Electric bikes

[540]

Anyone have experience with an electric bike? Is it worth the investment? Is a conversion kit more economical than buying a new electric bike? Thanks for your thoughts!

[theanimal]

IMO it's a better investment for your health to power the bike yourself. If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to get an electric bike?

[stoneage]

I understand It can be less exhausting, and easier on your legs. Living in a somewhat hilly area,
I was considering converting an old bike (as cheap as 20$) to an electric bike. The idea was to replace one of our cars for small trips.

The conversion kits are somewhat pricey, but the one from clean republic seems ok :

http://www.electric-bike-kit.com/propacklithium.aspx

At a 299$ you have to mount it one one of your wheel, and live with a 10 mile autonomy.

This would make a 320$ electric bike, with a 10 mile autonomy, which you can ride as a normal bike (the kit is somewhat lightweight), which is to my knowledge far cheaper than usual e-bikes, and far more maintainable, since you can replace easily any part of the kit that would break.

[RealPerson]

Riding a bicycle for 10 miles is very doable. I routinely ride much more than that. I also have significant hills on my rides. Maybe this is more a psychological barrier? If you ease into cycling and gradually increase your distance, I think you will find the cycling really enjoyable. It saves you time because you don't need cardio at the gym. I would recommend doing that first before the electric conversion.

If the distance really is a problem, you might focus on your health and physical condition as a first priority. As Jacob points out, without good health ERE does not mean all that much.

[stoneage]

@RealPerson
I hear you, health and physical condition should be my priority, and I decided to pay for a martial arts course to get things going. It has since forced me to eat less sugar and more healthy in general.

But Biking is really challenging for me now, and the round trip to the closest store from home is 10 miles. I figured e-bike would really help and ease the challenge of getting my groceries while biking. That would mean saving on gas and improving health since I'd still need to pedal. Maybe it is not the right way to go...

I'll think a bit more about that.

[rube]

We sold our 2nd car some years ago. We bought an e-bike back. DW uses it to go to her work. She doesn't use the e-function always, but if she has litle time to get to her work (after bringing kids to school etc.) it helps her to get there a bit faster and without being exhausted and sweating all over.
100% Muscle power biking might be more ERE, but an e-bike is a good trade for ditching a 2nd car.

[stoneage]

@rube : not using the electric motor implies it is lightweight enough, how heavy is it ?

[jacob]

I bet if you search the forums you will see we've talked about electric bikes before.

The cheapest way is old steel frame MTB with an add-on kit. With the kits, you often get what you pay for. Cheaper kits will hold less charge or their engines will be less powerful. The alternative is a gasoline engine, similar price, infinite range, but maybe not street legal where you live.

Is your current bike efficient? <25mm slick tires and somewhat aerodynamic? If not, try that first. Commuting on a MTB or a [so-called] "comfortable" cruiser with fat knobby tires that weighs 35 pounds is very discouraging for trips more than a couple of miles.

[rube]

@stoneage: I don't know the weigt, but riding it without the e-function feels almost like a normall bike (in the same comfort class, not leightweigt-high speed).

[rube]

@stoneage: I don't know the weigt, but riding it without the e-function feels almost like a normall bike (in the same comfort class, not lightweigt-high speed).

[KevinW]

IMO, all of these cost about the same as an electric bike but are a better cost/benefit proposition:
- high quality road bicycle
- 50cc scooter
- used 250cc motorcycle

[rube]

A 50 cc scooter
-cannot be used as a bicycle also (fully depended on the motor)
-requires insurances
-requires petrol (electrical bike requires electricity, but that is much cheaper)
-you need to wear a helmet
-you're not allowed to use all the roads (e.g. no bicycle paths)
-you cannot have (easily) 2 kids seats on it

250 cc motorcycle
-all the above and you need a drivers license

The above points were for us important not to choose for fossil fuel powered scooter and motorcycle.
A high quality (road) bicycle comes the nearest, but DW wanted to have the option not arrive sweating at her work and still be in time.
At the same time, she's able to use this high quality e-bike just as any other normal bike (=without support of the e-motor) when she has the time, possibility. This e-motor just supports your own movement and you can set it from 0-7. 0=no support, 7=maximum support up to a speed of 25 km/h.

This is not the exact same e-bike which have, but give you an idea

[Sclass]

A pal of mine was really into these. I almost bought a kit off him.

The pluses I saw were 1 - he recharched at work. 2 - even after he rode one a year after converting it there was no shortage of buyers on Craigslist. 3 - it was his hobby and he geeked out on it basically for free because he could always sell out for close to what he paid minus labor. 4 - he didn't show up to work all sweaty even though he had a 10 mile commute over flat terrain. 5 - he got a giggle out of out pedaling hyper competitive serious bicyclists who dared to keep up during the commute. This was actually funny...egos are a comical thing in Silicon Valley. Guys with tree trunk legs would be able to keep up for ten minutes at top speed then they'd fall away. Winning made him happy (hey, whatever it takes right? ). 6 - it didn't make him an iron man but the regular workout kept him trim. 7 - other geeks dug it.

Cons? It was no good in rain. Batteries would need replacement which defeated the electric bike vs. 250cc petrol cost argument. They felt like mopeds with their soso traction/suspension/weight distribution. They didn't feel stable which didn't work with the 30mph speed his bikes had.

That's eventually why I didn't build one. You can casually pedal along at 20mph during 90% of your ride. It seemed like limits of the original bicycles design and intent were being pushed and I could see myself suffering a rider error accident. Oddly I don't feel this on my motorcycles.

And, I have a 250cc, 400cc and 1200cc motorcycle so that further discouraged me from buying.

They still looked fun. I'm still on the fence. The extra power may help put a space between you and the passing cars like a good motorcycle does. By traveling at a lower relative velocity to cars you get a smaller collision cross section.

[workathome]

For the price of a good used car, you can peddle as fast as Lance Armstrong on performance enhancing supplements...

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ebike/turbo

[stoneage]

For the price of a good used car, you can peddle as fast as Lance Armstrong on performance enhancing supplements...

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ebike/turbo

"It turns heads whenever it rolls by with its speed, agility and downright sexiness"
yeah, right....

[KevinW]

-requires insurances

It depends on where you live, but in many states insurance is not required on <50cc scooters.

-requires petrol (electrical bike requires electricity, but that is much cheaper)

Yeah, but not much; 100+ mpg and short trips make fuel costs minimal. As noted above electric bikes need battery replacements so the consumables are kind of a wash.

-you need to wear a helmet

You should be wearing a helmet on a bicycle too...

-you're not allowed to use all the roads (e.g. no bicycle paths)

Actually electric bikes are usually prohibited from bicycle paths.

A 50 cc scooter
-cannot be used as a bicycle also (fully depended on the motor)
-you cannot have (easily) 2 kids seats on it

Those are valid criticisms but I guess they don't apply to my situation.

My other complaint about electric bikes is that all the examples I've seen have appeared to be slapped together and kind of rickety. A bike with a kit attached after the fact is never going to be as well integrated as a product that was designed from the ground up to be a cohesive unit, and is the result of $ millions/billions of R&D, the way that a mass produced scooter, motorcycle, or high quality bicycle is.

[rube]

Well, maybe I should have mentioned I live in the Netherlands. Rules and roads are different here.

But the point I wanted to make is, that the the e-bike does offer some specific benefits. In our case it was the best option of the 4, so it deserves it spot in the list you made.

Your "complaint" about electric bike being slapped together does show you have not seen any of the modern e-bikes (designed/built/used in the Netherlands). The way good/new e-bikes are build is the result of a lot of R&D and are indeed mass produced. Perhaps it was not clear but the picture above IS an e-bike. In this model you can still see the battery on the back. On some other models it is integrated with the frame and you'll only notice it if you pay attention.
Here some examples of modern e-bikes: http://www.justebikes.co.uk/categories/sparta/

Btw, I forgot to mention we have just a small place to store our bicycles. We can't store an 250cc motorcycle or 50 cc scooter and that was another reason not to choose for those.

[Dragline]

Some of those are quite impressive -- it seems that the European technology is further advanced and way more elegant, which is probably not surprising in this area.

The cost still makes me cringe a bit, though. It makes me wonder if the best buying strategy would not be to wait for some wealthy person to sell theirs on Craigslist or elsewhere. An e-bike costing thousands is just the sort of thing an accumulator of tech-stuff will buy in the U.S. and then not use and get rid of at a loss after a couple years when he loses interest.

[rube]

Yes, they are more expensive compared to a regular bike, but prices are going down quite fast.
The website I linked to seems quite expensive. For the one on the picture above, you could probably get a 7 gear version for 1300.

Last year about 5% of the population of The Netherlands had already an e-bike and this number is increasing very fast. 5 years ago it were mostly the elderly people using an e-bike. But now a days you can find the models in a wide variety and also an increasing number of younger people are using them.

[Ricky]

Yes, they are more expensive compared to a regular bike, but prices are going down quite fast.
The website I linked to seems quite expensive. For the one on the picture above, you could probably get a 7 gear version for 1300.

Last year about 5% of the population of The Netherlands had already an e-bike and this number is increasing very fast. 5 years ago it were mostly the elderly people using an e-bike. But now a days you can find the models in a wide variety and also an increasing number of younger people are using them.

Makes perfect sense to me. If you're going to ditch the car, why not make the bike ride as comfortable as possible? Especially considering you're not going to want to pedal all the time.