Dealing with Jealousy

[dalralmi]

I've been depressed at my job now since I started (5 years ago). I've been working towards ERE, but slowly, however I've also been building emergency funds while saving 35% of my income towards 401k or other savings (not as extreme as others, but still!) I've also been paying down my mortgage double and have no other debt. So I decided to give notice and find something more enjoyable for me (prolonging my ERE, however I'm hoping a different job even at a pay-cut will help the depression and find me better coworkers).

Problem is even though everyone I know has been told numerous times about my plans to retire early, and they all know I am frugal they are now becoming irate and jealous. We talked about this stuff all the time, especially when they kind of roll their eyes at me in the past when I don't go out for drinks after work etc. Now when I try to have conversations with them about how my coworkers are taking the news of me leaving, and how I'm anxious and worried for my future since I don't have anything lined up right now, they tend to snap back at me.

One of my closest friends who is still working, living paycheck to paycheck, and pregnant basically told me that I'm so "lucky" to have the opportunity to quit my job and be financially secure for 2 years if needed (more if I dipped into tax penalty funds) because nobody gets that opportunity in life. Basically saying I am just "lucky" that I don't have to worry about money. It really frustrates me that I feel like I can't talk to anyone or have anyone be happy for me that I've "worked hard/saved hard" to have the opportunity to quit, or live on my own without stress of money at 26. It was fine when I was working and "suffering work" with them... but now that I don't have to "work" for things has made a lot of my friends jealous.

I am afraid that now I'm going to be losing a lot of my friends (and even family... who keeps telling me I don't understand things), and being an introvert makes it hard to make new ones. How have people dealt with similar situations?

[jacob]

You're hitting some cognitive dissonance on part of your friends. Empirically, this is the best way to deal with it:

1) Don't tell people about your plans (most people think that work must be endured until age 65). At best, only hint about the plans. Never ever talk about such things all the time unless you're in friendly territory.

2) If you don't want to spend money on drinks, don't say you're saving for retirement (most people don't think that this is something one can save for, especially not at your age), rather say you're saving for the down payment on a house.

3) Don't say you're financially independent. Most people don't know what that means. Just say you're taking a break to live off your savings until they run out while looking for something else.

In short, don't challenge their world view in which work is for complaining about and money is for spending and paying bills. If you have to explain yourself, there are acceptable things which you could in theory be choosing (down payment, living off savings) which will lead to the same goals as FI/RE.

[sshawnn]

After much of my own trial and error concerning this, Jacob's is sound advice. Hopefully you will have someone around your workplace that "kinda" gets it.

[theanimal]

+1 to what Jacob said.

A big key is to just avoid the r word (retirement). That just puts a picture into people's heads that is distorted from reality. I've been able to have one friend understand what I'm doing and want to follow suit but that's all. And that came after repeated skepticism and push back. I think it would be very rare for someone to have everyone they know understand. A lot of people just don't like to think and they are set in their ways.

[slowth]

Jacob nailed it. I can talk to my father about FI/ERE, and I get the impression he's somewhat proud/impressed that I'm able to save so much. But even he can't understand how you could stop working for the rest of your life before at least the age of 50. I've explained it to him many times, and he's a smart man, but normal people don't understand. He even talks about it with his friends, about how his son is going to retire early, but he always follows with "He's not going to stop working completely at his age, of course. He'll have to find something to do part time, I'm sure."

I don't think you'll have much luck finding others like you out in the wild. That's why we come here. Thank you Jacob.

[Tyler9000]

Crude but effective comparison: One does not simply walk into a room of fat people and expect praise for how much weight you have lost.

Jacob's advice is sound. It's better to discuss things like this in a community with a common interest than to expect everyone to be supportive. Web forums like this are great, and meetup groups are also a good go-to for more direct human interaction. Live quietly by example and the more receptive friends will probably approach you for advice, opening the door for some good conversations.

[Ego]

Now when I try to have conversations with them about how my coworkers are taking the news of me leaving, and how I'm anxious and worried for my future since I don't have anything lined up right now, they tend to snap back at me.

Jealously has many forms. "Wow, I'm jealous that you have the luxury to quit a job you hate. I wish I could do that!" That's not necessarily a bad form of jealousy. It may actually get them moving in the same direction. On the other hand, a friend who is angry that you have the luxury to quit a job that you hate.... that person isn't really a friend at all. That's the kind of person you want to avoid.

[dalralmi]

Thanks guys!

To clarify on Jacob's comments. I very rarely if ever mention the R word to people other than a "I hope to retire early (never mention EXTREME early)" or "I max out my 401k to Front load so I can give less money later. Normally they are on board with that.

When I skip drinks I mention either I don't drink, or I would rather save my money for something else (big trip, video game, etc...). So I never mention ERE in any form.

The main thing that grinds their gears is the fact that I can just "quit" (no where near my ERE.. probably 5-9 years away and probably longer now that I'm taking time off of my current job) with nothing lined up and can sustain myself. It's a luxury they don't have, and I feel like they compare it to a rich kid who just had everything handed to them.

Only a couple people even know why I'm leaving work, the majority of people I just told "I'm leaving for personal reasons and I would prefer not to mention where I'm going." Cause I know mentioning ERE is Taboo.

The mere fact that I have a savings account seems like this strange concept to someone. I am not asking for "praise" in any sense of the word, I was more just hoping for having people to talk to about recommendations for a different job, or even complain about the current job and boss like we normally did. Now all of a sudden It's like I'm this person they can't talk to anymore. Some of these friends aren't even coworkers. The mere fact that I have the ability to not have a job while looking for a job has suddenly made some of my friends stop hanging out/talking with me. I find that annoying.. and am on the lookout for new friends.

Thanks for the advice guys!

[lilacorchid]

You are going to change friends throughout your 20s anyway. I only talk to two people from high school and one person from college. (I see others from college around because we work in the same field with limited employers in the area, but I wouldn't consider them friends.)

I lost a few friends when I changed life stages, and gained a few too. I expect the same will happen when I don't have to punch the time clock anymore, though being a woman, people aren't as suspect of the idea. They just assume I want to be a kept woman or housewife. (Even had that suggestion as an ERE strategy from someone posting here, lol!)

[Dream of Freedom]

You saved hard for this. Get the word out that you saved hard for this.

I'd go to the biggest gossip or lunchtime group I could find and have a conversation something like this:

Them: Sooo, hows Dream of Freedom today.

Me: Frustrated, you know. Jose has a nice phone. Don't you think I want one? Abner shows off his new pickup and I'm happy for him even though it makes me feel bad about my ten year old car with a dent in it. I SAVE MY ASS Off. And when I finally get to enjoy a little time at of the workforce everyone around me acts like I just ran over their puppy. I tell ya.
(shakes head and exits stage)

[1taskaday]

Congrats Dalralmi well done on all your hard work to get to a place where you have choices.

I am so happy for you-you are a "super clued" in,intelligent individual at such a young age.

I could write a book on work-peer's jealousy, negativity and bitchiness,but what is the point on dwelling in that low frequency energy,it will only get you down.

Be careful who you choose to spend your time around,only hang out with positive vibrant people-it really works and will uplift you.

If you keep your own energy levels high and positive you will only attract the same type to you,the naysayers will find their own type to whine to.

I have heard Jacob's advice many times BUT why do we have to keep quiet about the things that fire us up and makes breathing worth while?

Surely it is better to be true to ourselves and lead an authentic life than hide for fear of displeasing the mob.

I really don't care anymore who I displease with my opinions,maybe this strength comes with age ...

Everyone knows that there is no pleasing or reasoning with the mob,they are fickle and will bay for blood no matter what the circumstances.

Let them suck it up,and you know what they say "success is the greatest form of revenge".

[dalralmi]

1taskaday and Dreams for Freedom hit the nail on the head! I like your idea Dreams of Freedom. I may have to pull the "everyone makes fun of my flip phone (not smart)" and the fact that I drive a 9 year old pick up truck, and that I "have no fun" and now it's like WAIT how can you have money?

I need to get more active on this board. I may start a journal detailing my new life of depleting my savings account while job hunting.

Thanks again everyone. this board is like an instant support group of like mindedness and helps me remember I'm not insane!

[Sclass]

Jacob's words are the voice of experience.

Number 3. Tell people you're taking time off is good. My parents keep telling our family friends that. At a dinner when a 62 year old friend asked me what I'm doing now I gave the "I'm retired" line without a blink. Dad jumped in and said "he got very sick and needed a period to recover and is taking some needed time off". Wise.

Dalrami you're going to get a lot of this attitude from people. You're just going to have to pick those that you tell. In one of the Robert Kiyosaki (I'm not a fan of this huckster but bear with me) books he said as you get richer you'll lose friends and make new ones. I didn't think much of it when I read it but now it has happened to me. First I don't have the same challenges to gripe about as my old friends. Less in common. Further, we just don't agree on much, like what money is and what it should be used for. I don't really miss arguing with these guys about who is doing the right thing. Lastly they (we) were all class conscious, but now their attitudes about money strike me as middle class. I don't like it. The good news is I found new friends and FI people that were mere acquaintances have pulled me in after finding out I retired. They all are looking for the next deal or angle and just want to talk.

Jealousy was a big problem at school and work for me. The most common manifestation I hated was insecurity and nosiness. I had guys asking me what I did over the weekend just so they knew I didn't do anything more fun than them. If I said dirt biking, they'd scoff and say how mindless and unevironmental it was...while being jealous. And they'd ask about personal finances. Pretty darn low class for a bunch of Ph.D physicists and engineers. I hated it. "you're livin cheap, you're saving a lot of money! You're just gonna up and buy a house (a holy grail among employee class)! We know you save a lot living in that guys basement! I couldn't do that I just couldn't!"

Everytime I'd say something the same guys would say things like " I didn't know you did that " as if it was their business to know. "where did you go, who did you go with, how did you get invited, who did you know there?" followed by "well I didn't know that!"

One day I got pissed off and told one of the folks that's because you don't have ESP.

The worst form of jealousy was schadenfreude. I once severely injured my ankle starting a motorcycle that kicked me on a trail ride. I came limping in and one of the nosy jerks asked me what happened and started laughing. Same guy who asked me how I could afford my neighborhood.

They'll be gone. You just keep mining that salt and stick to your plan.

I had to listen to all these insecure guys think out loud to me. Been there done that. You don't like it? Don't worry, you'll be done with those losers soon. I thought I'd want to go back and visit those fools to slap them around a bit but I don't. I'm not the type. It just annoyed me a lot at the time.

Edit - oh yah, one more thing. Whenever I'd get really flustered with these guys I'd just ask myself if I'd like to be them. Would you trade places or do you just feel sorry for them. Their harassing you is just a kind of lashing out in pain. It hurts an achiever to picture a competitor breaking away. Nonconformists fall quickly into their sights.

[jacob]

I hope the prudes will forgive me for being crude, but someone once said that "Religion is like a dick; it's a fine thing to have and be proud of, but you shouldn't be waving it around in public". Now, consumerism is akin to a religion (a matter of faith and strong belief) and it can rightly be said to be dominant faith of the world when measured by actual realized action rather than intention and words.

Now ERE is also a kind of religion but it is a sacreligious minority faith.

Therefore what can you possibly gain by challenging people's core beliefs and engaging in holy wars other than a brief sense of satisfaction?(*) They're very unlikely to change their minds. Even if you're making a rational argument, a scientific thinker is exceedingly rare. On the flipside of this is the all to common "I'm not really talking to you as much as for the benefit of the audience". If this is the only way to find an audience so be it. An audience which turns into allies is certainly great; far better than being alone. However, you gotta wonder whether direct confrontation is the best way to go about it. In my experience, it's a worthwhile pursuit on the internet, but seldom in reality.

Also, what Sclass said. Friends are typically people that identify and relate with each other. To the closed-mind (an actual concept) enemies are everybody that are weird [compared to you]. Those are outsiders. They are to be feared. When you change (and become weird) and move on, you're no longer one of them. You're an enemy. No matter what you say it will now count against you. It's better to just find new friends and talk to them than leave the old ones with a final barrage. Why burn bridges?

In my humble opinion ...

(*) And this only really works if you're faster on the take up than your opponent. Most likely they won't be happy for being shown up like that anyway. Personally, I suffer from the spirit of the staircase http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27esprit_de_l%27escalier ... so I stay away from personal confrontation although I do occasionally engage in writing.

[SimpleLife]

The only thing I'm going to throw out here is my favorite quote from a Curtis Jackson: "If they hate then let 'em hate and watch the money pile up".

.

[Sclass]

I love this forum.

L'esprit de l'escalier

I had no idea there was a name for this. I certainly have this problem. As much as I'd love to have the quickest most biting comeback, I'm blessed with being slow. It has saved me a lot of unnecessary hatred. My SO always says "you took that in stride".

[Dream of Freedom]

I agree in general with the whole keep ERE a secret thing, but he isn't telling them that he's retiring. He's just changing jobs. You have a point that a logical argument might not work. I knew that too. So the rant I proposed making didn't rely on logic, but on psychology, acting wounded and appealing to a sense of fairness.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... rness.html

http://intro2psych.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... -morality/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 404AABzhv3

[workathome]

That's hilarious, I always have been blessed with delayed timing as well... I wonder if it is related to being introverted?

[Ego]

As much as I'd love to have the quickest most biting comeback, I'm blessed with being slow. It has saved me a lot of unnecessary hatred. My SO always says "you took that in stride".

HAH!

This is me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFH4DszUj2A

[Sclass]

Oh a good laugh! We are in good company.