ERE City (US)

How to avoid signing your life over to a mortgage
seanbrenna
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby seanbrenna » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:34 pm

i am planning a move from massachusetts to greenville, sc... its a growing city with low real estate prices... nice and warm. my sister is there so that has influenced my decision.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby jacob » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:51 pm

@vivacious - There's been plenty of nomination (this is a huge thread) but little consensus. There's even a wiki page http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... e=ERE_City

What's needed is a way to aggregate the data better and provide a sales pitch for each place that includes things like cost of living ERE style, likelihood of finding ERE friendlies (given that we're not all going to move there at once), and things to do (work/not-work), ... basically the ERE perspective on the place.

Preference would be given to post-earning money since that phase lasts far longer.

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JohnnyH
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby JohnnyH » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:29 pm

I'm almost leaning towards 2 dwellings; a country homestead and a city condo/appt... Seems like most on here want something in between but I'm not sure that is extreme enough for me. :|

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby vivacious » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:37 pm

Ya that sounds kind of fun. If you have the money then why not I guess. And you could rent out 1 of them when you're not in it or something.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby jacob » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:40 pm

@JohnnyH - What kind of time split do you have in mind? 6 months here 6 months there? Weekend getaway?

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby KevinW » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:30 pm

@JohnnyH - What are your thoughts on keeping the places maintained and secure while you're not there? And how would you travel between them in an ERE way? I like the two-house idea but the nitty gritty logistics are a turn-off.

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JohnnyH
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby JohnnyH » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:36 am

@jacob: I think it follows the introvert/extrovert split... 80% of the time I am happy being an introvert out in the country. 20% of the time I like being an extrovert out on the town... So I guess it would probably be a weekend or 1 week a month thing (better use of transportation time/costs), and likely accomplished less expensively with other arrangements.

@KevinW: Yes, it might be too impractical. I imagine the city appt would have no lawn to maintain, be in a building that takes care of most maintenance and very low carrying costs... Travel likely just drive car 60-100 miles once a month, or ride bike + trailer... Or bus/train if available. Perhaps even hitchhike.

I like European hut culture... Just my ideal one would be in reverse (city cottage, country home).
_____
I've been thinking more and more about the value of having multiple households on one property... Say 2-3 siblings and their mates and children. Would definitely speed up wealth accumulation of the unit.

With other people/families present, you could easily leave without having to worry about security, upkeep, bills/utilities not being utilized.

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Dragline
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Dragline » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:26 am

There is another living "strategy" that I know some traditional retirees have adopted, which is to plan to live somewhere for a few years, exhaust what value/interest you have in that location, and then move on. It's kind of half way between settling down and living in an r.v. This is usually a renting strategy -- its not worth owning something if you are only going to be there a few years.

susswein
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby susswein » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:37 pm

One way to support such a two-home system (that I've been considering) is to pick locations that have high vacation-rental income during specific seasons, and live in them during the off-season. An example of this would be to buy one property in a ski resort town, rent it out throughout the ski season, and live in it during the other 7 months of the year (spend summer in the mountains). For the other property, pick something that has high rental income during the summer vacation season (maybe a beach house in the south or something near disneyworld?)

seanbrenna
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby seanbrenna » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:53 pm

@susswein... that is an excellent idea

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Chad
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Chad » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Dragline wrote:There is another living "strategy" that I know some traditional retirees have adopted, which is to plan to live somewhere for a few years, exhaust what value/interest you have in that location, and then move on. It's kind of half way between settling down and living in an r.v. This is usually a renting strategy -- its not worth owning something if you are only going to be there a few years.


Similar too what I would like to do at the beginning of my ERE "retirement." I'm interested in hitting a whole bunch of places for 3 months or so at a time (Eugene OR, Portland ME, Burlington VT, Key West, etc.). Then selecting one of them to be kind of permanent.

Plus, maybe knock off a 3-4 months stint in NYC. No way I'm living there permanently, but I would enjoy the experience for a little while.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby FreeyourShackles » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:01 am

I great idea to help all in the city would be creating self-sufficient renewable energy automated systems for all the basic needs. This could pull the helpful intelligent ERE'ers who wanted to volunteer into a giant ThinkTank of endless possibilities to improve their city's lives.

For energy needs, A big example is Masdar City for a fully self-sufficient with renewable energy city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masdar_City

For food needs, a small example is the prefab Greenhouse + Ardunio Controls Buildings. http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/10/11/2334239/prefab-greenhouse--ardunio-controls--automated-agriculture-video

In the Discovery Channel's The Colony, a self-sufficiency without currency post-apocalyptic experiment demonstrated how 10 people could survive and build an ERE village in less than 16 weeks out of old junk and nature.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Spartan_Warrior » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:30 am

The problem is ERE isn't any one lifestyle, so it's hard to bring people together. For me, ERE City is so passe. My ideal would be more of a Village or Colony. A small, completely self-sufficient perma-culture/simple living outpost on a large plot of isolated, rural land in some temperate area of the world. Solar panels, simple drinking wells, hunting, gathering, farming, fishing and aquaculture. Preferably close enough to civilization to get an internet connection and cell phone reception, and access to emergency services as needed, but far enough (and large enough of a plot) to form an isolated culture or "country within a country", similar to the Amish, but secular, modern, and come and go as you please.

I see it as something like a holding company or LLC, or the original London Company of Virginia, where the initial "founders" parcel out "shares" in the form of subplots of land. Everyone could develop their plot of land however they please. Yurts, tents, log cabins, tiny homes, mobile homes, underground homes ala Mike Oehler (http://www.undergroundhousing.com/), all accepted. McMansions accepted too if you want but you might raise some eyebrows!

Residency could be full-time or seasonal. Personally, I'd just want a home base in between my travels. Some folks might want to hold a "city home" to get their fix of action-packed city-slicker hustle and bustle.

As the land is improved, and the community grows, and self-sufficiency increases, membership in the community would also increase in value, so the initial founders could realize a profit by selling out portions of the land to new shareholders at an appreciated value. Alternately, they could rent parts of their land to interested parties. There could be a type of rent-to-own structure built on the classic employment structure of "indentured servitude" in which potential ERErs lacking the funds to buy into the ERE neighborhood could agree to work for 5 years on the land. :P

Of course the work wouldn't only be simple and self-sustaining (although that work would be available for those who want it). Once we have that more or less automated, we would devote our minds to bettering ourselves and mankind, as well as producing a profit (further increasing the value of "shares" in the ERE Company). We could develop software, invent new products and patents, become a think-tank, create and conduct an ERE college in classic philosophical style, or get a reality TV show gig.

The possibilities are limitless! In my head, anyway.

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theanimal
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby theanimal » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:00 pm

+1 Spartan
I sure do like the sound of that! My view of an ERE "city" is very similar.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby workathome » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:33 pm

I'm considering moving to Traverse City (https://www.google.com/search?q=traverse+city&tbm=isch). It has a nice balance of wants for me.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby jacob » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:24 pm

A commune is substantially more ambitious than what I have in mind. I simply figured that an ERE city would make ERE meetups, teaching, tool borrowing, support, etc.---simple things---much easier. Maybe if we ever decide on a city (or several), such communes could be built in the vicinity. The style than best fit into existing regulations would likely be an RV park since it allows people to move in and out very easily.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Freedom_2018 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:13 pm

How about the "human nature" aspect of such a venture?

Given that people are people, how to prevent issues like "I am more ERE than you" type of keeping up with the Joneses?
Does someone who have a slightly higher level of consumption be looked down upon by his neighbors? What is someone is not as mechanically adept, would he/she feel marginalized in such a community? Would someone who is more outgoing and friendly feel unwelcome (have to wonder about this after my trip to Seattle area)? What would be the dominant social mores? Would the INTJs start getting on the case of the INTPs for being too laid back and lazy and not showing up to the meetings on time? What about religious vs non-religious orientations etc? There are many many variables here....more complex than weather prediction.

I think FI/ERE mindset might be a necessary but not sufficient condition for such a venture to take hold. Or maybe it can be done by some people at a smaller scale...i.e. folks who would have gotten along anyways and FI/ERE is the icing on the cake.

Maybe ERE city is more feasible as a virtual concept...like through this blog/forum?

Sorry...don't mean to be Debbie Downer but have had some life experiences.

sshawnn
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Re:

Postby sshawnn » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:55 am

lee1988 wrote:Wilmington, NC: very nice weather, high quality beaches, cheap rents, University feel (could be good or bad), about 1.5 hours away from Triangle Research Park


I just returned from Wilmington. My sister lives there and I spent a few days visiting with she and her husband. Although they live in Wilmington proper, I spent time in Carolina Beach and Kure Beach. I enjoyed the mild (at least not harsh) winter conditions, the expansive interesting coast line made up of islands and rivers, and the lack of crowds. My sister reports that June-August is NOT a pleasant time to be there with the many tourists but September-May is very nice.

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jennypenny
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Re: Re:

Postby jennypenny » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:30 am

sshawnn wrote: I spent time in Carolina Beach and Kure Beach. I enjoyed the mild (at least not harsh) winter conditions, the expansive interesting coast line made up of islands and rivers, and the lack of crowds. My sister reports that June-August is NOT a pleasant time to be there with the many tourists but September-May is very nice.

That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. It just means you could rent out your place during that time for income and travel someplace else that's nicer in the summer. If you were willing to go to someplace off-season during that time, it wouldn't be cost-prohibitive. Places like Whistler are beautiful in the summer. If you can stand the weather, there are cheap but nice carribean rentals during the summer, or just sail.

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Re: Re:

Postby sshawnn » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:52 am

jennypenny wrote:
sshawnn wrote: I spent time in Carolina Beach and Kure Beach. I enjoyed the mild (at least not harsh) winter conditions, the expansive interesting coast line made up of islands and rivers, and the lack of crowds. My sister reports that June-August is NOT a pleasant time to be there with the many tourists but September-May is very nice.

That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. It just means you could rent out your place during that time for income and travel someplace else that's nicer in the summer. If you were willing to go to someplace off-season during that time, it wouldn't be cost-prohibitive. Places like Whistler are beautiful in the summer. If you can stand the weather, there are cheap but nice carribean rentals during the summer, or just sail.


Right on! I talked with my sister about her buying a "vacation" property and possibly paying for it with the proceeds from rentals, June-August. They are not at a place where not working is an option so they could work a second seasonal job, and camp*, homeshare with friends, etc while prospering from their place.

I thought of the options you mentioned, specifically blue water cruising during those brutal :lol: summer months.

The winter weather while I was there was high in the 40s-50s but 70s are not uncommon. There is PLENTY of available outdoor offseason activity there!

* http://www.nccoastalreserve.net/Resourc ... d/205.aspx

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby jacob » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:02 am


Explorer
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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Explorer » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:53 am

Probably not the right thread since it's meant for an US ERE city, however -->

http://www.ecosia.org/search?q=sicilian ... don=chrome

An interesting ERE opportunity (if it wasn't for the geographical location, immigrants, climate (?) etc.)
On the bright side though, it would be easy to get enough people to occupy the city :)

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby SimpleLife » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:12 am

jacob wrote:
vivacious wrote:I would posit many small, west coast places as fairly good for ERE. Specifically within an hour or 2 from a city. The prices are MUCH lower at that point. You could go into the main city sometimes also.


I've been looking [obsessively] at Washington (state) lately, particularly in the Puget Sound area. There are many [declining] lumber/fishing towns (Aberdeen, Centralia, Bremerton), where dilapidated houses can be had for $20,000 paying $400/year in RE taxes. A decent house (nonfixer) can be had for $50,000/$600 and a large one for $75,000/$800. In short, housing can be ridiculously cheap. The crime stats are kinda iffy but not as bad as Chicago.

If you don't mind the tsunami bottleneck risk, then Ocean Shores was/is a developed retirement community where 4 season vacation homes can be had for around $110,000/$1200 or so.

Artsy/touristy places like Port Townsend and Anacortes start around $150,000/$1600 or so (lowest I've seen was around $60k but that didn't look too good). That's what I'm looking at, namely for the added entertainment value. I've also looked at Union, WA. Bill Gates has a house there. That's about as far away as you can get from anything in Puget Sound.

There are also rural opportunities. You can get 10a for $175,000 with a small house in the middle of nowhere.

TL;DR - Washington state is currently my favorite state due to: decent RE prices, low RE taxes, no income tax, no excessive winter heating costs, long growth season, fresh water from the sky, lots of nature.



Curious what made you pick Chicago over Aberdeen. I have been looking at houses (on Zillow) recently and find that the houses in the 60-70K range are decent, low taxes, etc. The tsunami risk is what I also found. Also open to other cities with reasonable commutes to Seattle/Redmond.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby jacob » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:25 am

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/updat ... house.html

Equally importantly, it wasn't a choice made in a vacuum. In 2014 there were reasons for us to stay here. Not so many reasons to restart something in Aberdeen.

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Re: ERE City (US)

Postby Slevin » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:16 am

Explorer wrote:Probably not the right thread since it's meant for an US ERE city, however -->

http://www.ecosia.org/search?q=sicilian ... don=chrome

An interesting ERE opportunity (if it wasn't for the geographical location, immigrants, climate (?) etc.)
On the bright side though, it would be easy to get enough people to occupy the city :)


I actually like the idea sitting behind here (and in Jacob's earlier post). Why not use the already set up infrastructure of a mostly empty town with plummeting/ nonexistent housing prices? The houses will definitely need repairs to be done on them, but this invites a beautiful amount of community involvement and sharing in terms of having community tool libraries, sharing labor, and could theoretically grow the community into a tight-knit group. The repairs that need done could also be done in a high-quality and sustainable fashion. And in parallel with the construction efforts could be efforts with restoring the land around them. Community gardens, food forests, etc. could become mature(ish) right when the houses finish being repaired.

Ideally I would also vote for this to be more of a "city" rather than a "commune" where maybe a sizeable chunk of the population is FI/RE instead of a community built solely on the ideas that we have. It would also be nice if there was a small tourist population, as then they could see the way we are living and how much we have repaired the ecosystem and created a very comfortable livelihood for ourselves, and then maybe they would want to join too ;).


Other considerations:
It seems like this theory/idea would leverage a large amount of initial resource dump followed by long term payoff in terms of return on housing and food supply. It also needs some sort of long term "desirability" for others to keep the resale values of property up (hopefully real cost of ownership <$0 due to all the improvements we have made on both the individual properties and landscape as well as the ecosystem of the towns).

As others have mentioned it needs to be somewhat close to a more major city to facilitate other types of interaction that would need to occur on a smaller scale (obtaining necessary outside resources).

Side Note:
In the end I think this may be too much of a pipe dream. In trying to bound a large group (50 or so at least) to some sort of collective checklist, we would have to impose and compromise far on wants more than many individuals would be comfortable with. Thus there is really no incentive on the individual level to move to this ERE city (unless it is a large improvement over their current situation).


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