ERE City (US)

How to avoid signing your life over to a mortgage
Papers of Indenture
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Papers of Indenture » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:17 am

Maybe of some interest here

http://www.openworldvillages.org/

JL13
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby JL13 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:15 pm

Time to revive this idea in light of Flint, MI water crisis? Zillow indicates we could buy an entire subdivision for $100,000. Build some rainwater catchment systems and we're golden!

zarathustra
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby zarathustra » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:04 pm

Not opposed to this idea.

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C40
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby C40 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:43 pm

But, it's Michigan.... Maybe I'd stop by for some summers :-)

JL13
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby JL13 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:13 pm

For the price, we can all just spend summers there!

jacob
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby jacob » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:43 pm

http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/02/free- ... s-its-time

The Free State Project has reached its goal of 20000 people. The idea, which started in 2004, was to pledge to move to NH if enough pledges were collected. I guess we'll see what happens now.

Maybe something similar is required to actually get to the point of "ERE City" albeit probably with a much lower number.

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vexed87
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby vexed87 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:31 am

If I were not tied by loved ones and pesky immigration laws, I'd be there in a heart beat! Perhaps the libertarian minded folk won't mind harbouring like-minded illegal aliens?

JL13
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby JL13 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:19 am

@Vexed. It's not a problem. We can set it up so everyone in the ERE city will be married to each other. So you'll can get a green card!

Wait, in which states is polygamy allowed?

enigmaT120
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby enigmaT120 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:48 pm

JL13 wrote:@Vexed. It's not a problem. We can set it up so everyone in the ERE city will be married to each other. So you'll can get a green card!

Wait, in which states is polygamy allowed?


Ha. None, yet. But according to the folks who oppose gay marriage, it's inevitable now.

leeholsen
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby leeholsen » Sun May 15, 2016 1:25 pm

I looked for somewhere else to put this but did not see a place; so I put it here as I have been designating Manchester, NH as my ERE city and it was initially one of the primary ERE cities.

I was looking at commutting to Boston from Manchester just in case my finances in ERE took a header and I needed to get a job again and Boston would have the better job market and it is 55 miles one way; so I was going to look into boston housing until I checked the state tax rates and NH is zero while MA is 6.25%.

So I did the math and it would actually be cheaper to live in NH and commute(if you do not include the commutting time as a cost) than live in Boston with any income over around 25K as if you have a 50MPG prius and commuted 48 weeks a year on $3 per gallon; your year costs would be about $1500 which is what you would pay in takes at 6.25%. and it would be also cheaper to live in NH at 40k and cummte if gas was $5; something it has never reached in the usa.

I just found it interesting.

workathome
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby workathome » Sun May 15, 2016 6:48 pm

How about we pool resources a buy a submarine? FREEDOM!!

Lucky C
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Lucky C » Sun May 15, 2016 8:00 pm

@leeholsen
6.25% is the MA sales tax, not income tax, which is not very important if your goal is ERE and therefore you are minimizing things you purchase (note: food and clothes are still tax free in MA). For a big purchase though, you could always drive to NH to buy it if you lived in MA, and then "forget" to put it on your MA tax return (you are supposed to report it but I think most people just don't).

If you are talking about income tax, that is 5.1% in MA. If you work in MA and live in NH, you still pay income tax on your MA income. You get hit with the tax either way.

NH real estate taxes are generally higher than MA, depends on the town but generally you'd be paying an extra 1% in NH vs. MA.

In NH, you still pay taxes on dividends and interest income.

So by my math, MA is actually superior than NH for ERE in terms of taxes, mainly due to the higher NH real estate tax. NH just gets the reputation of being superior to MA for taxes, because for most people who work until they're old (assuming they work in NH) and have a high spending rate, that is certainly the case.

Certain parts of CT or RI could potentially result in even lower taxes than MA for ERE folks, despite those states also getting bad tax reputations based on the common way of living.

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Chris
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Chris » Sun May 15, 2016 11:36 pm

Lucky C wrote:@leeholsen
So by my math, MA is actually superior than NH for ERE in terms of taxes, mainly due to the higher NH real estate tax.


I think it's highly specific to a person's income plan and living situation. If you're pulling in investment income as capital gains, NH's dividend and interest tax won't bother you. And the first $2400 of div/int income is exempted. So if you're following a total-return approach and selling off shares for income, or maybe you're in muni bonds, or other investments generating cap gains income (mutual funds, timber REITs), NH would work well from a tax perspective.

As far as RE tax, that depends on where you live. The difference in rent/property prices may outweigh the difference in RE tax. Comparing Manchester to Worcester, you could probably find equal or cheaper apartments in Manchester. But out in the sticks, I'd expect prices to be similar.

In my opinion, commuting from NH to Boston is brutal. During rush hour, 55 miles != 1 hour of driving. Not sure what you're specialty is lee, but the job market in NH is pretty good: unemployment rate at 2.6%.

leeholsen
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby leeholsen » Mon May 16, 2016 8:31 am

Chris wrote:
Lucky C wrote:@leeholsen
So by my math, MA is actually superior than NH for ERE in terms of taxes, mainly due to the higher NH real estate tax.


I think it's highly specific to a person's income plan and living situation. If you're pulling in investment income as capital gains, NH's dividend and interest tax won't bother you. And the first $2400 of div/int income is exempted. So if you're following a total-return approach and selling off shares for income, or maybe you're in muni bonds, or other investments generating cap gains income (mutual funds, timber REITs), NH would work well from a tax perspective.

As far as RE tax, that depends on where you live. The difference in rent/property prices may outweigh the difference in RE tax. Comparing Manchester to Worcester, you could probably find equal or cheaper apartments in Manchester. But out in the sticks, I'd expect prices to be similar.

In my opinion, commuting from NH to Boston is brutal. During rush hour, 55 miles != 1 hour of driving. Not sure what you're specialty is lee, but the job market in NH is pretty good: unemployment rate at 2.6%.


yes, i cede the point to you that 55 miles into metro Boston isnt going to be an hour, i was just posting on the point of how a state's taxes can be percieved.

and i did not even include the cost of housing. which looks to be 30% higher in MA.

if you could get to boston to work from NH within an hour, it would be worth it imo; if you had a job available that you did not in NH.

JamesR
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby JamesR » Mon May 16, 2016 11:44 am

Why is it every time I hear "ERE City" I think of Slab City? First saw it on the 'Into The Wild', it's an EREr's wet-dream.

P.S. That's good news about the Free State Project, it's time for libertarians to begin their exodus to the promised land!

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tylerrr
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby tylerrr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:44 pm

leeholsen wrote:I looked for somewhere else to put this but did not see a place; so I put it here as I have been designating Manchester, NH as my ERE city and it was initially one of the primary ERE cities.

I was looking at commutting to Boston from Manchester just in case my finances in ERE took a header and I needed to get a job again and Boston would have the better job market and it is 55 miles one way; so I was going to look into boston housing until I checked the state tax rates and NH is zero while MA is 6.25%.

So I did the math and it would actually be cheaper to live in NH and commute(if you do not include the commutting time as a cost) than live in Boston with any income over around 25K as if you have a 50MPG prius and commuted 48 weeks a year on $3 per gallon; your year costs would be about $1500 which is what you would pay in takes at 6.25%. and it would be also cheaper to live in NH at 40k and cummte if gas was $5; something it has never reached in the usa.

I just found it interesting.


I agree with Lucky that commuting to Boston would be brutal. The emotional/stress cost of commuting should be factored in that equation in addition to money.

I live in Boston(Cambridge) and the car traffic is awful. The roads are terrible with constant construction. I bike and walk mostly to local places for work, errands, etc.

NH is known to have very high real estate taxes if you're buying a house there....It seems that renting a place and working within NH would be your best ideal to maximize your dollar. Portsmouth, NH is an area that I like a lot.

Allagash
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Allagash » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:37 pm

I read through this whole thread and can't believe Maine hasn't been mentioned. In terms of New England that would be my pick over NH in a heartbeat. They have an income tax but property taxes are much lower, and income taxes not bad if keep income low. House prices are low in ME (outside of Portland and Southern Coastal ME), rent is low, huge amount of beautiful natural lakes, tons of rugged coastline, tons of quaint towns with colonial architecture (some towns dating back to early 1600's), university towns, nice mountains inland, drop dead gorgeous falls. Freezing cold & LONG winter though + lots of snow, but a lot more winter sunshine than the dark and gloomy but mild Pacific Northwest winters. May 15th-late Oct is a slice of heaven in Maine (or Vermont my 2nd fav NE state). No big cities in ME, mostly small or mid sized town living. I was not a big fan of Portland ME (my least favorite and most expensive part of the state but the biggest city).

Some of the great legends of frugality were and are Maine residents (for good reason!)....Jim Merkel author of "Radical Simplicty", Amy Dacyczyn's author of "Tightwad Gazette", and THE original back to the land-ers Scott and Helen Nearing author of "The Good Life".

I hear WA State mentioned here a lot. I live north of Seattle right now. This is a great place to live for many reasons (mountains, lakes, forests, islands, salt water, NO income tax, temperate climate, low electricity costs, low heating costs, NO cooling costs) BUT it is exploding in growth. Seattle is becoming SF Bay Area 2.0. very quickly. And home prices and rents are skyrocketing in the Seattle metro (and they are getting high in Vancouver, Bellingham, Tacoma, Olympia, Everett too). Traffic is brutal from Everett to Olympia. The state added 500,000 people in the last 5 years (Maine hasn't added 500k people in the last 70 yrs!). There are rural areas that are lower cost, but towns like Centralia, Aberdeen, etc... have a fairly economically depressed feel, not much to do, with few numbers of educated people.

One of the nice things about some other areas of the U.S. (midwest, rust belt, northeast) like Maine, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, etc... is precisely that they are NOT growing in population or changing so much. After living in CA for 25 yrs and Seattle area for 4 I am TIRED of the exploding growth, brutal traffic, skyrocketing rents and housing prices.

I like Oregon but the income tax is a deal killer and house prices are not super cheap either (Maine is cheaper). OR is also growing pretty fast. And OR income tax is not on a sliding scale like places like ME and VT. OR you pay 9% even if you make $30k a year AGI. In VT and ME taxation % rate falls the less money you make both income and property tax (VT) (use this site to estimate your tax burden....http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/).

I haven't been but Buffalo and Pittsburgh seem interesting due to low cost of housing, Pitt has a nice hilly topography than many Midwest places don't have, lots of colleges to bring life to area. I have not been to Cleveland or Milwaukee either but I'm curious because of cheap housing + access to amenities of those cities.

South Dakota has a GREAT combination of no state income tax, low house prices, and low property taxes. That is a combo that is very hard to find (except maybe WY). Perhaps the college towns of Vermillon SD or Brookings SD (I have not been). Rapid City SD has more sun and the black hills are nice, but its pretty isolated and have not heard a lot of good things about it.

Laura Ingalls
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Laura Ingalls » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:30 pm

I proposed Brookings upthread. My friend that lives there calls it a bit of liberal MN in SD. Vermilion is pretty small maybe 10,000. Neither win any awards as the prettiest.

Rapid is still pretty far from the prettiest parts of the Hills. Its a better RV summer location.

unno2002
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby unno2002 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:03 am

The philosophy of getting like-minded individuals into the same area has come up many times. Relatively recent was the free state project which “voted” to get independent minded folks to move to New Hampshire.

Acting on our own, on retirement we moved to the city of Tucson, Arizona. “Great” for independent minded retirees, no. Ok, yes. Services are here. If you keep to yourself, you are left alone. In the right home, your heat/cooling costs are not bad. It rains, enough that if collected it can provide for a modest garden. Regarding firearms Arizona essentially respects the US Constitution.

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Chris
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Chris » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:16 am

MMM's newest post decries the problems of suburbia. Nestled in the middle if the post:

One of my life goals is that we – quite literally you and me – build a city like this here in the USA.


Interesting. Perhaps the ideal ERE City is yet to be built.


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