ERE City (US)

How to avoid signing your life over to a mortgage
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jennypenny
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Post by jennypenny » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:12 pm

A close friend and I met to work on a school project this morning. We got to talking about retirement and I said we were looking at NH. She said "really, I used to live in Seabrook."
So, here's what she said...

She liked living in that area, but about half of Seabrook is very industrial. I mentioned that we were looking for low RE taxes and she said that with services and the nuclear plant "they practically pay you to live there." After I described some of the criteria discussed here, she thought that for 2x the money you got 10x more in Portsmouth. She also liked a small town just inside the mass border (newberry?--I'll have to ask her again) that she said had the qualities we were looking for. I mentioned Hampton and Hampton Lakes but she said if she were going to spend more than Seabrook she thought it was best (for the money) to live near Portsmouth.
Just FYI...


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:24 pm

I'm not sure I mind half of the area being very industrial, as long as it's not the half I live in.
What does "10x more" mean with respect to Portsmouth? 10x the granite countertops, 10x the land, etc.?


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jennypenny
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Post by jennypenny » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:34 pm

I mentioned college towns and she said that Portsmouth reminded her of that. She said it had the kind of downtown and waterfront that provided a lot of entertainment, and was the kind of place that you could just walk around without having to spend money or make plans to have fun.
I also think the fact that she lived in Seabrook is an indication that it's a decent town. She's one of my more grounded friends in Stepford, and I can't picture her living somewhere without it meeting certain standards.


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tylerrr
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Post by tylerrr » Mon May 14, 2012 5:21 am

was there a consensus here on any cities states?
I'm moving to Boston soon and New Hampshire is appealing to me for the future. I am looking at buying a little land there.


LonerMatt
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Post by LonerMatt » Mon May 14, 2012 10:08 am

I would definitely consider a spell of a few years in ERE city.


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Post by jacob » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:24 pm

In the 6 months, we've been living in Chicago, we've met up with 3 (soon 4) ERE people. It seems like there are many more whereas in the east bay area it was always hard to gather people, e.g. the nearest was 15 miles away, the second nearest was 30 miles away, etc.
This suggests that maybe it's easier to establish ERE city where there's already some density.
Chicago pros:

Many ERE people are already living here.

Affordable housing (compared to CA, OR, and NJ).

Very good public transportation (car free is easy).

Very good strategic location (climate change and peak oil)

Coastal incomes but Midwest prices.

The city does, as far as I know, not have any restrictions on backyard chicken coops.
Chicago cons:

Crime can be an issue (certain areas are like Detroit minor) and a driver of real estate prices. E.g the same house would cost $40000 in a gang-ridden area and $160,000 in a prime (safe) area. Conversely, gentrification does happen with artsy people buying up "iffy" neighborhoods. It might only require a massive concerted effort.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:21 pm

Cons: weather? I still have to check out Chicago in person


secretwealth
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Post by secretwealth » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:59 pm

Chicago is a beautiful city but it doesn't exactly scream ERE friendly to me. I love NYC but I'd say it isn't great for ERE either.
I've always thought ERE is more rural than urban. It isn't too easy to subsidize your income with a lot of crops in a crowded city.


Laura Ingalls
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Post by Laura Ingalls » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:22 am

I'll throw out a couple of other suggestions
I personally don't care about the airport thing. While I also love to walk/bike and have used the public transportation available to me wherever I have lived in the past I guess going car free it not a high priority. I can live life I enjoy more in a more rural setting even if it means more time in the car.
I second Ralphy's vote of Decorah, IA and if you are going to consider it you should also consider it less collegiate cousin of Virquoa, WI.
I also think Brookings, SD has promise too. I actually visited on my way from DeSmet, SD (yes-for real-Little House fans)to points south. Neat college town feel, cheap (low housing prices, low property taxes about 1% of property value, no state income tax)
While I know less about it than others


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:59 am

Not sure if I mentioned it, but a big problem I have with some of the suggestions is a big criteria for me:
Racial diversity / acceptance / general non-ignorance
Many of the "best places to live" lists look great until I realize I'd be one of the few non-white people there. Even if people aren't outright racist, even subtle bias can kill it for me.


jzt83
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Post by jzt83 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:56 am

What's the heating costs of such a cold place?


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jennypenny
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Post by jennypenny » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:44 pm

@dragoncar--That's tough to find. (sad, really) Half of the reason we pay for private schooling for our kids is to have them in a diverse environment. Stepford is definitely not diverse, and was a real shock after living in Philly for 10+ years. We are very aware of this issue as we look at colleges for DD. We think college towns probably have the best chance at being ERE-friendly and diverse.
We were in Halifax a couple of weeks ago. I would definitely add that to a list of potential ERE cities. Small but big, if that makes sense. Economy is booming. Not very diverse though. Seemed like an extension of New England. For that reason, I think I still prefer Vancouver.
re: Chicago

They're not too fond of the 2nd amendment, and that's tough if hunting is part of your ERE plans.


jacob
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Post by jacob » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:09 pm

@dragoncar - From 50,000ft Chicago is extremely racially segregated. Most neighborhoods will have a very sharp division from one to the other, i.e. one side of the street will be all black, the other side will be all Hispanic and the third will be all white.
http://www.radicalcartography.net/index ... hicagodots
However, looking closely at the map, there are some areas where the dots spill into each other. E.g. north coast and west of the city.
I don't know how it looks like on the ground level.
Weather-wise, well, it depends ... when I think of weather, I'm more concerned with vegetation/can stuff be grown without irrigation/green houses than whether it's comfortable. For instance, San Diego is very comfortable but there's no natural water so nothing grows naturally there. The Midwest is acceptably comfortable (the weather won't kill you) and things grow here.


secretwealth
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Post by secretwealth » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:27 pm

Sadly, I just don't think there is an ideal ERE city because there are so many requirements that are currently mutually exclusive:
* A lot of farmable land

* Racially/socially diverse population

* Well-educated population

* Good public transport

* Low taxes

* Affordable healthcare options

* High population density
I just can't imagine any place fitting the bill.


secretwealth
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Post by secretwealth » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:27 pm

Sadly, I just don't think there is an ideal ERE city because there are so many requirements that are currently mutually exclusive:
* A lot of farmable land

* Racially/socially diverse population

* Well-educated population

* Good public transport

* Low taxes

* Affordable healthcare options

* High population density
I just can't imagine any place fitting the bill.


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dot_com_vet
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Post by dot_com_vet » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:45 am

Another reason I like Chicago - It's a major Amtrak hub.
I love train travel! From Chicago, Boston or NY is just one overnight trip away. Coach isn't dirt cheap, but it's not expensive either. You can bring your own food/drinks too.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:18 pm

Nevermind, I'm never going to Chicago

image upload

DW
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Post by DW » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:22 pm

@Dragoncar, That must be a highrise issue, I actually find we have a lot less insects and spiders here than we did in East Bay. For on street level racial diversity, like Jacob said there are definitely specific neighborhoods and you do see they generally go along with the violence and gang activity, but if you walk down the streets in the good neighborhoods (we live in Ravenswood), I see people of all races and ethnicity here, I love it. That said, I am not all that comfortable waiting for the bus in Uptown (next neighborhood over) at 9:30 with the obvious drug deals going on 40 feet away, I feel way to small town white girl, but I am adjusting


cimorene12
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Post by cimorene12 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:23 am

I'd like to suggest another option for the ERE city. I read secretwealth's list:

1) A lot of farmable land

2) Racially/socially diverse population

3) Well-educated population

4) Good public transport

5) Low taxes

6) Affordable healthcare options

7) High population density

and I realized that the city which I live in now would probably fit the bill. I go to Indiana University Bloomington. Bloomington is one of the top 25 places to retire: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/rea ... ag/17.html. It has a cost of living below the national average (93 vs 100).
1) It's basically surrounded by farms. It has enough corn, soy, and cows to satisfy any aspiring farmer. There are orchards, too.
2) It has a racially/socially diverse population due to the university. We have a pretty big Tibetan presence, for example, because the Dalai Lama's brother used to live in Bloomington. The Dalai Lama comes to speak in Bloomington now and again because of the connection. There's a street with a wide variety of ethnic restaurants which range from Ethiopian to Turkish. No one is going to stick out too much just because of skin color.
3) The population is educated in this area because of the university. The professors and their kids make up a pretty significant portion of the town.
4) I wouldn't call the public transportation superb, since it almost never runs on schedule, but you can get around without a car. I did for two years. There's a bus system: http://www.bloomingtontransit.com/System_Map_Aug_2011. There is also a bus that runs between Bloomington and the Indianapolis airport. It costs $15 and takes 1.5 hours: http://www.bloomingtonshuttle.com/. Bloomington has been putting together pedestrian and bike routes for a few years now. It's not uncommon for people to use bikes for transportation. http://bloomington.in.gov/media/media/a ... pdf/57.pdf
5) I'm not sure what qualifies as low taxes, but Indiana has a lower rate than CA. Indiana's rate is 3.4%.
6) The healthcare is affordable here. It helps that IU Health is here. IU Med is one of the nation's best medical schools and they have a branch in Bloomington.
7) There's high population density around the IU campus and it's walkable. But if you get even a few miles out, there are farms. Lake Monroe would provide recreational value and it's completely possible to walk to Griffy Lake from campus, even though it's a pretty lengthy hike.
Speaking of recreation, there is a lot to do at IU. One of the best things about going to IU is how many performances there are. A lot of the events done by Jacobs, the second largest music school in the nation, are free: http://music.indiana.edu/events/.
There's fresh, local, organic, affordable food at Bloomingfoods: http://www.bloomingfoods.coop/index.php ... Itemid=127. A very quick rundown of what Bloomington has to offer, especially for anyone who is vegetarian or vegan [guilty], is here: http://prime.peta.org/2010/08/bloomingt ... ightenment.
The average house value is $168,600. The climate is classified as mixed - humid and we have the same climate as northern Georgia. http://www.architecture.uwaterloo.ca/fa ... egies.html


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Post by LiquidSapphire » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:27 pm

All right, ya’ll, I am going to posit the following as the/one of the ERE Cities in the US. Longmont, Colorado.
Pros:

1) I live there!

2) MMM lives here!

3) The climate is quite temperate (over 105 in summer is rare, under 0 in winter is rare). A swamp cooler will do just fine unless you require sub 75 temps in the summer. We paid up to $80 in natural gas to heat our 1000 sq ft home in the dead of winter one month last year for indoor temps in the low to high 60s. Solar power is viable. 300 sunny days/year.

4) Craigslist is active (boulder.craigslist.org) and an even more active one is closeby (denver.craigslist.org). Freecycle is active.

5) Skiing within an hour’s drive. Private buses go there too.

6) Income tax = ¼ of your federal tax liability. Therefore, zero/low federal tax = zero/low Colorado tax.

7) University of Colorado, Boulder is 20 miles away and accessible via bus. This is our largest university in the state.

8) If you're a cyclist, they are EVERYWHERE, I see them all the time.

9) Nice homes are available for $100K-$125K.

10) Lots of open space/farm land outside of city limits.

11) You can see the mountains from the city and they are beautiful! Lots to do there as well, hiking, camping, mountain biking, etc.

12) Denver is a 45 min drive away and has pretty much all the big city life one could expect.

13) You can have chickens in city limits!

14) Fort Collins is 45 min the other way and has Colorado State University.

15) Couple great microbreweries here (Oskar Blues, Pumphouse, Lefthand)

16) Denver International Airport is a huge airport and it takes about 45 min to drive there.

17) Property tax is very very low (a little over 1% of value for us)
Neutral:

1) Public transportation is usable but not great intercity. It runs on time generally. Longmont itself is small enough that you could probably bike everywhere. They are building up light rail big time but it is going to take a few years and it is not scheduled to reach Longmont. I take the bus lots of places now intercity. The buses have bike racks and “under the bus” bike storage. It is possible but it takes a long time if you are going somewhere in Denver that is not downtown or near a major stop. On the other hand, you can be downtown in almost the time it takes to drive there, and that is where the sporting events/museums are. It's not that cheap though intercity... basically $4-5 one way. rtd-denver.com is the public transport site.

2) Denver is a huge economy and Boulder is somewhat of a high-tech hub, both have jobs. Longmont being small-ish, we have some large companies here but not a ton. Job luck will be very industry dependent in Longmont.

3) It's "diverse" in that we have a large hispanic population (30%?) but I don't honestly see many cultures represented beyond that.
Cons:

1) Sales tax is sort of high. 8-9% depending where you go.

2) Insurance is required for cars, mopeds, motorcycles.

3) Not much water around here... we have some reservoirs for water sports, etc but that's about it.

4) It is very dry here, single digit humidity is not uncommon. Weather wise it's a great plus but gardening wise... you will be paying for water to water your garden. It is illegal to collect rain water. (I know, it's wrong, but... there you are.)

5) Pretty much nooo night life... but you can go to Boulder for that.

6) No really "cheap" grocery stores like Aldi, Grocery Outlet... you have Kroger and Safeway as your main choices. There's a Save-a-lot but that didn't impress me much. Boulder has Whole Foods (couple of them) and Lafayette has Sunflower Market (similar). Boulder is very hip/granola-y kinda town and you can find a lot of uniqueness there (but it is extremely expensive to live there). Also a lot of wealth lives there so you can find a lot of high-end activities in Boulder like fancy pants restaurants, etc, but there is not much of that in Longmont (we have maybe 2 or 3 restaurants that I would really consider "gourmet" or "really really nice")

7) If you can garden here year-round I am not aware of it; you are pretty much done with gardening after October and generally cannot pick it up again until March for only the hardiest plants and May for most other plants.


dragoncar
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Post by dragoncar » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:18 am

Colorado sounds great to me. I don't know anyone there. Will you be my friend? Can I come live with you? Can we go to the zoo? :-p
Lots of water stored in the mountain snow, right?
Lol@fancy pants restaurants. I live next to a restaurant where you can expect to spend over $100 for a meal, NOT including wine. I go there never. I feel like the one time a year I might actually go somewhere expensive, I can travel there and make it an event.


secretwealth
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Post by secretwealth » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:36 pm

Pretty good argument for Bloomington IMO. The university there isn't as well known as it should be--it consistently ranks high in rankings for several fields. Close farmland and low property values are big appeals too. The only problem I can foresee is high heating costs in the winter.


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jennypenny
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Post by jennypenny » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:18 pm

This is good to read. IU Bloomington is at the top of DD's list of colleges right now. The only thing I don't like is that it's landlocked.


LiquidSapphire
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Post by LiquidSapphire » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:38 pm

@dragoncar- Between our 4 pets and the two of us there isn't room for another soul :) But you can buy/rent some place nearby and we could be neighbors and best best friends and hang out all the time!
That is the primary water source - mountain run off, from the snow that they get in the winter. Last year we hardly got any snow so we have drought conditions. Drought conditions seem to occur more often than not.
Here are the two fancy pants places in Longmont I know of - maybe not so fancy pants by your standards since leaving with a bill of <$100 for two might be possible!

http://www.terroir-restaurant.com/

http://www.sugarbeetrestaurant.com/


cimorene12
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Post by cimorene12 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:26 am

@secretwealth - Indiana has fairly low heating costs. Mr. Money Mustache lives in Longmont, Colorado and he uses 299 kWh per month at a cost of $450 annually. If you round that up to 300 kWh per month, that would cost you $444 per year in Bloomington. The cheapest type of heating system costs $0.06 per kWh. Even if you calculate that Bloomington has slightly harsher weather than Longmont, the heating costs are still pretty affordable.

http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana/savi ... -costs.asp

http://www.duke-energy.com/pdfs/BTUperYR_South_Nov.pdf
I apologize for not being able to provide actual numbers for my heating bills; I live on campus in an apartment which bundles utilities and includes them in the total cost. My friends who have 2 bedroom apartments off campus pay approximately $300 per person per month for housing and $50 per person for utilities during the winter.


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