My spouse doesn't earn an income, so what's mine is hers...
Well, actually she does occasionally get cash for knitting or crocheting or spinning something for someone and I encourage her to put that in her own savings account. Every so often we raid that savings account when the balance is above, say, $1,200 and never let it fall below $500.
Thinking back on other potential spouses, if I'd married any of them, I would not be surprised if we'd kept separate finances as they were often very independent-minded. Different people need different arrangements.
Spousal Subsidies
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George the original one
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dot_com_vet
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- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:07 am
We've been married almost 4 years. Initially we split expenses (utilities, food, entertainment) according to income (75% me, 25% her), but after she started going back to school, I am paying all utilities/housing and almost all her food and gas, and she pays her own school expenses and incidentals.
When she starts working again, we will go back to sharing expenses based on income (mine from investments since I will be ERE by that time, and her from her job). If we have children, I imagine all this will be blurred up.
When she starts working again, we will go back to sharing expenses based on income (mine from investments since I will be ERE by that time, and her from her job). If we have children, I imagine all this will be blurred up.
DH and I are one flesh and so one ownership of money
is minor and obvious to us. We have never split
up our money or finances. When we said "I do" we
became one unit financially as well as in name and in
flesh. We are one household and there is no point in
doing otherwise. When your lives are so intricately and intimately intertwined in all aspects, why would you seperate finances. I realize that this is each individual couples' choice, but I cannot imagine it being beneficial spiritually, emotionally, physically or financially to do it any other way. Now, I am not telling anyone else what to do by any means, but I finder baffling that when I read PF blogs, almost none of the people who write them have one financial situation for them and their spouse. We would not be able to have survived without doing things this way and we appreciate the closeness it brings to know we are one and that we sink or swim together. That to me is way more important than all the money in the world.
is minor and obvious to us. We have never split
up our money or finances. When we said "I do" we
became one unit financially as well as in name and in
flesh. We are one household and there is no point in
doing otherwise. When your lives are so intricately and intimately intertwined in all aspects, why would you seperate finances. I realize that this is each individual couples' choice, but I cannot imagine it being beneficial spiritually, emotionally, physically or financially to do it any other way. Now, I am not telling anyone else what to do by any means, but I finder baffling that when I read PF blogs, almost none of the people who write them have one financial situation for them and their spouse. We would not be able to have survived without doing things this way and we appreciate the closeness it brings to know we are one and that we sink or swim together. That to me is way more important than all the money in the world.
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Spartan_Warrior
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- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
I sit firmly on the side of the pre-nup, separate savings, and splitting only common expenses like groceries and housing. It's simple statistics. Nowadays there's basically a 50% chance I'll lose 50% of my wealth in a marriage with combined finances and no pre-nup. Trust is one thing, odds are another.
I'm all for traditional values but sadly when it comes to marriage in America the only place traditional values still exist is in the eyes of the lawyers and divorce courts.
Maybe I'm just a cynic.
I'm all for traditional values but sadly when it comes to marriage in America the only place traditional values still exist is in the eyes of the lawyers and divorce courts.
Maybe I'm just a cynic.
Soon after we got married 25 years ago, we agreed to pool our income and split the extra every month as an allowance. During that time, I have been unemployed and underemployed, made more than DH for several years, and am now retired. I am fortunate that DH has had a decent pension all that time, while I have always known I needed to provide for my own retirement income.
Over the years, we have changed the agreement. Most significantly, when I started making decent money again, we agreed to take fixed allowances and save the rest for the 'kitty'. Most of the changes we have made have tended to pool our money more. The biggest exceptions to our rule are that his RMDs from IRAs that date from before he was married are his, and I did not pool my 401k contributions.
Over the years, we have evolved to living on his income, which was stable and sufficient, and using my income for investments and unusual expenses. Now my assets are greater than his, and his income is more than mine, but I need the greater assets in case something happens to him. If I start drawing on those assets, of course we will share equally.
If we were to divorce, I would end up worse off, because he would be entitled to half of my assets, while much of his assets are pre-marital. But divorce is a financial disaster in any case, and I am glad that is not on the horizon.
So, marriage is a journey, and there is no point in expecting to set the rules at the beginning and expect things to never change. People of good will can discuss things openly and agree on changes. If that is not a possibility in a relationship, I seriously question whether anyone should get married.
Over the years, we have changed the agreement. Most significantly, when I started making decent money again, we agreed to take fixed allowances and save the rest for the 'kitty'. Most of the changes we have made have tended to pool our money more. The biggest exceptions to our rule are that his RMDs from IRAs that date from before he was married are his, and I did not pool my 401k contributions.
Over the years, we have evolved to living on his income, which was stable and sufficient, and using my income for investments and unusual expenses. Now my assets are greater than his, and his income is more than mine, but I need the greater assets in case something happens to him. If I start drawing on those assets, of course we will share equally.
If we were to divorce, I would end up worse off, because he would be entitled to half of my assets, while much of his assets are pre-marital. But divorce is a financial disaster in any case, and I am glad that is not on the horizon.
So, marriage is a journey, and there is no point in expecting to set the rules at the beginning and expect things to never change. People of good will can discuss things openly and agree on changes. If that is not a possibility in a relationship, I seriously question whether anyone should get married.
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Posthumane
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:06 am
I think there are reasons to keep some finances separate even if you are not considering a future divorce. For example if you have a large disparity in your income and the costs of your interests/hobbies, as is the case with my GF and I. While I do enjoy being frugal and saving money, I also enjoy the fact that my high income allows me to spend on certain luxuries which cost a fair amount but also bring me a fair bit of joy. That is part of the reason I pursued a descent career. GF on the other hand has a very low income, but also low expenses. I think if we pooled our money completely if we got married it would eventually lead to resentment - I would hate having to ask permission to use the money I earned on something I really want.
My wife and I keep our money seperate. We do line item the grocery bill. It takes 5 minutes.
Generally we split costs 50/50, even though I earn more. The exception is our mortgage. We moved into a more expensive home, understanding her pay was not high enough to afford half the cost. As she has earned a higher salary, she has come closer to paying half. It gives me a strong incentive to help her career.
I save most of my salary, so our spending ends up very similar. If anything, she probably spends more than me. We rarely fight about money. Joint financial decisions are made together, cause hey, you can get the other person to pay half!
I do think if I were to spend my entire salary, essentially providing me with double the purchasing power of my wife, that would create stress in our marriage. It's unlikely to happen.
We looked into a pre-nup when getting married. An enforcable one is expensive. The divorce laws in our state were fair enough, so we didn't bother.
We have no kids or plans for kids. I see how that could change everything.
Generally we split costs 50/50, even though I earn more. The exception is our mortgage. We moved into a more expensive home, understanding her pay was not high enough to afford half the cost. As she has earned a higher salary, she has come closer to paying half. It gives me a strong incentive to help her career.
I save most of my salary, so our spending ends up very similar. If anything, she probably spends more than me. We rarely fight about money. Joint financial decisions are made together, cause hey, you can get the other person to pay half!
I do think if I were to spend my entire salary, essentially providing me with double the purchasing power of my wife, that would create stress in our marriage. It's unlikely to happen.
We looked into a pre-nup when getting married. An enforcable one is expensive. The divorce laws in our state were fair enough, so we didn't bother.
We have no kids or plans for kids. I see how that could change everything.
Well, whoever pays the bill gets the reward points, so it's only fair they line item the reciept.
Line iteming the grocery bill is not about who bought carrots. It is about eliminating the gray areas. When the financial split is absolute, decision making around money is completely removed. There is no conflict, because a concrete script is provided for every day to day scenario.
My wife's money is hers to spend as she pleases, even if I don't agree with the purchase. Two examples: I spent $0 on clothes over the past 12 months. She spent in the $500-$1000 range. I have no tattoos, she recently spent $1000 to start a tattoo that will cost another $1000-$2000 to finish. Her money, her choice. No "what do I get for $1000". Just "oh, hey, that's pretty cool."
Now, she still saves a respectable amount. We might have a problem if she was spiraling into debt. Really though, what happens is she sees the wealth my savings is accumulating, then ends up saving more as well.
Line iteming the grocery bill is not about who bought carrots. It is about eliminating the gray areas. When the financial split is absolute, decision making around money is completely removed. There is no conflict, because a concrete script is provided for every day to day scenario.
My wife's money is hers to spend as she pleases, even if I don't agree with the purchase. Two examples: I spent $0 on clothes over the past 12 months. She spent in the $500-$1000 range. I have no tattoos, she recently spent $1000 to start a tattoo that will cost another $1000-$2000 to finish. Her money, her choice. No "what do I get for $1000". Just "oh, hey, that's pretty cool."
Now, she still saves a respectable amount. We might have a problem if she was spiraling into debt. Really though, what happens is she sees the wealth my savings is accumulating, then ends up saving more as well.
Wow, this is a great topic...and I can't seem to figure out what side I am on. I am married (going on seven years(wow)). But I am also much more frugal. If it were up to me, I'd eat tuna and tap water if it meant I didn't have to work. We also have a daughter, who my wife loves o buy things for. But I also just spent my tax return on a truck, despite the money was ear marked for debt. I could have gotten another very cheap beater, but getting sick of fixing and borrowing.
One one hand, I know friends who keep things separate, and I know it shouldn't because it's 2013 but it feels strange to me. Maybe i am a little traditional in the sense that you should be actively working together for similar goals, Keeping things separate and having separate goals seems like an easy way to split. I also thought about what if we did that, I make MUCH more then SO, and I'm great at hustling up cash. What happens when I retire at 40 and she's working, just point and laugh and say haha? I'd end up subsidizing her then. maybe. Who knows.
The way we do it is that I do it. I've learned with my SO that data is better ammo for an argument then logic, so When I said we can't spend more then XXX a month and we spent more, I showed her. We fixed it. After about 18 months of trying different systems, and different ideas, we landed on a $200/week CASH payment. This covers, food, gas, coffee or what ever else we "need" but once we're out we're out till Sunday. The 200/wk is enough where I can pay all of the other bills, debt, and still save. Meanwhile she is much more aware of what she spends since she knows it will run out, but its a short period of time so if it does, she only has to make it a few days.
She trusts me when i spend, save, and a lot. I've bought two rental properties, leveraged, and started a new business last year.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to say, you live your way and I live mine. And I'll just smile when you leave for work and I'm enjoying a beer at 8 am on a hammock...but then realize that wouldn't be fun at all, most days anyway.
One one hand, I know friends who keep things separate, and I know it shouldn't because it's 2013 but it feels strange to me. Maybe i am a little traditional in the sense that you should be actively working together for similar goals, Keeping things separate and having separate goals seems like an easy way to split. I also thought about what if we did that, I make MUCH more then SO, and I'm great at hustling up cash. What happens when I retire at 40 and she's working, just point and laugh and say haha? I'd end up subsidizing her then. maybe. Who knows.
The way we do it is that I do it. I've learned with my SO that data is better ammo for an argument then logic, so When I said we can't spend more then XXX a month and we spent more, I showed her. We fixed it. After about 18 months of trying different systems, and different ideas, we landed on a $200/week CASH payment. This covers, food, gas, coffee or what ever else we "need" but once we're out we're out till Sunday. The 200/wk is enough where I can pay all of the other bills, debt, and still save. Meanwhile she is much more aware of what she spends since she knows it will run out, but its a short period of time so if it does, she only has to make it a few days.
She trusts me when i spend, save, and a lot. I've bought two rental properties, leveraged, and started a new business last year.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to say, you live your way and I live mine. And I'll just smile when you leave for work and I'm enjoying a beer at 8 am on a hammock...but then realize that wouldn't be fun at all, most days anyway.
@seneca. I think that's the goal, find what works for you. Me and my wife knew each other seven months before I proposed. We lived together for a few of those months. I got married and left for 8 months to go play in Iraq. Came back and we just pooled it together, and made changes as we needed to. It took a while, but now we live way below our means, are building our asset pool, and paying off debt.
I got lucky, my wife isn't a huge spender but loves to shop. She also prefers the look of hand crafted wood counter tops (cost me $119 to make) vs granite. Her parents are also in bad financial shape, and she sees how unhappy it makes them to HAVE to work at 70, where my mother is happily retired and loving life @ 55. So she trusts that my insanity will get us to a good place.
And anytime she mentions a certain friend, who has two new cars, and has no problem spending $500 on a random shopping binge, and redecorating her house. And then looks at our older cars, and house that needs lots of TLC, I explain that it is easy to look well off, I have 800 credit, I can go sign for a benz and a 800k house...but that's not whats important. And if she must compare, look at the true value. Other couples our age are just buying a home, we only have 18 years left till we own ours. Our passive gross rental income is more than the 'well offs' salaries. Sure we are really tight now, and sure she doesn't get the same satisfaction as I do when I see that My IRA is beating the S&P by 4% but she trusts me to take care of them
I've only been with her 7 years, but I think the most important thing in a marriage is to find out what works for you two. What works for one won't work for another, and just like any other aspect of a marriage, full honesty and communication will get you through it.
I got lucky, my wife isn't a huge spender but loves to shop. She also prefers the look of hand crafted wood counter tops (cost me $119 to make) vs granite. Her parents are also in bad financial shape, and she sees how unhappy it makes them to HAVE to work at 70, where my mother is happily retired and loving life @ 55. So she trusts that my insanity will get us to a good place.
And anytime she mentions a certain friend, who has two new cars, and has no problem spending $500 on a random shopping binge, and redecorating her house. And then looks at our older cars, and house that needs lots of TLC, I explain that it is easy to look well off, I have 800 credit, I can go sign for a benz and a 800k house...but that's not whats important. And if she must compare, look at the true value. Other couples our age are just buying a home, we only have 18 years left till we own ours. Our passive gross rental income is more than the 'well offs' salaries. Sure we are really tight now, and sure she doesn't get the same satisfaction as I do when I see that My IRA is beating the S&P by 4% but she trusts me to take care of them
I've only been with her 7 years, but I think the most important thing in a marriage is to find out what works for you two. What works for one won't work for another, and just like any other aspect of a marriage, full honesty and communication will get you through it.