 so it's a lot to them. If she sticks to her guns, but the truth does come out, I'm likely to be the target of some angst for the sin of being "the favorite" and the whole situation being "unfair". Or worse if they convince themselves I somehow acted corruptly as executor.

I guess the point of all that is that the dynamics of the situation are often messy. I really don't even like thinking about the situation with my aunt much less talking about it. I worry about it with my own estate plans and it's a big driver in my simpleminded Stash(iDave)/N, N=2 so far, per stirpes, approach.

[Sclass]

-- but we clearly can't have that, because respecting me and what I have achieved would mean letting go of control.

@ertyu - wow. This really cleared it up for me. I couldn’t quite see it till I read this. Wisdom like this helps me grow up.

@ID your aunt actually sounds pretty sensible. Being the last line of defense may prove out to be a thankless job though. I guess you’ve already figured that out.

[Andy Dufresne]

Just sent you a PM, SClass, but THANK YOU!