ERE City (US)

Post by **jacob** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:03 pm

@dragoncar - It depends on your biking distance

I would suspect that for something like Pittsburgh, PA, it wouldn't be the case(?)---some of these big cities are easily several miles across and usually surrounded by burbs. Also, while I could see having a lot of trees 5 miles away, I would be hard pressed to imagine a chicken coop or even a garden.

Hoplite · Post by **Hoplite** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:26 pm

From Chicken Laws:

http://home.centurytel.net/thecitychick ... nlaws.html
Pittsburgh, PA. "Fowl at large” are not permitted in unenclosed areas, other peoples' property, or public lands. Also, “no more than 5 pets per household" city limit and animal nuisance prohibitions as well.
You can keep an unlimited number of chickens (no roosters) in NYC. Go figure

S · Post by S » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:59 pm

#1 Would be my first choice with a possibility of #2. If we got a couple EREers together doing #1, perhaps we could start a community garden together.

mikeBOS · Post by **mikeBOS** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:13 am

Albuquerque doesn't have much a reputation, but having lived there for a bit, I think it could be an ok ERE city. Low real estate prices, amazing bus system makes it enjoyable to live car-free, plus commuter rail up to Santa Fe and the Amtrak line from LA to Chicago passes through, plus there's cheap bus service to Denver. A relatively temperate climate makes it possible to bike/walk/scooter year round (a couple snow flurries in January and 100 degree dry heat in July at worst). There's also a great library system, a thriving art community and the massive University of New Mexico with all its corresponding museums, free events and free sporting events. It's next to lots of mountain hiking/skiing space. It's culture is unique with a heavy Mexican influence.
If you have kids there's one big plus: Anyone who graduates from a New Mexico High School can go to any of the state schools/universities for 4 years for free. The state covers tuition for everyone.
Downsides: it's hot in July, no lakes/ocean to swim/boat in, long-term future water shortages likely, no world class museums or concert halls and its pretty isolated, it's not like you can take a 3-hour trip to a visit another big city like you can on the coasts, have to be able to appreciate the endless desert.
Not that I'd relocate again. New England works well for me

jeremymday · Post by **jeremymday** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:23 am

Here is a great article of exactly what "city limits" mean, how east coast cities don't have as much urban sprawl, etc, etc...
http://pittsburgh.about.com/od/facts/f/how_big.htm
Very interesting to think about.

Eliza · Post by **Eliza** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:13 pm

I'm a city girl at heart...sounds like for a variety of reasons most of you prefer small towns/more rural existences.
Although, I could go in for a college town since they usually have access to interesting cultural events and decent public transportation. I've often considered State College, PA as a retirement possibility.

jzt83 · Post by **jzt83** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:00 pm

Eugene Oregon.
- Cheap real estate (median price is $220k and dropping) 1 acre of land can be had for around $100k. Check out Redfin.com

- University of Oregon is in the city.

- non-fluoridated tap water and overall good water quality

- located next to the Willamette river

- abundance of local, fresh, and organic food.

- Mild weather.

- Superb year-round gardening. Land is very fertile.

- Bicycle, pedestrian and public transit friendly

- Liberal and well-educated population

- Mild year-round weather and rarely snows. 8 months of overcast skies may be a drag for some though.

- Low-crime

- has an Amtrak station
What about Humboldt County, Ca; Chico, Ca; or Detroit?

jzt83 · Post by **jzt83** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:12 pm

Consider Spokane Washington as well. Ran Prieur lives there and owns a large plot of land about 1 hour north of the city. He doesn't live on the land full-time, but uses the land to plant stuff and only visits periodically in the warmer months. He also recently bought a house in the city of Spokane for $72,000, and you read about his experience of house hunting here:

http://ranprieur.com/me/house.html.
He also has a land blog with photos and videos: http://ranprieur.com/land.html

Post by **jacob** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:42 pm

I looked at what health insurance would cost me in Eugene, OR and I had to do a double take: The cheapest plan is $50/month with the next one at $64/month.
I'm currently paying $95/month (California) and the New Hampshire plans I was randomly looking at were $150.

Post by **jacob** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:47 pm

Actually we could take a trip up to Eugene in 10 days or so. What should we be looking for? The good areas? The bad areas? The shops? Stuff that would be relevant if you're living there---not touristy stuff.

jzt83 · Post by **jzt83** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:31 pm

To be honest, I've never been to Eugene. It just seems like a city that fits much of the criteria for an ERE city, at least on paper.
If you ever visit Spokane, Ran Prieur would be more than willing to show you around. You could even help work on his land and stay in his new house.

Post by **jacob** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:44 pm

Not here!

Post by **jacob** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:51 pm

Corvallis, OR?
Eugene looks to be the grass pollen capital of the US. I'm sorry to say this would be a dealbreaker for me.

George the original one · Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:53 pm

Corvallis - area between downtown and the OSU campus. North side of town is where the last 30-40 years of suburban growth has gone. Philomath, about 5-10 miles to the west, is where the affordable property is and there's a paved bike path into Corvallis. Character is a little less hippy than Eugene-Springfield and it's a smaller city.
Budgeting for a roundtrip from Eugene with time to look is about 3 hours.
While you're headed to Eugene, you should also swing through Cottage Grove, about 10-15 miles south of Eugene, just off I-5. Avoid the lumber mill at the south end of Cottage Grove.

Post by **jacob** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:26 pm

Portland, OR.
* all the cool kids live here

* affordable on ERE budget, single family housing under 100k

* airport

* rain/green country

* river/ocean access

* climate change is favorable to this region

* health insurance is affordable, 35yo male = $50/month

JohnnyH · Post by **JohnnyH** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:46 pm

I really like Oregon, but for me the state's up to 11% income tax (9% starts at a paltry $7750) is unacceptably high.
Also, the property taxes are very high. Unlike the examples from Florida and Nevada, taxes in Oregon are marching up while sale/asking prices collapse.

sethwmiller · Post by **sethwmiller** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:52 pm

I know I was the one who suggested Corvallis to you but I was going to also mention the Oregon tax situation. Since they don't have a sales tax it seems like the state revenue system wouldn't be ideal (though I don't really know think there is a perfect system).

George the original one · Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:51 pm

Oregon's income tax is high, but you have to be earning a bunch more than I do to get into the 11% bracket. Most everyone falls into the 9% bracket (after counting the exemptions).
Property tax increases are capped at 3% per year in Oregon unless a local bond measure boosts it. Own your home for a few years and you'll find that you are being taxed at less than market value rates.
I've found property taxes are generally comparable to Washington state's property tax. Portland (inside the city limits) is higher to pay for the extra services available. Property taxes are no where near as high as Pennsylvania or Virginia.
Examples of property taxes:
my former 1300 sq ft home in Milwaukie (between Portland and Oregon City) was a mere 20 minutes from downtown Portland and the property taxes on it are currently $2,167 per year.
my current 1800 sq ft rural home on 1 acre (40 minutes to downtown Portland) has property taxes of $2,718 per year.
my friend's beautiful vintage 2900 sq ft house in the desireable Ladd's Addition neighborhood of Portland has property taxes of $5,457 per year.
So the moral is to pick your location and curb the desire for big homes to keep the property taxes in check.

JohnnyH · Post by **JohnnyH** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:29 am

@George: thanks for the info. Q: what is the 3% based on? I'm guessing some bureaucratic value... [From the rental property thread] It seems some states (NV, FL) base their taxes on actual market behavior. And they actually go down! I'm guessing most states don't.
I'm in MT where the taxes are certainly not decided by market action and are notoriously difficult to appeal. I recently attended an auction out of curiosity. The 03 taxes were 3.8k. In 08 they were adjusted to 8.5k(!) with a "market value" of 2.5 million... The house was for sale for 2 years, with an ending asking price of 800k (still no takers). It ended up going at auction for 400k. I wonder to what extent high, inelastic taxes are pushing prices lower.
I digress, but my point is I am worried about states where listing/sales prices decline by 25-50% (WA/OR/MT) and property taxes only go up somehow... What was done in MT via the difference of 1 assessment made some houses almost a liability and destroyed several markets.

George the original one · Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:47 am

@JohnnyH - Initial assessed value = sales price when you purchase. Each year after that, then assessed value increases by what the county needs, but no more than 3%. Property improvements, basically anything requiring a building permit, will increase your assessed value by the value of the work. Bond measures (parks, schools, transportation, fire, & police are the popular ones) can cause increases above the 3% rate, but the community approves those in an election.
Thus as a homeowner, it is quite possible to have a market price that is well above assessed value. For instance, I purchased my house for $221k seven years ago and I added a $30k workshop a few years ago and the assessed value is $188k while the market value is $300k... it's going to take a bigger housing market crash before my house is below the assessed value!
[late edit: there's a maximum assessed value that's tied to the property's value back in 1997 which is another reason my assessed value is below market value. New property doesn't get that benefit, but they still have the 3% increase cap.]
The current dirty political trick in Portland (and presumably other towns) is to spend the city budget on desireable frills and then ask the voters to approve a levy needed for fire stations because the politicians know that a levy for the frills would not have passed. Our voters haven't seemed to catch on yet and aren't asking why the fire department budget didn't already include the station...