Outside A College Town

All the different ways of solving the shelter problem. To be static or mobile? Roots, legs, or wheels?
NYC ERE
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Post by NYC ERE »

That's where I envision my ERE: Buy a $20k piece of land within 10-15 bike-able miles of a college town, a $5k RV, then build a house within a couple years. Grow all food, hunt all meat. I'd probably keep an office in town for whatever my part-time (5 hrs/wk.) business is, and come in there at least once a week to fill up on digital media and books, check the portfolio, hang out, etc.; I like the idea of not having internet at home (my current situation). Preferably I'd go into town 3-4 times a week for tennis, actually.
I'd like to have friends in town and out of town who are knowledgeable, tolerant and interesting, and who relish dinner parties and brunches at each other's homes. We'd talk about books, film, our families, travel plans, and so on. I would not be in great peril cycling on the road, and I wouldn't be unique in traveling within town by bicycle.
So, where's this place? Been there?
The closest I've experienced to this is Bayreuth, Germany. My friend and I stayed in a converted farmhouse outside that town <10km away, and it was really lovely. One day our host led us across the wheat fields behind the backyard, where we bought fresh milk from a dairy. There was a lovely pantry in the house and interesting college students who were our hosts. This was on a European bicycle tour--I can't help but think there must be a similar place in the US, which I haven't explored nearly as much (I'm an American).


firefighter
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Post by firefighter »

I think you could pull this off in Harrisonburg, VA.

(Home of JMU)
Might not have quite the European charm of your

German town, but there's plenty of farms nearby

and lots of interesting intellectual life.
It is possible to get involved in the town without being student/ faculty, but you might have a quicker "in" into the intellectual social life if you took a class or two to meet people. (that would cost you extra money out of your portfolio,

but i think it'd be worth it).
-FF


George the original one
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Post by George the original one »

In Oregon, that would be Eugene or Corvallis or Ashland. Hunting meat, unless you're including fish, is a severely limiting policy as the seasons and locations you can hunt are small.
Hardest part would be finding land for $20k within 10-15 miles of any of those cities. More likely it will cost at least $100k. If you weren't set on the college town (and I don't blame you for preferring them!), then you might manage to find land for $50k.
What's legal to hunt & when, without getting into drawing for a tag: 1 deer tag (archery, late Aug - Sep), 1 deer tag (rifle, Oct), 1 elk tag (rifle, Nov), many greytail squirrel (fall), many pheasant (fall), many quail (fall), many chukar (fall), many duck & geese (January-ish), a few turkey (Mar?). "Varmints" are available at any time, but the ubiquitous Oregon brush rabbit is little bigger than a squirrel. Note that spring and summer are going to be lean seasons!


jacob
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Post by jacob »

I have lived at the city "ring" (edge) in three different places (everywhere I've lived since I moved away from home has been university centered.) This is within biking range of the city without turning it into an expedition. In that regard ... the city conveniences can be had in pretty much any college town and you can pull of ERE in a wide range of places.
Actually, when I lived with my parents, it was about 15 miles from the "big city"---out in the country. This was not notably cheaper because 15 miles is easily drivable. They won't drop until it becomes quite inconvenient for the car owners... or I suppose if the area is otherwise marginal.
I think in terms of friends that depends on the person more than the place.
Land prices is where you use the internet and *mls searches. Now, in my understanding, it takes 5+ years of serious work to learn to feed oneself from a garden. Those 5 years would include building the soil. I don't know about hunting.


Muji
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Post by Muji »

Cambridge, England would meet the criteria if only land/property prices were lower. 100k won't cut it here. Cycling is extremely common with cycle paths leading into the city from all directions.


ktn
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Post by ktn »

Care to elaborate on the pros (I am assuming there are no cons) of living in or near a student town? I have heard more than one thread on here mention it.
If the ER-advantages are huge, I'd certainly like to take it into consideration when I make my next move. Thanks!


JohnnyH
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Post by JohnnyH »

Jacob, is right on this one. I think you have to approach the car commute threshold to see cheap land/living.
I'm thinking of something similar but with much less frequency into a big town. Maybe once or twice a month... Distance would be mostly outside the big city's sphere of influence.
I currently live in a situation like this and enjoy it fairly well. There is also a bus to and from the city.


Checking Carly
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Post by Checking Carly »

Do many (or any) areas in the US let you hunt year round? I thought there was that whole seasons thing. I feel like that could create a hole in your plans?


JohnnyH
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Post by JohnnyH »

I don't think there are year round hunting seasons. Maybe a few exceptions I've heard of feral pigs being so out of control that year round hunting, without a license is encouraged.
Just get a freezer for the meat and you're good to go.


NYC ERE
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Post by NYC ERE »

@ Jacob re:gardening--uh-oh. is that five years skill-building or actually cultivating the plants and soil? i'm hoping it's the former and that i can get started now. got a good book to suggest, or should i just look in your bibliography? :)
@ Johnny I assume you'd be driving when you go to town? do you have a family/plan to have one? what about friends and get-togethers?
@ Carly Good point--no, there's no year-round hunting anywhere. i'm assuming i'll have a large chest freezer and i'll also make a lot of jerky and smoked meat.
@ktn re: why a college town? i have the vague notion that college towns are little bastions of culture in often deserts of conservatism, but without the high costs of living of a larger city. this is based on scanty experience, though, i must admit. the only college towns i'm familiar with are Berkeley and Charlottesville, both of which are quite expensive to live in.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

That's 5 years of soil building, getting the right ratios, getting the weed seeds out of the ground, etc. to take a land from marginal to rich.


HSpencer
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Post by HSpencer »

We have been gardening for many years. This has been stop and go due to other activities. It does take a lot of work to get your soil into good shape. This year I took soil samples to the County Agent and had them analyzed for free. You get back a computer generated report telling you the ph, and what to put into the soil to balance it for crops. We were quite short on Calcium, so we had to tiller in a lot of Hydrated Lime. I learned that a shortage of calcium will cause bottom rot on tomatoes. After putting in the calcium this year, I had no bottom rot on any of my tomatoes. Also we learned if growing corn, we needed to side dress the rows with nitrogen. So it takes a lot of research, but there are plenty of help out there for getting things into shape. Good advice can come from the local Farmer;s CO-OP. We raised a bounty of lot of things this year, and were able to supply friends and family.


ktn
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Post by ktn »

Ahh.. thank you. Austin perhaps? I have never lived there but hear from friends how cheap Texas is. I have no idea how much game there is in Texas though.


Maus
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Post by Maus »

College towns are not utopias. Aside from the town versus gown conflicts, rooted in the exuberance of youthful drinking and musical tastes; there are some financial realities to contend with as well. College professors want exceptionally high quality schools for their children, so the tax base to support those schools is typically higher -- property, sales, income or utility taxes will be higher than average. As noted, land within a ten-mile radius of the college will be at a premium. There will be a greater tendency to restrict land-use through zoning and urban planning requirements that may be incompatible with the subsistence-farm ethos an ERE would be pushing. Ultimately, living near a large cohort of college-educated people is an amenity that has an economic cost. I've lived in a rural town of 13,000 where less than 10% had degrees. I had good friends and many fine social occasions; but very few opportunities to discuss Aristotelian ethics or Kantian epistemology. Each individual EREista has to decide where such opportunities fall on the need versus want continuum.


George the original one
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Post by George the original one »

Double-checking the RMLS.com listings, looks like Eugene has the most bare land openings... typical price, however, is $140k (I only searched for 1 acre & larger, didn't worry about zoning).
There are a few pieces of land for sale around Philomath & Corvallis, but, they too are typically $140k+.
Ashland doesn't seem to have anything under $200k unless you want 140 acres.
***
Building the soil: pay for truckloads of compost (about one truckload at $300-400 ea per 1,000 sq ft of garden), till it into the western Oregon clay in September, and you'll have plenty of fertility for the spring planting season. In Oregon's climate, you'll want a greenhouse or a number of coldframes, if you intend to subsist on your own plantings.
***
One of the strongest reasons for prefering a college town is that the best Internet access is in those towns plus lots of young folk that might be eager for lessons from a master of whatever you manage to master.


Muji
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Post by Muji »

Some of the benefits of a university town are diversity (international students/staff) and the available support the diversity supports (ethnic grocers/language tuition/religious variety), progressive/forward thinking populous, good schools, youthful population and an educated community. I'm not sure if these factors are true at all university towns, but I think they would hold true at any large renown university.

As Maus mentioned, it all depends on where they fall on your personal continuum.
Negatives would probably be the rowdiness of youth if that bothers you and the transient nature of the population.
How about Cambridge, MA - maybe an hour away isn't too expensive?


JohnnyH
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Post by JohnnyH »

@NYC: mix of driving, biking, bussing and bumming... I'd love to get comfortable with hitchhiking. It just makes so much sense, plus it might lead to meeting interesting folks... Screw the [alarmist] media!
I would probably live outside of the big city where I have family and [old] friends... 1-3 trips a month is plenty for me. The distance would provide a nice buffer as well. ;) Hopefully, the small town will have adequate company otherwise...
No family for probably 6-10 years, but children would probably reinforce the decision as I want to use them as ag workers!
I haven't really decided on an optimum distance, location yet. But I do like your idea.


hickchick
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Post by hickchick »

I doubt this place will bring much. By that I mean $40K tops, and I would drop out of the bidding at $25K.
http://www.nebraskaauctionguide.com/cgi ... 1280149910
You want to look at the details for Track II. The house is falling apart, serious foundation issues, but the original wood flooring can probably be salvaged. It's 16 miles from downtown Lincoln and you even have neighbors on two sides. The rest is a sea of corn.
Deer have become such a nuisance that the state has opened up the season. I saw one of the locals biking on the highway on my way out to look at the place. There are about 6 miles of gravel from the main highway, so I don't know how bikable it would be in the winter. Waverly, the closest town, has been avoiding annexation by Lincoln for a while. Even if that were to happen, I think you would still be far enough out not to feel the tax pinch.
The only real question is whether your neighbors would be the kind you envision. Lincoln does have a small enclave of hippies, if that floats your boat.
I'd probably get caught with my hand up at that auction if my hubby would get on board...
I'll go ahead and try to cover the rest of the Big 12 for you since I've gone on this long. I noticed someone mentioned Austin earlier. Land values around Austin are crazy. Not to mention any acreages would be well out of bikeable territory. I lived in town and my bike ride to downtown was still almost 10 miles. I don't know much about Lubbock, but that would probably be your best bet in Texas. Land values in eastern Kansas were quite high a few years ago, but I haven't paid attention lately. You might be able to find something suitable outside Lawrence (probably not) or Manhattan. You couldn't pay me enough money to live in Oklahoma, Missouri, or Colorado. You might be able to find a place outside of Ames, IA, but once again I think the land values would be more than you want to pay.


Q
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Post by Q »

I am still trying to figure out an equitable place here in California that can be cheap and provide most of the ERE tendencies...


photoguy
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Post by photoguy »

I think moving near a small college town is a great idea. Wife is from ames, ia and it certainly has quite a bit more culture than other non-college towns we've passed through. There's more diversity than other towns it's size (important especially if you like ethnic foods) and I think we'd be much more likely to meet people with similar interests.
@NYC ERE -- how much land do you figure you'll need for growing food?
@Q -- if you find such a place in CA, please post. Right now we are living in San Jose, we really like the area but the price of real estate makes it more difficult to ERE.


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