This sounds like someone who is just prodding away with a sharp stick to get a reaction. In tracking comment/reaction I learnt a new phrase to describe blog posts like this ... 'click bait'.
I am looking forward to having time in retirement to run my household creatively, frugally and without cutting corners. Its not a trivial task and I expect the experience to be at least as fulfilling (and challenging) as my career has been. Different set of rewards.
Women retiring early
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saving-10-years
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
- Location: Warwickshire, UK
Re: Women retiring early
I'm a woman and your questions don't apply to my life (I happily failed at family and respectable career) identity and the construction of authority are things I think about a lot.
The first thing is that you might want to reconsider your social group if the way they would define you isn't healthy for you. Not that that's always possible.
And the good news is that there are multiple ways to construct authority. You could have a consulting business and only take on one client a month but give the impression that you're so at the top of your field you decided to just work for yourself. You could introduce yourself as an entrepreneur, a traveller, an investor, etc. you can pretty much say whatever and people will match your tone and expression more than they'll listen to what you say. I introduce myself alternately as a human being, a writer, a reality consultant, a student, an entrepreneur, a dancer, a common whore, etc. you can be multifaceted and present the aspect of your identity that most relates to the people you're interacting with. It's fun!
For a long time I tried to always have something respectable and authoritative that I was actually doing, but eventually playing that game cost too much of my time and energy. I'm really glad I stopped and now it just looks funny to me, but at the same time I know that money has been the key to not needing to play the game to survive in this culture.
The first thing is that you might want to reconsider your social group if the way they would define you isn't healthy for you. Not that that's always possible.
And the good news is that there are multiple ways to construct authority. You could have a consulting business and only take on one client a month but give the impression that you're so at the top of your field you decided to just work for yourself. You could introduce yourself as an entrepreneur, a traveller, an investor, etc. you can pretty much say whatever and people will match your tone and expression more than they'll listen to what you say. I introduce myself alternately as a human being, a writer, a reality consultant, a student, an entrepreneur, a dancer, a common whore, etc. you can be multifaceted and present the aspect of your identity that most relates to the people you're interacting with. It's fun!
For a long time I tried to always have something respectable and authoritative that I was actually doing, but eventually playing that game cost too much of my time and energy. I'm really glad I stopped and now it just looks funny to me, but at the same time I know that money has been the key to not needing to play the game to survive in this culture.
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CreoleBelle
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:45 pm
Re: Women retiring early
This issue has been on my mind a lot lately and I'm glad I found this thread! I'm a 31-year old woman and "sort of" retired -- I was working toward ERE when I unexpectedly became a housewife.
What happened: I left a job in late 2013 and I had savings to last me plenty of years (but not fully FI/ERE level). While I was seeking a new job, my husband offered to support me so that I don't have to work unless I wanted to. We hadn't considered this before since we're both very independent, but new experiences and considerations opened us to the mutual benefits (e.g. we discovered we're much happier living like this). I worried it was unfair to him, but (1) he reassures me he loves his job and doesn't even want to retire and (2) the way we save, invest, and live frugally, we will reach FI early on just his income anyway.
On your original post:
- I totally relate to Jacob's post about careerism. I was working in a non-profit and became disillusioned when I saw that office politics was a main factor in success. They didn't care about the cause, values, or mission and least of all, efficiency or quality. They were more concerned with playing the game, promoting themselves, and working up the ladder. I'd rather do other things than pay lip service to the cause while pushing paper around so my boss can pretend to donors he's achieving something! As the place is rather prestigious, people were surprised I left and that I've turned down offers to "come back" but like Jacob says I now just want to do "honest work to heal the soul", even if that work is not remunerated.
- I mainly keep all my free time and have not assumed more roles in the home, though I'm open to it. For example, I don't clean. I offered, but my husband prefers the housekeeper. It's also because we have a tenant renting our extra bedroom, and a housekeeper simplifies life with flatmates.
- I considered working out of feminist guilt. But I feel that the point of our activities is to contribute to our happiness, and since the current arrangement makes us very happy, we see no need to go back yet. I have many passions and interests, so there's no danger of me becoming bored or unfulfilled. I have more opportunities for self-actualization now that I'm not tied down to one job. And when we have kids, I prefer to be present.
Despite how great this feels, sometimes I wonder "is this really okay?", maybe because of other people's opinions and reactions.
What happened: I left a job in late 2013 and I had savings to last me plenty of years (but not fully FI/ERE level). While I was seeking a new job, my husband offered to support me so that I don't have to work unless I wanted to. We hadn't considered this before since we're both very independent, but new experiences and considerations opened us to the mutual benefits (e.g. we discovered we're much happier living like this). I worried it was unfair to him, but (1) he reassures me he loves his job and doesn't even want to retire and (2) the way we save, invest, and live frugally, we will reach FI early on just his income anyway.
On your original post:
- I totally relate to Jacob's post about careerism. I was working in a non-profit and became disillusioned when I saw that office politics was a main factor in success. They didn't care about the cause, values, or mission and least of all, efficiency or quality. They were more concerned with playing the game, promoting themselves, and working up the ladder. I'd rather do other things than pay lip service to the cause while pushing paper around so my boss can pretend to donors he's achieving something! As the place is rather prestigious, people were surprised I left and that I've turned down offers to "come back" but like Jacob says I now just want to do "honest work to heal the soul", even if that work is not remunerated.
- I mainly keep all my free time and have not assumed more roles in the home, though I'm open to it. For example, I don't clean. I offered, but my husband prefers the housekeeper. It's also because we have a tenant renting our extra bedroom, and a housekeeper simplifies life with flatmates.
- I considered working out of feminist guilt. But I feel that the point of our activities is to contribute to our happiness, and since the current arrangement makes us very happy, we see no need to go back yet. I have many passions and interests, so there's no danger of me becoming bored or unfulfilled. I have more opportunities for self-actualization now that I'm not tied down to one job. And when we have kids, I prefer to be present.
Despite how great this feels, sometimes I wonder "is this really okay?", maybe because of other people's opinions and reactions.
Re: Women retiring early
It's definitely "okay" but, in my experience, often fraught with difficulties in maintaining boundaries that will increase over time. Your situation now is relatively easy. You are at home. He is at work. There are no children. You have a housekeeper. So, as you implied may already be your experience, the main problem you may be experiencing is other women snidely denigrating you for being "kept." The simple solution to that is to just say you are writing a novel.CreoleBelle said: Despite how great this feels, sometimes I wonder "is this really okay?", maybe because of other people's opinions and reactions.
Types of issues that may come up and blur your boundaries. His mother is in town visiting. He is at work. Is it your job to entertain her? You invest in some rental property together. He is at work. Is it your job to sit in a chair at city hall for two hours waiting to talk with the water department about a problem? If/when any kids come into the picture, these sort of division of labor/boundary issues will expand exponentially.
The other class of problem that may develop won't occur until/unless he retires too. Then the problem becomes less "Whose job is this?" and more "Who is in charge?" A lot of couples who have been married for 30-something years file for divorce in their 60s because of this problem. Many men are used to managing people or processes on the job and when they don't know how to turn it off. Having a financial situation which is not even-Steven is going to make it more difficult for you to hold your own in certain power-struggles or decision-making-processes even if it is the case that he is madly in love with you and a reasonable fellow. (I will note for the record here that I have only been in this position in relationship to men who were one or the other or neither but not both at the same time, so YMMV. -lol)
Re: Women retiring early
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I have often thought this myself. Seems to me that it was to their benefit that men's salaries declined but there was not big fuss made because we got used to the idea that both people have to work.
I remember some of my aunts who never worked used to lament "how they would have rather worked than stayed at home". Now as a working mom who commutes 2 hours a day, I wish they could have done this so they could realize how much better they had it! Back then most men in my area could work at a factory and make good money. They worked 40 hours a week and could get overtime and even tripletime for holidays. I see my husband working 90+ hours a week on salary making what they made for 40 hours a week factoring in inflation. Only he had to get a 4 year degree. We also worry all the time about lay--offs and no dental, lousy benefits, no pension. My next door neighbor growing up worked at Ford and did all the hours he could, he make close to 100,000 in the mid 1980's. My husband does not make near that for the same hours 30 years later. No wonder his wife did not have to work. A friend's dad worked the same at Ford and put 5 kids through college (room and board) plus paid for wedding and down payments on homes. He wife didn't work. You could never do that now.
We have to ask ourselves who really profited from getting most women into the workforce? I don't know if we are all really better off. (of course, I think both men and women should work if that is what they want) I work in the schools and most kids are desperate for attention. We have a lot of behavior problems and every year more and more emotionally disturbed kids. I don't know exactly what is causing all this but each child like this has to have a full-time aide at all times. Some classrooms have 2 or 3 aides. If you do the math you will realize this is a huge problem.
Not to derail, but I think the push for women's careers was deceptively brought on by big business that wanted to double the supply of [cheap] labor... This also increases tax revenue and public schools become more influential on the young.
I have often thought this myself. Seems to me that it was to their benefit that men's salaries declined but there was not big fuss made because we got used to the idea that both people have to work.
I remember some of my aunts who never worked used to lament "how they would have rather worked than stayed at home". Now as a working mom who commutes 2 hours a day, I wish they could have done this so they could realize how much better they had it! Back then most men in my area could work at a factory and make good money. They worked 40 hours a week and could get overtime and even tripletime for holidays. I see my husband working 90+ hours a week on salary making what they made for 40 hours a week factoring in inflation. Only he had to get a 4 year degree. We also worry all the time about lay--offs and no dental, lousy benefits, no pension. My next door neighbor growing up worked at Ford and did all the hours he could, he make close to 100,000 in the mid 1980's. My husband does not make near that for the same hours 30 years later. No wonder his wife did not have to work. A friend's dad worked the same at Ford and put 5 kids through college (room and board) plus paid for wedding and down payments on homes. He wife didn't work. You could never do that now.
We have to ask ourselves who really profited from getting most women into the workforce? I don't know if we are all really better off. (of course, I think both men and women should work if that is what they want) I work in the schools and most kids are desperate for attention. We have a lot of behavior problems and every year more and more emotionally disturbed kids. I don't know exactly what is causing all this but each child like this has to have a full-time aide at all times. Some classrooms have 2 or 3 aides. If you do the math you will realize this is a huge problem.