Detroit revival

[7Wannabe5]

@Laura Ingalls: I don't know why the SEV is so high on that house. I live within very short bike ride of that house and that SEV is way out of alignment. My tax rate on non-owner occupied property is around 7%. In the state of Michigan if your owner-occupied property tax burden is out of whack with your income, you get a break on the state income tax bill. I have lived in rural areas with lower tax rates, but then you may have to have your own well and septic system, pay for trash and snow removal and own a vehicle which you have to drive to do anything and it is boring unless you like hunting and/or riding around on an ATV drunk. Being able to own a large garden in a city is the best of both worlds for me, because I can ride my bike right from my pumpkin patch to a free world-class symphony performance. YMMV.

[Laura Ingalls]

Interesting
I picked that house because it was in a part of town I knew in the 1990s. A ex-boyfriend had two sisters that lived a block or two away in a very pretty house of the same size and vintage.

At the time I thought the houses were solid and very pretty. I like craftsmans . The neighborhood did not seem safe to me. Teenagers carrying guns and stuff.

I am midwestern to the core. I have lived 5 midwestern states including MI. Mostly of the last 20 years was spent in a boring subdivision in a city of 75000. But I also lived in 100 year old farmhouse 8 miles from town and a mile and a half from the nearest neighbor. I also lived in a metro area the about the same size as Detroit.

What I have learned is that there is no perfect for me. I loved the country in the summer and hated it in the winter. If I am going to be a city mouse I need to be in established city neighborhoods (Mac-groveland in St Paul or Lincoln Park in Chicago).

Right now my compromise is boring for good public schools in a cheaper house. In seven years that will cease to be an issue.

I find your projects inspiring and your passion for them shines through. Detroit needs all the love it can get. Im just not feeling it.

[7Wannabe5]

@ Laura Ingalls: Thanks. It's just kind of funny or interesting to me that I am living in a place that has a reputation for being one of the worst, most dangerous places to live in the world, and I actually prefer it to many other places I have lived which are supposed to be good places to live.

[Toska2]

There was an article that the Big 3 are setting up to struggle* again. The majority of North American profits are centered around trucks. Specifically, the sales ratio is 55%/45% trucks to cars. This is made possible by cheap gas and extending loan to 7 years and subprime borrowers. Another part is what is being built in USA. Trucks are built here due to import taxes and higher margins.

Once cheap credit ends or higher gas prices happens, Detroit will stagnate once more.

[7Wannabe5]

Maybe. Either way win-win for me. The property I already own will go up in value, or I can buy more land to garden on the cheap. There are core reasons why human beings decided to create a large settlement where Detroit is located that have nothing to do with the auto industry. Put the average world price of potable water on the graph along with the price of gas.

[vezkor]

7Wannabe5,

I just wanted to write real quick and say thank you. Growing up during the rise and fall of Detroit, I am personally very interested in seeing the city restored to greatness. People like you, and your outstandingly generous contributions, are the only way we're going to make that happen.

Keep up the great work! You're making a difference, and it is greatly appreciated.

[7Wannabe5]

@vezkor: Thanks, but I assure you I am not primarily motivated by altruism. I am having so much more fun than when I lived in the affluent suburbs. It's more like I am trying to tell everybody about this really great thrift store where everything costs $1 and they have all this really cool stuff you didn't even know existed, and it just so happens that some of the proceeds will go to a good cause. Of course, I'm the sort of person who thought it was more fun to hitchhike to the skating rink when I was 14 rather than get a ride from somebody's Mom, so grain of salt.

[tylerrr]

BTW, I just watched "Detropia" on Netflix the other day...I recommend it. Anyone seen it?

[bryan]

Does anyone have any interesting destination suggestions for me to check out while I visit Detroit this weekend and next week? For fun and intrigue.

I've also become aware of some sort of post-punk/garage rock history there that would be interesting to explore (like some dive bar venues or something):
Detroit Punks, The Gories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_M-sDhlliI
White Stripes influence, landscape: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/922 ... tant_Blues
Andre Williams: http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/20 ... -interview

[7Wannabe5]

Just a few random suggestions, not in any particular order:

http://www.heidelberg.org/

http://www.dia.org/

http://www.avalonbreads.net/eat-well-do ... good-cafe/

https://www.easternmarket.com/

http://slowroll.bike/index.php#

http://detroitriverfront.org/things-to- ... riverfront

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/music ... id=2124980

http://www.yelp.com/biz/salvation-army-detroit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamtramck_Disneyland

http://www.detroitzencenter.org/

http://aladdinsweet.com/


I love the Gories. I dated one of the drummers for one of Mick Collins' other bands. Check out the Metro Times link above for possibilities. Many of the dive bar venues are right in my neighborhood, but I rarely visit them because I don't drink much, and I am usually in bed by 10. Detroit is a fun city to bike around if you are not too chicken. If you start at the DIA/University Area, head towards Hamtramck, then towards the Eastern Market and the Riverfront via St. Aubin and the Dequindre Cut, you will get a pretty good tour. If you are interested in any sort of further jaunt into the wilderness, there are many very good nature/recreational opportunities and campgrounds about 3 hours north towards the Rifle and AuSable Rivers and Lake Huron.

[LiquidSapphire]

This is fascinating. Detroit could easily support an ERE enclave from the sounds of it.

Can you speak more to the safety aspect? You live with a man (I presume) and three dogs and you're older so you feel you are not a threat. Do you think there are any neighborhoods that are ERE friendly to a single lady in her 30s?

Can you describe what the four seasons are like? Are they like Minnesota/South Dakota brutal or not so bad? How much sun does the area get or is it sort of NW dreary cloudy much the year?

I might seriously visit Detroit with an eye toward moving there if it is safe and the climate not too atrocious.

[7Wannabe5]

I live with my sister and her 3 dogs. Safety level varies on almost a block by block basis. The street where I currently live seems reasonably safe. The street where I have my main garden and camper is moderately safe. The street where I have my third vacant lot is kind of dangerous. These are all located within a mile of each other. Probably you might want to live with either a man or a dog around here, depending on which you have found to be less trouble.

There is every kind of terrible and good weather here and you never really know what you will get or when you will get it. For instance, it is likely that it will be -10 and a blizzard on January 3rd rather than sunny and 70, but wouldn't bet the farm on it. However, the upside of this is that you can grow more kinds of crops here than any other state except California.

[sky]

Detroit is not really a low cost area, at least in comparison to small towns in southern Michigan. Property taxes are very high, rents are not low, and it is difficult to live a no car life because cheap retail and many other services are in the suburbs. Local culture is bizarre and you need to have ghetto survival instinct to fit in. There are environmental problems all over the place including lead in the soil and industrial dust in the air. Most people are friendly but there are also ultraviolent people that will kill you for a few dollars. You can't always tell the difference. Then there are the people with urban PTSD who are not capable of normal interaction anymore. Once you internalize the ghetto survival skills you will no longer be accepted in normal society.

Detroit is my favorite city because of friends and the extremely high energy there. However as a grey hair who can't run that fast anymore but still has a punk attitude, I would probably be killed eventually if I moved there ala Gran Torino. no joke.

[bryan]

Detroit is not really a low cost area, at least in comparison to small towns in southern Michigan. Property taxes are very high, rents are not low, and it is difficult to live a no car life because cheap retail and many other services are in the suburbs. Local culture is bizarre and you need to have ghetto survival instinct to fit in. There are environmental problems all over the place including lead in the soil and industrial dust in the air. Most people are friendly but there are also ultraviolent people that will kill you for a few dollars. You can't always tell the difference. Then there are the people with urban PTSD who are not capable of normal interaction anymore. Once you internalize the ghetto survival skills you will no longer be accepted in normal society.

Detroit is my favorite city because of friends and the extremely high energy there. However as a grey hair who can't run that fast anymore but still has a punk attitude, I would probably be killed eventually if I moved there ala Gran Torino. no joke.

Ha! This is really going to be an experience! Hopefully not in a bad way. Oakland hasn't been too bad (other than vehicle theft and hearing about muggings); only been in one drive-by shooting. Granted, I am basically never concerned about someone pulling a gun on me other than a mugger (versus living in a place like Detroit where more people are carrying? like if you bump into the wrong person or stare at someone in the wrong way). Also, I'm in Birmingham, AL a lot (about even with Baltimore or Memphis on violence statistics) and never have any issues (I think most of the violence in Bham is much more segregated geographically). Was going to mention NOLA as well, but I think it's a lot safer post Katrina and I've only ever known that (you can actually walk around in the Bywater care-free).

Just a few random suggestions, not in any particular order:

Thanks a bunch! Was hoping you would share a few good ideas

From reading your tales of Detroit-living, I would love to do something similar in Oakland. However, the prices are through the stratosphere; I guess I am a couple decades late to that party. Just ran into this relatively underground venue in Oakland. Each weekend I get to wondering around I discover something new (just reminded of the nice little marina community that had an unlocked toilet I could use... I just googled them and looks like Oakland's largest development in 50 years is happening all round them).

[LiquidSapphire]

Probably you might want to live with either a man or a dog around here, depending on which you have found to be less trouble.

Ha - thanks for the laugh and the info!

[bryan]

I'm sorry to say I didn't take many pictures of my visit to Detroit. I stayed in midtown/Cass Corridor, which seemed pretty safe and overflowing with young folks (maybe Wayne State students?). Based on Trulia, this is probably one of the most in-demand areas in the city with not many crazy deals to be had. Mostly stayed in city limits.

I didn't get to quite do as I wanted or spend time how I wanted since I was with a few different people throughout my stay who wanted to do different things. Would have been to be by myself the whole week.

A few first impressions:

• seems like a great city to have bicycling as your primary transport. Flat, really wide streets, not many cars, and plenty of parallel streets.
• serious lack of grocery stores (Asian, Mexican, normal ones)
• restaurants/bars I visited were the same price as what I'm used to in the Bay Area.
• certainly seems possible to get great value for your money rent-wise for a workspace or living.
• demographically a lot more white women relative to the Bay Area (shocked me the first couple days; guess it matches http://jonathansoma.com/singles/ but would be interesting to bring in ethnic groups as well).
• far less "dangerous" than what I was expecting. Though, again, I didn't get to get around as much as I wanted! Maybe the public transit is so bad you don't have much integration of bad/good seeds into different parts of town; the crime could be more concentrated in certain areas? The folks on the street didn't rub me as sinister as what I'm used to (Oakland, bad parts of SF, and other parts of the Bay Area (my new BART station is apparently in the top 3 for most dangerous)).
• Bell Isle seems like a great resource.
• quite a lot beautiful dilapidated/abandoned/old buildings. I am guessing they are just vacant and for sale above market or owner is just sitting on the property waiting for Detroit to revive? or legitimately abandoned.
• If Detroit government control could become relatively anarchistic/libertarian and focused and offer some incentives (google/muni fiber, public wifi, public art grants, trendy urban planning, re-zoning for this decade, have a massive network of full lanes dedicated to bikes, lots of bike rental stations, incentive "zipcar" locations, favouring certain businesses over others, etc. etc.), I could see plenty of start-ups, people moving in. I of course doubt this will happen.

Overall it seemed like a pretty viable ERE city, especially for being a "major city." The weather could be tough.

[7Wannabe5]

@bryan: I agree with most of your observations. The Midtown/Cass Corridor area is one of the safe islands with private security, more policing and some gentrification going full-swing. Much of the rest of the city, especially close to downtown is not scary like your neck of the woods (my sister lived in the Mission District in the 90s), but more like empty-landscape post-zombie-apocalypse scary. Much of the abandoned property was not even bid on at public auction, so it is in the hands of the state land bank, and can be purchased quite cheaply by any resident with a clean tax record and a reasonable plan for use.

I was rather surprised by your observation of "lots of white women" on campus. Although the university area would likely have the most young white women to be found within the city limits, since many or most commute in from the suburbs, it is so NOT white-bread compared to the suburbs themselves, or just about any other university in the state. Also, your demographic link made me wonder under what rock the other single women my age are hiding, since my sister (49) and I (51) have no difficulty whatsoever finding men over 50 to date.

[sky]

[*] If Detroit government control could become relatively anarchistic/libertarian and focused and offer some incentives (google/muni fiber, public wifi, public art grants, trendy urban planning, re-zoning for this decade, have a massive network of full lanes dedicated to bikes, lots of bike rental stations, incentive "zipcar" locations, favouring certain businesses over others, etc. etc.), I could see plenty of start-ups, people moving in. I of course doubt this will happen.[/list]

Overall it seemed like a pretty viable ERE city, especially for being a "major city." The weather could be tough.

I am curious about what trendy urban planning is, and what rezoning for this decade means.

[bryan]

@7Wannabe5, "lots of white women" was my impression, though there were certainly a good number of black women as well (but that didn't shock me). It is probably just a testament to the shortage of that demographic in the Bay Area. I'm sure if I visited DC or NYC I would be even more shocked. My evening in Ann Arbour probably had a subconscious weighting in my impression (oops).

We should just consider ourselves the lucky few that are more adept at attracting suitors?

@sky, "trendy urban planning" is probably easier to enumerate: walk/bicycle friendly which includes zoning to allow small hubs to develop so that someone never really needs to bike too far, parklets like in SF, or other nice, unique public-use spots that make you want to sit and rest, add market rate parking costs and incentivize decks or underground garages or parking near public transport hubs or shopping centers, and bicycle traffic becomes first-class with safe lanes so as to not require helmets as much, sustainable architecture, integrated (mostly ephemeral?) art pieces, public electrical outlets (low amps) in a few main public spaces, interesting public restrooms, and probably much more..

"rezoning for this decade" is pretty wishy-washy but I mean zoning (and review zoning processes) which accommodates the urban planning above. I haven't read anything which compares effects of different zoning processes/regulations. I just know I constantly hear (Baader-Meinhof?) about "bad" zoning outcomes (too strict rules, tiny houses, NIMBYs overruling local gov, gov that doesn't know what they are doing or have no taste or are corrupt, ticky-tacky suburbia, etc)

Of course it would be interesting to see what the rest of the population thinks on this.. many people love their identical suburban houses still! Maybe that's why people prefer to vote with their money and live in certain locations... I just think perhaps there is both too much and not enough government involvement in township planning.