Detroit May Be One Of The Best ERE Cities..

All the different ways of solving the shelter problem. To be static or mobile? Roots, legs, or wheels?
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FrugalZen
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Post by FrugalZen »

Unfortunately I left my copy of the Economist Magazine at work but there is an article about Detroit and other cities that are shrinking.
Detroit has dropped from 2M population to 714,000 and homes and land are dirt cheap.
One of the things is that the local county now has a land bank that contains foreclosed and abandonded land.
There was mention of two people who bought 3 lots for $50 each and lease 13 more from the land bank (total of around 2 acres) and are running an Heirloom Tomato Farm in the city.
With land that cheap and the city willing to let you do just about anything if you'll take the property it might be great for a "Tumbleweed Village"...despite the winter weather.
The article said that New York is about to sign into law one that would allow land banks as well.


sky
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Post by sky »

Yes and no
Housing costs are low but crime is high and city services (police) are not responsive. It is risky to live in some areas. Some areas are OK. Generally speaking, a decent house will cost 20 to 40k, cheaper houses are available for much less but often are trashed with copper stripped out. Taxes are relatively high. There are a lot of huge industrial plants with some environmental impacts on surrounding neighborhoods.
Here is a link to a third party site that is very helpful in identifying tax foreclosure properties:
http://whydontweownthis.com/#11.37/42.3536/-83.0999
Here is my site with some Michigan advice:
http://metropioneer.com
From my perspective the number one location for ERE in Michigan right now is Grand Rapids, and specifically the Stocking neighborhood, west of the river near the 6th Street Bridge. Housing costs about 50k, more or less, easy bike ride downtown to a lot of free cultural events and activities. Danger level low to moderate.
Detroit is attractive in some ways because it is a far better city than often made out to be. But it still is a tough, dangerous town.


S
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Post by S »

I lived in the area this summer and loved Detroit. I'd say it's very ERE-friendly in both expenses and attitude, because many people there have actually lived without a career and realized it doesn't need to be the center of their life. Free activities abounded. The public transit was abysmal, but it is a good city for biking since the roads are flat, empty, and a true grid. I don't know how practical that would be in the winter though. We are strongly considering settling there after we finish doing the location independent thing, though I don't know if we'll settle in the city itself. Unfortunately there is an income tax for living in the city itself, so we'll probably live in one of the inner suburbs like Ferndale. I have friends in the area that have bought nice houses that needed minimal work in the $20-30k range in inner burbs as well (Hazel Park and Southfield). Of course there is crime in the city, but I felt pretty safe biking around and avoiding the sketchiest areas of town. You can live in the burbs with way less crime, but still be close enough to bike to the city and it's still quite cheap. The reason people seem to leave is a lack of jobs and dislike of winter weather, neither of which bother me.


FrugalZen
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Post by FrugalZen »

The article also talked about the man who founded Quicken Loans who moved his entire operation to Detroit...they are starting to revitalize the area of the old downtown.
Every city has its bad areas...even small towns do. Though sometimes all it takes to turn an area around are people moving in and fixing things up..."Gentrification" in other words.
The lure I would believe at this point is all the free/almost free land and the willingness of the city to allow you to do just about anything with it if you will just take it.
As for jobs...from an ERE perspective if they have them or not does it matter???? And a City Income Tax is on Wages earned in the city...No Job...No Tax.
Other articles I've read indicate that Detroit is seriously considering actually shrinking the size of the city itself...move the city boundries back in and leaving the suburbs and associated required services to the county...the county is not pleased with the idea as you can imagine.
The city pension liability may be what ends it...Detroit has a high probability of becoming insolvent/bankrupt...after that and a retreat of the city boundries the city should roar back...and it has such easy access to Canada.


palmera
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Post by palmera »

in ERE i'd seriously consider buying a bargain basement cheap house or piece of land, just for the heck of it. i mean, a city can only go so low, right? it's in such prime location, near a Great Lake and beloved Canada.
a friend I know had a few thousand dollars to spare at bought an old victorian house. which he now lives in and commutes to Windsor for work or school or something.


Mo
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Post by Mo »

@FrugalZen, "As for jobs...from an ERE perspective if they have them or not does it matter????"
For many things it is helpful if the people around you have an income, which most people will get from working a job (unless we can convert them all). For example if you want to serve as a landlord, you'll want your tenants to have a job.


JohnnyH
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Post by JohnnyH »

Property taxes are a liability, I bet they're still increasing every year... Kinda funny, houses selling for <5% of the annual taxes. Deal breaker for me.
PARTS of Detroit MIGHT come back. But choose carefully, as a whole I think Detroit it is clearly down for the count. Thousands of homes will completely go back to nature.


DividendGuy
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Post by DividendGuy »

You could give me a free house in Detroit and I still wouldn't live there. No, thanks.


jacob
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Post by jacob »

I think Detroit has already been claimed by OCP for Delta City.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar »

You get the best Nuke in the world there.


Jim8288
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Post by Jim8288 »

I lived in Detroit for 4 years while going to Wayne State University and have lived within 20 miles of Down Town the rest of my life. I will say that Detroit does have a lot to offer for someone of our mindset. They have one of the largest open air farmers market in the country (Eastern Market) and urban farming is definitely becoming more viable there. Biking is pretty great since the infrastructure was built for twice as many people so a lot of the streets are pretty much vacant, and also the hub of Detroit is doing a lot of great things to make it a more bike friendly city.
However, it is one of the most disgusting and frustrating cities I've ever been to. MOST of the people there couldn't care less about the city. I have known multiple people get their homes broken into, it's also pretty much a given that if you own a car in Detroit eventually it will get broken into AT LEAST once, I have known MULTIPLE people who have been held up at gun point, and sadly my co-worker's brother was murdered in Detroit for his car. I have wanted to be car free for awhile but since I have to go through the outskirts of Detroit from time to time my wife won't let me ride my bike because of safety. This evidence is obviously anecdotal but you can look at the data too if you want.
I realize that I am painting a pretty bad picture, but I don't want anyone to be surprised when they move into Detroit at how utterly crappy it is. Also, the public school systems is one of the worst in the country as well (25% graduation rate!) so plan on sending your kids to a private school. Also, I would plan on buying some sort of home defense gun as well, I kept a 12 gauge with a riot barrel under my bed at all times.
Long story short: Grand Rapids is a really nice city!


chenda
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Post by chenda »

This is interesting. Sometimes you hear things about detroit which make you assume its an abandoned ghost-city, yet othertimes it appears to be a vibrant city with a revitalized centre.
Either way, the vast abandoned buildings are fascinating: http://www.forgottendetroit.com/ Some have been restored, sadly lots have been demolished...


Hoplite
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Post by Hoplite »

This pre-Halloween, Detroit experienced only about half the number of fires from 2010 but it is unclear whether they are just running out of things to burn:
http://www.freep.com/article/20111101/N ... -last-year
There are good parts of almost any city, but Detroit still has its problems.


OurLifeInc.
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Post by OurLifeInc. »

I actually live right downtown, less than a quarter mile from Comerica Park and Ford Field. My wife and I just moved here in July. Before that we lived in the suburbs. The big impetus was that I got a job here. So now I walk or take the people move daily and my wife commutes to Dearborn, which is about 8 miles. She would ride her bike but it gets shady on the outskirts of Detroit.
Most of what has been said is true. Downtown is very safe and the city has taken steps to ensure that it remains so. The worst thing would be for crime to be up downtown, because right now one of the few bright spots is events (sports and entertainment). The city is also targeting areas and making sure they get support, like Southeast Detroit near Mexicantown and a few other areas. In my mind, there is a lot happening down here and we are slowly approaching critical mass. Quicken just moved 2,000 employees here in October on top of the 2,000+ they already had down here. Blue Cross Blue Shield just moved about 3,000 down here in the summer. Right down the street from me there are major renovations going on to 3 buildings which will include about 1,000 apartments. From what I have heard, there is a long waiting list to get into these places. I checked out an open house at one and it was packed. Dan Gilbert, the Quicken Loans founder partnered with a few other wealthy enterpreneurs to start a venture fund. They are looking for web startups and have made about 10 investments, then bring those companies downtown to incubate them. Another company, GalaxE Solutions has about 200 employees here and they are in the process of hiring 300 more right now.
So all of that said, you can see the improvement on a monthly basis, as more jobs come, as more people move downtown things improve and there is less and less "shadyness" so to speak.
As for prices, it depends on where you live. You can certainly get a house for very sheap in some nice areas. My wife and I didn't want to commit to another purchase (we are renting our old house out now with plans to sell it in the spring...)so we rented an 800 square foot loft for $850 a month. We definitely could have found a cheaper place, but the buildings we looked at that were chepaer were much older and were just not our style. Parking and water are included in our place, but we pay gas and electric. All in all, much cheaper to live here than our other house, even just considering the rent vs. mortgage and all of the utility bills. When you factor in transportation, it is a huge savings.
Like I said, Detroit certainly isn't perfect, but there are a lot of great things happening down here. I'd certainly encourage anyone to come check it out...there is a really great vibe going on and it is great to be a part of.


justjohn
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Post by justjohn »

Could someone familiar with the area comment on this property:

http://www.trulia.com/property/30664566 ... t-MI-48202
(3500 sq ft for $50k asking price)

Could I potentially rent out 2-3 rooms and make $??? income- students or ERE types? Is the city easy to work with on this? (I live in the Lansing area and know that EL is horrible on rental regulations, but Lansing isn't too bad)
Or leads on a small apartment building?


sky
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Post by sky »

That house is north of the Midtown area which is one of the better neighborhoods for students. However, the house is right on a dividing line between the war zone to the north and the gentrified Midtown to the south.
Might be OK, maybe scary, depends a lot on your point of view.



S
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Post by S »

@justjohn That's an iffy area. I would definitely want to see the place in person because it's a checkerboard of kind of sketchy and horrible in that area. The closer you get to Highland Park the worse it is and gets nicer south of there closer to Wayne State. There's actually such a housing shortage in Midtown right now that new lofts are being built. Heck, even a Whole Foods is going in. That area is getting kind of pricey, though still cheaper than many other cities. Try looking in or around Woodbridge and Corktown like http://www.trulia.com/property/30583292 ... t-MI-48216.


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