I have been thinking a tropical country, Thailand, Malaysia in SE Asia, or Costa Rica and Nicaragua in Central America. Have anyone done this? Thoughts?
Retirement overseas?
We've stayed for extended periods in each of those countries. For some reason we keep going back to Thailand despite the long flight.
Pick one and go. Resist the temptation to buy a piece of land. There are plenty of places where you can settle for a while in a furnished apartment/cottage/house and get a feel for things.
Having the OPTION to spend an extended period of time in paradise is very different from having NO CHOICE but to spend time in any one paradise. Being stuck in a place far from "home" surrounded by those of a different culture/language/tradition can be extremely challenging when the honeymoon has worn off.
Some people who find themselves in a position to live long-term in a foreign land feel the need to put down roots. For some reason, not long after touching down they become compelled to go native, marry a local, buy a house, reproduce, start a business, and do a whole bunch of things they would never do in their home country. Go to any expat community in the world and corner a long-timer... they'll tell you stories.
A while ago we tried to figure out why this happens to expats. We didn't really come to a good conclusion other than to notice that those who were quietly living their lives were less susceptible than those who were boisterously trying to buy their dream lifestyle.
Pick one and go. Resist the temptation to buy a piece of land. There are plenty of places where you can settle for a while in a furnished apartment/cottage/house and get a feel for things.
Having the OPTION to spend an extended period of time in paradise is very different from having NO CHOICE but to spend time in any one paradise. Being stuck in a place far from "home" surrounded by those of a different culture/language/tradition can be extremely challenging when the honeymoon has worn off.
Some people who find themselves in a position to live long-term in a foreign land feel the need to put down roots. For some reason, not long after touching down they become compelled to go native, marry a local, buy a house, reproduce, start a business, and do a whole bunch of things they would never do in their home country. Go to any expat community in the world and corner a long-timer... they'll tell you stories.
A while ago we tried to figure out why this happens to expats. We didn't really come to a good conclusion other than to notice that those who were quietly living their lives were less susceptible than those who were boisterously trying to buy their dream lifestyle.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
There's a frugal family living in Cuenca Ecuador with a blog that sparked my interest in this subject (again). Since I found that blog a month or two ago I've been reading about the subject, mostly of Ecuador and Mexico.
It appears the cost of living can be much cheaper. The Cuencan blogging family focus on costs of living a lot. They appear very much like ERE types. It sounds like real estate and food are much less expensive there, while certain things cost much more. Some examples they explained:
- They rent a large and nice house for $250 per month
- They buy locally grown produce for very cheap (15-30% of the cost in the US)
- Health care is cheaper (they don't talk about this much but it is well documented in other blogs and books)
- Electronics and tools cost significantly more than in the US.
Generally, in terms of reducing spending, it seems like a very good fit for most ERE types where our biggest expenses can be housing, food, and eventually, health care. The things that many of us tend to avoid spending on are more expensive (cars, electronics, etc.)
Another downside in spending is that because the broad population is much more frugal (by necessity), there are not the same opportunities to acquire durable goods cheaply because people there do not buy durable goods and then discard them soon - they wear them out. There are no thrift stores, no freecycle, no mass craigslist selling.
On the other side of spending, the opportunity to make money is significantly lower. Work that can be done remotely for US customers could still work pretty well.
I would guess Asia is similar in terms of earning potential, except for opportunities related to manufacturing. I've seen a number of different people or companies that purchase goods directly from factories and sell through Ebay stores, primarily to Americans. This is probably done for a huge range of things - I've seen it working well for bicycle frames and wheels, computer monitors, and I bet it happens for nearly anything mass-produced there of some significant value. If you learn the local language and cultural norms well, already knowing English and American culture would be a big asset in doing this.
There's a frugal family living in Cuenca Ecuador with a blog that sparked my interest in this subject (again). Since I found that blog a month or two ago I've been reading about the subject, mostly of Ecuador and Mexico.
It appears the cost of living can be much cheaper. The Cuencan blogging family focus on costs of living a lot. They appear very much like ERE types. It sounds like real estate and food are much less expensive there, while certain things cost much more. Some examples they explained:
- They rent a large and nice house for $250 per month
- They buy locally grown produce for very cheap (15-30% of the cost in the US)
- Health care is cheaper (they don't talk about this much but it is well documented in other blogs and books)
- Electronics and tools cost significantly more than in the US.
Generally, in terms of reducing spending, it seems like a very good fit for most ERE types where our biggest expenses can be housing, food, and eventually, health care. The things that many of us tend to avoid spending on are more expensive (cars, electronics, etc.)
Another downside in spending is that because the broad population is much more frugal (by necessity), there are not the same opportunities to acquire durable goods cheaply because people there do not buy durable goods and then discard them soon - they wear them out. There are no thrift stores, no freecycle, no mass craigslist selling.
On the other side of spending, the opportunity to make money is significantly lower. Work that can be done remotely for US customers could still work pretty well.
I would guess Asia is similar in terms of earning potential, except for opportunities related to manufacturing. I've seen a number of different people or companies that purchase goods directly from factories and sell through Ebay stores, primarily to Americans. This is probably done for a huge range of things - I've seen it working well for bicycle frames and wheels, computer monitors, and I bet it happens for nearly anything mass-produced there of some significant value. If you learn the local language and cultural norms well, already knowing English and American culture would be a big asset in doing this.
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jacob
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I was born in Denmark, moved to Switzerland at age 24, and moved to the US at age 28. I haven't done any extended visits. I lived, worked, and paid taxes in all three countries.
Based on that, I would say it is very important to be able to integrate somewhat into the local culture. I don't really care if that culture is a culture/colony of expats from one's own country, but I find it important to be able to relate to the people living in the place.
I didn't manage to do this to my satisfaction in Switzerland. This was partially due to practically living in my office (grad school) but also because I didn't speak the language very well. In summary, I talked to my colleagues at work, said Hi to the neighbor, and paid my bills at the post office, but that was it.
Conversely, I think I've done very well in the US to the extent that I think I share more values with my demographics/subculture here than I do with my demographics/subculture in my native country. (Visiting Denmark now feels a bit like going to a foreign country whereby some kind of magic I speak the language and for some reason have family).
So based on my experience, being a virtual foreigner in another country is tolerable but it's not fun in the long run and it wouldn't be worth it for me to do just to save money.
On the other hand, if you like the culture and think you'll fit right in there, I think it's a great idea---definitely better than staying in a country where parts of the culture are disagreeable to you. We are not necessarily born in a country whose culture matches the personality we're born with---and I think it's beneficial to match the two as far as one's passport will allow it.
Based on that, I would say it is very important to be able to integrate somewhat into the local culture. I don't really care if that culture is a culture/colony of expats from one's own country, but I find it important to be able to relate to the people living in the place.
I didn't manage to do this to my satisfaction in Switzerland. This was partially due to practically living in my office (grad school) but also because I didn't speak the language very well. In summary, I talked to my colleagues at work, said Hi to the neighbor, and paid my bills at the post office, but that was it.
Conversely, I think I've done very well in the US to the extent that I think I share more values with my demographics/subculture here than I do with my demographics/subculture in my native country. (Visiting Denmark now feels a bit like going to a foreign country whereby some kind of magic I speak the language and for some reason have family).
So based on my experience, being a virtual foreigner in another country is tolerable but it's not fun in the long run and it wouldn't be worth it for me to do just to save money.
On the other hand, if you like the culture and think you'll fit right in there, I think it's a great idea---definitely better than staying in a country where parts of the culture are disagreeable to you. We are not necessarily born in a country whose culture matches the personality we're born with---and I think it's beneficial to match the two as far as one's passport will allow it.
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George the original one
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secretwealth
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This topic has come up before. In my opinion, it's difficult to shave much off of the COL in a place like the rural midwest. True, you might be able to save $200-300 on rent by going to a third-world country, but you are usually sacrificing something else (space, hygiene, safety, location). There is also the visa issue, which can be costly and/or cumbersome (I'm thinking of Thailand, but this probably applies to other countries too)
IMO, the real difference is in terms of lifestyle--living in a cheap 1br. apartment in Chiang Mai and eating street food is a different lifestyle than living in a 3br. house in rural Ohio. But at the end of the day, I think the COL between the two would pretty much even out to about $700-$1000 per person per month.
IMO, the real difference is in terms of lifestyle--living in a cheap 1br. apartment in Chiang Mai and eating street food is a different lifestyle than living in a 3br. house in rural Ohio. But at the end of the day, I think the COL between the two would pretty much even out to about $700-$1000 per person per month.
As secretwealth points out, this has been discussed before, but it seems to be a topic that still provokes discussion.
The COL in many parts of the US seems to be very low if one lives with the appropriate expectations. Jacob demonstrated by example that one could live in pricey San Francisco on a very low budget. Perhaps it all depends on what you expect to buy-- maids and meals out are cheaper in the third world, for sure, but if I don't need a maid here, why do I need one there?
Many of us have discussed healthcare a lot in these forums-- always a topic of brisk discussion, and mentioned in this thread in relation to ecuador. Why is it that Ecuador is seen to have an advantage over the US? I get that it's cheaper. I read a lot that some folks put a lot of belief into these healthcare rankings-- is the thought that since it's cheaper we don't care that ecuador has a really crappy health care system overall? Is it okay to argue that those who can pay get good care in ecuador-- like ex-pats with US dollar nest-eggs, but not okay to argue that those who can pay get good care in the US?
The COL in many parts of the US seems to be very low if one lives with the appropriate expectations. Jacob demonstrated by example that one could live in pricey San Francisco on a very low budget. Perhaps it all depends on what you expect to buy-- maids and meals out are cheaper in the third world, for sure, but if I don't need a maid here, why do I need one there?
Many of us have discussed healthcare a lot in these forums-- always a topic of brisk discussion, and mentioned in this thread in relation to ecuador. Why is it that Ecuador is seen to have an advantage over the US? I get that it's cheaper. I read a lot that some folks put a lot of belief into these healthcare rankings-- is the thought that since it's cheaper we don't care that ecuador has a really crappy health care system overall? Is it okay to argue that those who can pay get good care in ecuador-- like ex-pats with US dollar nest-eggs, but not okay to argue that those who can pay get good care in the US?
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secretwealth
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I have to say--healthcare in America sucks. As someone who has visited doctors abroad, the U.S. is a mess. Thailand is famous for good hospitals and cheap care. I don't know about Ecuador, but cheap and poor doesn't necessarily equal poor quality when it comes to healthcare.
People in third-world countries live on $100/mo., so I guess you could too. But I don't think you'd want to.
People in third-world countries live on $100/mo., so I guess you could too. But I don't think you'd want to.
Let me start off by saying living abroad is not for everybody. Seriously, let me repeat that, living abroad is not for everybody. It is not a vacation. You need to deal with all of the stuff you find annoying in your home country (the DMV, insurance, landlords etc) and times it by 10 because of language/cultural differences.
Having said that, if you are the type of person who can adapt then there are some serious opportunities both pre-ere and in retirement. I have lived in Thailand and currently live in China. Thailand I could live in forever but I am still building up to FI so for me China pays the bills. I am a university lecturer so my salary is not necessarily normal but I currently make around 22,000rmb a month. I think an English "teacher" with no qualifications would make around 6,000. Of my salary 3,000 goes toward rent which is split with my GF. We have a huge (too big) 3 bedroom apartment overlooking a lake in a very modern part of town. Realistically I will save 2/3rds of my income without breaking a sweat because the cost of living is lower here. The salary is exactly the same as the university I worked at in the US but somehow I never had any money to save when living in California.
So the ERE implications are certainly there. However, I have to wear a mask to ride my motorbike and buy expensive filters for my water supply etc etc. It is a trade off I am only willing to make for so long. So I guess my point is, the stories you hear about COL differences are often true and there are lots of income opportunities, however the impacts to health and well being are less quantifiable and often weigh more in the end. I have seen many new expats come and go, both here and in Thailand.
Having said that, if you are the type of person who can adapt then there are some serious opportunities both pre-ere and in retirement. I have lived in Thailand and currently live in China. Thailand I could live in forever but I am still building up to FI so for me China pays the bills. I am a university lecturer so my salary is not necessarily normal but I currently make around 22,000rmb a month. I think an English "teacher" with no qualifications would make around 6,000. Of my salary 3,000 goes toward rent which is split with my GF. We have a huge (too big) 3 bedroom apartment overlooking a lake in a very modern part of town. Realistically I will save 2/3rds of my income without breaking a sweat because the cost of living is lower here. The salary is exactly the same as the university I worked at in the US but somehow I never had any money to save when living in California.
So the ERE implications are certainly there. However, I have to wear a mask to ride my motorbike and buy expensive filters for my water supply etc etc. It is a trade off I am only willing to make for so long. So I guess my point is, the stories you hear about COL differences are often true and there are lots of income opportunities, however the impacts to health and well being are less quantifiable and often weigh more in the end. I have seen many new expats come and go, both here and in Thailand.
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spearson1937
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Living in SE Asia would mean that your money is worth a lot. One of the comments here stated that natives can live at $100/mo. That could be very true, you don't need to purchase a property until you have finally decided to settle in foreign country for good. Some countries would not even allow foreigners to buy properties, unless you are married to a local.
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RealPerson
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We have a good friend who retired to Thailand. He is married to a Thai citizen. Overall, he seems fairly happy with his choice. Thai are friendly people, the food is great, the cost of living low, the climate is warm and medical care is decent for a developing country. That is the good part.
The downsides are the distance to the US (he clearly is disliking being so far away from his kids and friends), the fact that foreigners cannot buy property regardless of whether they are married to a Thai citizen or not, and the HUGE language barrier. Especially the language is proving a challenge. Of course, there is the red tape, which you encounter in many places. Much as Thailand sounds like a great place (I have been there several times) to retire, I think the long and expensive flights to the US and the language would prove hard to live with over many years. It definitely takes a special mindset, but then ERE types don't mind stretching their mind and living without some of the western comforts. One of these comforts is safe tap water.
The downsides are the distance to the US (he clearly is disliking being so far away from his kids and friends), the fact that foreigners cannot buy property regardless of whether they are married to a Thai citizen or not, and the HUGE language barrier. Especially the language is proving a challenge. Of course, there is the red tape, which you encounter in many places. Much as Thailand sounds like a great place (I have been there several times) to retire, I think the long and expensive flights to the US and the language would prove hard to live with over many years. It definitely takes a special mindset, but then ERE types don't mind stretching their mind and living without some of the western comforts. One of these comforts is safe tap water.
Setting roots too deeply without citizenship can be risky.
The cliche story is a divorced Boomer with a small pension, too small to live in the U.S. or Europe but enough to get by in Y2K Thailand where the Baht was more than 40 to $1USD. They meet a young woman, get married, and reproduce. They started a small business which allowed them to buy property and get a long-term visa.
Then the Baht surged against the dollar. and the GB Pound.
Then, last week the Thai government changed the rules on foreign business ownership. Suddenly all those people who bought land using a Thai lawyer as a nominal business partner are faced with potential loss of their property.
The cliche story is a divorced Boomer with a small pension, too small to live in the U.S. or Europe but enough to get by in Y2K Thailand where the Baht was more than 40 to $1USD. They meet a young woman, get married, and reproduce. They started a small business which allowed them to buy property and get a long-term visa.
Then the Baht surged against the dollar. and the GB Pound.
Then, last week the Thai government changed the rules on foreign business ownership. Suddenly all those people who bought land using a Thai lawyer as a nominal business partner are faced with potential loss of their property.
Thailand is a great place to visit, probably not for long term. I reconsidered my options, now more inclined to retire in China.
The food is great, a lot of varieties, and doesn't make you fat ..
Also the health care, is about 1/50 of what costs in US. This makes a lot of sense because I was born and raised in China, in a way that I can enjoy most convenience of being a local.
pretty sure it will be much more different for a non native speaker.
Another good thing is the good investment return in China right now. I have a one year CD getting 3.5%, guaranteed by the government. A three years CD can get around 4.25%. Also the RMB has gone up in value against USD in the past a few years, which adds up to the gain.
The food is great, a lot of varieties, and doesn't make you fat ..
Also the health care, is about 1/50 of what costs in US. This makes a lot of sense because I was born and raised in China, in a way that I can enjoy most convenience of being a local.
pretty sure it will be much more different for a non native speaker.
Another good thing is the good investment return in China right now. I have a one year CD getting 3.5%, guaranteed by the government. A three years CD can get around 4.25%. Also the RMB has gone up in value against USD in the past a few years, which adds up to the gain.
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ICouldBeTheWalrus
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I am very skeptical of this description of China. My impression of China (from people on our team at work in Beijing, other people who have worked elsewhere in China temporarily, etc.):
Health care is cheap but quality is very valuable. Some people were of the opinion that one just shouldn't have dental work done there if at all possible.
Investment options (for Chinese citizens at least) are so poor as to explain their real estate bubble: They're not allowed to invest in foreign stocks, they don't trust domestic stocks, bank savings accounts may sound good (as you describe), but when you look at inflation, they're not good either.
Health care is cheap but quality is very valuable. Some people were of the opinion that one just shouldn't have dental work done there if at all possible.
Investment options (for Chinese citizens at least) are so poor as to explain their real estate bubble: They're not allowed to invest in foreign stocks, they don't trust domestic stocks, bank savings accounts may sound good (as you describe), but when you look at inflation, they're not good either.
Health care: You are not going to get the same service as here, by that I mean the patience of the doctor, the friendly of the staff, just simply because there are a lot more patients to be seen in China.
About the qualification and experience of Chinese doctors, I won't say they are less competent than the US ones. Even you don't need a bachelor to attend medical school in China, but there are still vigorous training and residency required. Plus they got to see a lot more patients and gain more clinical experience.
One Example, DH got a UTI over the X'mas weekend. In order to get some antibiotics, he had to see a doctor in urgent care, $250 for just the prescription, then if you consider the medicine, fuel costs to get there, that is more than half month of our food budget. In China, you can see a doctor for probably $0.50, or just go to the pharmacy directly and buy the medicine should you know what is needed.
My father passed away last year due to late stage liver cancer. He received the same treatment he would have received even if he was in the US, with total cost around 30k USD. It is a lot of money for ordinary Chinese family, but same treatment here will probably bankrupt a working class family if you have no insurance, or you have not hit the medicare age.
Dental care: I agree the preventive care in China is not as good as here. People won't see a dentist until their tooth hurts. But that does not mean a dentist will deny your regular checkup, or teeth cleaning, should you request one.
There are a lot of complaints about China from Chinese people living there, and believe me, I used to be one of them. But after visiting different places and living outside China for a couple years, I start to appreciate what China has to offer.
About the qualification and experience of Chinese doctors, I won't say they are less competent than the US ones. Even you don't need a bachelor to attend medical school in China, but there are still vigorous training and residency required. Plus they got to see a lot more patients and gain more clinical experience.
One Example, DH got a UTI over the X'mas weekend. In order to get some antibiotics, he had to see a doctor in urgent care, $250 for just the prescription, then if you consider the medicine, fuel costs to get there, that is more than half month of our food budget. In China, you can see a doctor for probably $0.50, or just go to the pharmacy directly and buy the medicine should you know what is needed.
My father passed away last year due to late stage liver cancer. He received the same treatment he would have received even if he was in the US, with total cost around 30k USD. It is a lot of money for ordinary Chinese family, but same treatment here will probably bankrupt a working class family if you have no insurance, or you have not hit the medicare age.
Dental care: I agree the preventive care in China is not as good as here. People won't see a dentist until their tooth hurts. But that does not mean a dentist will deny your regular checkup, or teeth cleaning, should you request one.
There are a lot of complaints about China from Chinese people living there, and believe me, I used to be one of them. But after visiting different places and living outside China for a couple years, I start to appreciate what China has to offer.
investment options: It is true that there are not many ways to invest your money, like foreign stocks. But the current high interest rate is not solely due to high inflation. The government is trying to cool off the real state bubble. On the other hand, there has been moderate amount of inflation in the US due to all the $$ printed, but the bank is not even offering interest high enough to offset that.
I spent 6 months in Philippines and almost 2 years in Thailand in an effort to live a better life for less.
I probably made mistakes in both cases - I lived near Manila in the former, and in Bangkok in the latter. There's huge drawbacks to those places in terms of quality of life, pollution, ugly/minimal parks (within the city), crowded, transportation issues, comfort, etc. And in general in foreign countries, there's always issues in terms of language, security, etc.
My conclusion is that ultimately, you get what you pay for. There's a very real tradeoff, for what seems to be not really much of a lower cost of living. Basically you lose a ton of the benefits that more developed nations seem to have - free libraries, beautiful parks/environment, access to cheap electronics/machines via craigslist/etc like someone else mentioned, and all sorts of other support.
Thailand turned out to be considerably more expensive than Philippines just in the cost of visas alone (by tourist visa - it works out to 2,000 THB/mo or $70/mo on average in Thailand). Also, food and rent seems about 20-30% more expensive.
I'm feeling pretty disillusioned in terms of retirement abroad. If it was an amazing beach place away from the cities, then it might be worth it in SE Asia. Who knows?
I probably made mistakes in both cases - I lived near Manila in the former, and in Bangkok in the latter. There's huge drawbacks to those places in terms of quality of life, pollution, ugly/minimal parks (within the city), crowded, transportation issues, comfort, etc. And in general in foreign countries, there's always issues in terms of language, security, etc.
My conclusion is that ultimately, you get what you pay for. There's a very real tradeoff, for what seems to be not really much of a lower cost of living. Basically you lose a ton of the benefits that more developed nations seem to have - free libraries, beautiful parks/environment, access to cheap electronics/machines via craigslist/etc like someone else mentioned, and all sorts of other support.
Thailand turned out to be considerably more expensive than Philippines just in the cost of visas alone (by tourist visa - it works out to 2,000 THB/mo or $70/mo on average in Thailand). Also, food and rent seems about 20-30% more expensive.
I'm feeling pretty disillusioned in terms of retirement abroad. If it was an amazing beach place away from the cities, then it might be worth it in SE Asia. Who knows?
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secretwealth
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The low cost retirement visa in Ecuador seems to negate the high cost of visa runs, but I do agree that the tradeoffs when moving to a third-world country are considerable. Not just in terms of safety, but in terms of free amenities.
In NYC, there are regularly free lectures, events, movies in the park, and other things to occupy one's time in addition to the great free parks and museums that can be enjoyed year-round. In Bangkok, pretty much everything costs, although it costs very little.
Money wise, you can retire in a third-world country on less than $1000/mo. very easily. Jacob has proven that this is possible, but probably harder for most people, in an American city.
At the end of the day, the decision to retire abroad lies more in lifestyle choice. Do you want to be able to eat papaya while walking on the beach and smelling incense from Buddhist monasteries? Do you want to sit at a roadside cafe and eat tacos? Or do you want to go to the library, walk around the park, and ride your bike on safe streets? The choice is pretty much yours.
I do think, in both circumstances, the early retiree is going to feel a sense of distance from the natives. In NYC I feel isolated from people who have to work in an office 5 days a week (although I'm not really fully ERE). Likewise, in Guatemala I feel isolated from people who have a completely different cultural and economic background to me.
In NYC, there are regularly free lectures, events, movies in the park, and other things to occupy one's time in addition to the great free parks and museums that can be enjoyed year-round. In Bangkok, pretty much everything costs, although it costs very little.
Money wise, you can retire in a third-world country on less than $1000/mo. very easily. Jacob has proven that this is possible, but probably harder for most people, in an American city.
At the end of the day, the decision to retire abroad lies more in lifestyle choice. Do you want to be able to eat papaya while walking on the beach and smelling incense from Buddhist monasteries? Do you want to sit at a roadside cafe and eat tacos? Or do you want to go to the library, walk around the park, and ride your bike on safe streets? The choice is pretty much yours.
I do think, in both circumstances, the early retiree is going to feel a sense of distance from the natives. In NYC I feel isolated from people who have to work in an office 5 days a week (although I'm not really fully ERE). Likewise, in Guatemala I feel isolated from people who have a completely different cultural and economic background to me.
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TheWanderingScholar
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Re: Retirement overseas?
We just rented a small furnished house way up at the top of the medina (8 flights of stairs) in Essaouira, Morrocco for about $400. Excellent weather. Windy beach with horses and camels. Awoken each morning by the call to prayer. Extremely cheap, healthy food. Extremely nice people. There is a small expat community that we seem to have landed smack dab in the middle of and we now have more invitations that we know what to do with. One fascinating American woman who bought a medina house in the early 80s just after getting her Phd (she was fed up with the system) and never left. She somehow grows much of her food and animals on the roof and lives a very self-sufficient life.
There is a three month tourist visa on arrival and many apply for the retirement visa which seems to be much easier to get than Thailand. I do not know if there is an age requirement. Property is cheap. There are some expat owned businesses, so that is possible. So far it seems like a good ERE place to settle for medium/longterm.
There is a three month tourist visa on arrival and many apply for the retirement visa which seems to be much easier to get than Thailand. I do not know if there is an age requirement. Property is cheap. There are some expat owned businesses, so that is possible. So far it seems like a good ERE place to settle for medium/longterm.