Women retiring early

[KisKis]

I am a married woman with children and a career, so I am going to put in my two cents. Husband and I are not ready to ERE yet at 29, but he is planning to become a house husband by 40, possibly a few years earlier. He already has a seasonal job, so he is home with the kids during the winter.

DH doesn't feel any stigma associated with becoming the stay-at-home parent, despite growing up and living in the Bible Belt with a very traditional Southern SAHM. However, his parents ERE'd at 44 as soon as we had our first child, to move near us and help with free childcare. (Very lucky!) I grew up in the NE with immigrant parents who will work until they die despite being FI, so I think I have much more guilt and self-image tied to working/not working.

On the topic of "can women have it all," I think the answer is no. I think the answer is "no" regardless of gender. You only have so much time in a day, and both families and careers require a significant time investment. I already feel like I slacked on my career, as I didn't go the Ph.D. route of my sibling and cousins, but I feel like I am the most balanced in life with a fantastic husband, a stable career, a better than average household income, and great kids. Could my career be better? Absolutely. Could I be a better mom by spending more time with the kids? Absolutely. Do I feel like I could go in either direction without hating my job or losing patience with the kids? No. Everyone is different, but I think I have achieved a pretty satisfying balance for me.

Anyways, I still plan on calling it quits at 48, but DH will have the extra decade before me. Life is amazing during the winter when he is home. He and the kids go on picnics and fishing adventures, everyone is happy when I get home, dinner is cooked, the house is immaculate. DH honestly prefers it to working. I think I would go mental. Who cares what anyone else thinks. In the end, no one can deny that we are happy, and so there is nothing negative that they can say about how we choose to live.

[EdithKeeler]

More broadly... have any women here chosen to keep working when they didn't have to, for an ideological/equality/feminist reason?

Well, I'm a single, never-married woman who started at an elite college in 1982. We were all supposed to get a fabulous education, get a fabulous job, have a career, and be wildly successful. I suppose we were supposed to "have it all," but I'll be honest, I don't recall much conversation about marriage and children at the time.

I bought into it all. I got out there and have worked in an industry dominated by men for my entire working career. I've done OK, but not nearly as well as my male peers. I was so into my job and career that I sort of never got around to getting married and having kids. And now I'm tired and disillusioned about it all.

So no, I have no desire to keep working for ideological/feminist reasons, and while I certainly support women having careers and of course they should have the same opportunities and pay as men, I would also caution women starting out to constantly evaluate and re-evaluate what they want. The message that "women must go out and have it all" is in some ways as insidious as the message that "women should stay home and take care of the house and babies." People used to say "you can have it all," but now you hear "You can have it all, but not all at the same time." I'm not convinced that this is even true--let's face it, the best years for getting your career established are the same as the best years for bearing children. Ageism is alive and well in our society, and while men aren't immune, I would argue that women have it just a bit worse in terms of being discriminated against because of age and appearance, so the idea that you can have the same kind of career starting out at 35 after getting your kids in school is not, I would argue, going to work most of the time. I don't believe you can ever have it all.

It feels to me, at this point in my life, like the ultimate feminist statement is quitting my paid employment that I don't love and doing something that I do love. But I think I still have trouble because of that early conditioning because if I quit paid employment in that old boy company, I won't make as much money, that I should still be in there "fighting the good fight for women everywhere."

It's really all so much bullshit. Is life a contest? Do I "win" if I make the most money? Do I "win" if I make a lot of money, have kids that are raised by the nanny because I'm at work all day? Have I failed my responsibility as a feminist if I decide to stay home for a decade and raise my kids? Do I win if I take the least amount of vacation every year? Am I the best feminist because I worked more hours than anyone else?

No, I won't be sticking out my job because of feminist ideals.

[7Wannabe5]

I am 48 (old Gen X.) In the years (7) between my first marriage and my current marriage-like relationship, one of the lines I used in my online dating profile was something like "I am self-employed and self-sufficient in the manner of a gypsy woman who has chosen to park her rag-tag caravan in Thoreau's bean field." Which was my way of saying something like "I make about $18,000 a year doing work I enjoy for less than 20 hours a week and somehow (by being creative and thrifty) I manage to scrape by (keep my net worth quite low but fairly steady and positive) and even help my 2 kids through their college years and have a good deal of fun doing it." Turned out that the majority of men who wanted to date me (It was my policy to only date men who wanted to date me.) were Baby Boomer men with vastly higher incomes and/or asset bases than me. It has been extremely difficult for me to maintain my boundaries in this kind of situation and that is one of the reasons why I came upon and joined this group. I love and respect my man and I am happy with our current part-time home-making for shelter/food exchange/contract but occasionally I have to convey "FU and your money. I will go live in a van or an adult co-op." or the power dynamic would get out of whack (I might note that he is somebody whose negotiation style has been described as "bad cop" so it's not just relative financial power I have to stand up against.)But I have actually had more difficulties dealing with or processing comments such as "Nice work if you can get it." from other women who are angry/envious of the manner in which I have arranged my life or, really, their stereotypical perceptions of my lifestyle.

My point being that FU money is only somewhat necessary and certainly not sufficient to maintain a FU attitude (steel-plate your gonads regardless of gender.) My mantra is something like "I am strong like a bright red rubber ball. My power is cheerful resilience." However, it is probable that more money in the bank would lend more heft to my internal bounce. Like if you were playing dodge ball with me you might be more like "Damn, that's going to sting if it hits." or maybe some other analogy that would be more peaceful and constructive.

[jennypenny]

This is exactly the kind of BS most women hear if they pull the plug early on their career for whatever reason. I think there is a lot of subtle pressure on professional women to stay with their careers because they somehow owe it to the women who came before them.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/amy-glass/201 ... not-sorry/

[theanimal]

This is exactly the kind of BS most women hear if they pull the plug early on their career for whatever reason. I think there is a lot of subtle pressure on professional women to stay with their careers because they somehow owe it to the women who came before them.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/amy-glass/201 ... not-sorry/

That article is pretty ridiculous. But on the flip side, it seems like most of the comments have an opposing viewpoint.

[saving-10-years]

This sounds like someone who is just prodding away with a sharp stick to get a reaction. In tracking comment/reaction I learnt a new phrase to describe blog posts like this ... 'click bait'.

I am looking forward to having time in retirement to run my household creatively, frugally and without cutting corners. Its not a trivial task and I expect the experience to be at least as fulfilling (and challenging) as my career has been. Different set of rewards.

[riparian]

I'm a woman and your questions don't apply to my life (I happily failed at family and respectable career) identity and the construction of authority are things I think about a lot.

The first thing is that you might want to reconsider your social group if the way they would define you isn't healthy for you. Not that that's always possible.

And the good news is that there are multiple ways to construct authority. You could have a consulting business and only take on one client a month but give the impression that you're so at the top of your field you decided to just work for yourself. You could introduce yourself as an entrepreneur, a traveller, an investor, etc. you can pretty much say whatever and people will match your tone and expression more than they'll listen to what you say. I introduce myself alternately as a human being, a writer, a reality consultant, a student, an entrepreneur, a dancer, a common whore, etc. you can be multifaceted and present the aspect of your identity that most relates to the people you're interacting with. It's fun!

For a long time I tried to always have something respectable and authoritative that I was actually doing, but eventually playing that game cost too much of my time and energy. I'm really glad I stopped and now it just looks funny to me, but at the same time I know that money has been the key to not needing to play the game to survive in this culture.

[CreoleBelle]

This issue has been on my mind a lot lately and I'm glad I found this thread! I'm a 31-year old woman and "sort of" retired -- I was working toward ERE when I unexpectedly became a housewife.

What happened: I left a job in late 2013 and I had savings to last me plenty of years (but not fully FI/ERE level). While I was seeking a new job, my husband offered to support me so that I don't have to work unless I wanted to. We hadn't considered this before since we're both very independent, but new experiences and considerations opened us to the mutual benefits (e.g. we discovered we're much happier living like this). I worried it was unfair to him, but (1) he reassures me he loves his job and doesn't even want to retire and (2) the way we save, invest, and live frugally, we will reach FI early on just his income anyway.

On your original post:

- I totally relate to Jacob's post about careerism. I was working in a non-profit and became disillusioned when I saw that office politics was a main factor in success. They didn't care about the cause, values, or mission and least of all, efficiency or quality. They were more concerned with playing the game, promoting themselves, and working up the ladder. I'd rather do other things than pay lip service to the cause while pushing paper around so my boss can pretend to donors he's achieving something! As the place is rather prestigious, people were surprised I left and that I've turned down offers to "come back" but like Jacob says I now just want to do "honest work to heal the soul", even if that work is not remunerated.

- I mainly keep all my free time and have not assumed more roles in the home, though I'm open to it. For example, I don't clean. I offered, but my husband prefers the housekeeper. It's also because we have a tenant renting our extra bedroom, and a housekeeper simplifies life with flatmates.

- I considered working out of feminist guilt. But I feel that the point of our activities is to contribute to our happiness, and since the current arrangement makes us very happy, we see no need to go back yet. I have many passions and interests, so there's no danger of me becoming bored or unfulfilled. I have more opportunities for self-actualization now that I'm not tied down to one job. And when we have kids, I prefer to be present.

Despite how great this feels, sometimes I wonder "is this really okay?", maybe because of other people's opinions and reactions.

[7Wannabe5]

CreoleBelle said: Despite how great this feels, sometimes I wonder "is this really okay?", maybe because of other people's opinions and reactions.

It's definitely "okay" but, in my experience, often fraught with difficulties in maintaining boundaries that will increase over time. Your situation now is relatively easy. You are at home. He is at work. There are no children. You have a housekeeper. So, as you implied may already be your experience, the main problem you may be experiencing is other women snidely denigrating you for being "kept." The simple solution to that is to just say you are writing a novel.

Types of issues that may come up and blur your boundaries. His mother is in town visiting. He is at work. Is it your job to entertain her? You invest in some rental property together. He is at work. Is it your job to sit in a chair at city hall for two hours waiting to talk with the water department about a problem? If/when any kids come into the picture, these sort of division of labor/boundary issues will expand exponentially.

The other class of problem that may develop won't occur until/unless he retires too. Then the problem becomes less "Whose job is this?" and more "Who is in charge?" A lot of couples who have been married for 30-something years file for divorce in their 60s because of this problem. Many men are used to managing people or processes on the job and when they don't know how to turn it off. Having a financial situation which is not even-Steven is going to make it more difficult for you to hold your own in certain power-struggles or decision-making-processes even if it is the case that he is madly in love with you and a reasonable fellow. (I will note for the record here that I have only been in this position in relationship to men who were one or the other or neither but not both at the same time, so YMMV. -lol)

[jredman]

[

Not to derail, but I think the push for women's careers was deceptively brought on by big business that wanted to double the supply of [cheap] labor... This also increases tax revenue and public schools become more influential on the young.

I have often thought this myself. Seems to me that it was to their benefit that men's salaries declined but there was not big fuss made because we got used to the idea that both people have to work.
I remember some of my aunts who never worked used to lament "how they would have rather worked than stayed at home". Now as a working mom who commutes 2 hours a day, I wish they could have done this so they could realize how much better they had it! Back then most men in my area could work at a factory and make good money. They worked 40 hours a week and could get overtime and even tripletime for holidays. I see my husband working 90+ hours a week on salary making what they made for 40 hours a week factoring in inflation. Only he had to get a 4 year degree. We also worry all the time about lay--offs and no dental, lousy benefits, no pension. My next door neighbor growing up worked at Ford and did all the hours he could, he make close to 100,000 in the mid 1980's. My husband does not make near that for the same hours 30 years later. No wonder his wife did not have to work. A friend's dad worked the same at Ford and put 5 kids through college (room and board) plus paid for wedding and down payments on homes. He wife didn't work. You could never do that now.
We have to ask ourselves who really profited from getting most women into the workforce? I don't know if we are all really better off. (of course, I think both men and women should work if that is what they want) I work in the schools and most kids are desperate for attention. We have a lot of behavior problems and every year more and more emotionally disturbed kids. I don't know exactly what is causing all this but each child like this has to have a full-time aide at all times. Some classrooms have 2 or 3 aides. If you do the math you will realize this is a huge problem.