Moving to Amsterdam

[MuDraconis]

What ho, everybody!
First of all I would like to thank Jacob and this amazing community for the sheer amount of useful knowledge provided over the years.

And is exactly upon my fellow EREs that I'm counting on in this moment of 'need'.
As the title of this post suggests I'm moving to Amsterdam for a new job that is starting in January.

As we all know, keeping housing costs down is one of the keys to reach F.I. in a short time and, being the money concious guy that I am, you can image my horror when, looking on the Internet for apartment / rooms for rent in that fine city, I encountered really high prices.
A minimum of 900 euro / month for an apartment outside the city center and not very cheap rooms either (500-600 euro / month), most of which posted by scammers...

So, here is my plead: does any of you have, or knows someone who has, an affordable room / apartment to rent in Amsterdam?
Of course it doesn't have to be in the city center but, in order to keep my transportation costs down and be able to bike everywhere I'd like it to be inside the city boundaries. Preferably in the western side since it'd me closer to the office.
Ideally I'd need it for the whole year.
Unfortunately though, I won't be able to be in Amsterdam before the 7th or 8th of January so, at least for now, my research is limited to the digital realm.

The job should also involve a fair amount of travel (on average one week per month).
Furthermore I don't own a lot of things so my space requirements are fairly limited.

About me: I'm a 29 y.o. Italian working in the I.T. field. Fluent in English, passable Spanish and looking forward to learn Dutch (or at least try to! ;-P).

Thanks for any information you might be able to provide and even if you don't have any accomodation solution to my quest feel free to leave any advice you might deem useful about Life, the Universe and Everything.

Daniele

[rube]

Even though travel expenses would increase, you might leave the option open to stay outside Amsterdam.

[MuDraconis]

@billsbill: thanks, I already knew about the site and I'm monitoring it to see if something interesting comes up.

@rube: it's something I'd rather avoid because I don't want to own a car and taking the public trasport every day would probably cost more, don't you think?

[rube]

It is quit normal in the Netherlands that the employer pays (part) of the cost to commute. Maybe you should check it out.
If you need some help to check prices for commuting by public transport, send me a PM.

Just to get an idea: if I would commute 3 weeks every month to Amsterdam it would cost me about 250 euro (that is with at a 'discount card' I buy every year). But I live about 70 km away from Amsterdam which is pretty far. You should be able to find something much closer and perhaps your employer will pay some of it. That would expand your searching area a lot.

[MuDraconis]

@rube: indeed, the employer will reimburse me for part of the commute costs but, still, I'd like to be closer to the city center.
The discount card you're talking about is the OV-chipkaart?

[rube]

For discount options for trains, check this (sorry can't find English page on my phone, use Google translate)
www.ns.nl/reizigers/producten/abonnementen

An OV chipkaart you will need anyway (unless you travel only 1 or 2 times the whole period).

[MuDraconis]

@rube: thanks!

[MuDraconis]

@rube: may I use your knowledge a little more?
What mobile phone operator would you recommend?
Do you know of any whose roaming costs throughout Europe are not prohibitive?

Thanks again.

[rube]

The EU have set a maximum cost for calls, sms, data while roaming. I don't think if there is much difference between providers (that use lower fees than those maximums set by the EU).

But the cheapest way is probably to just buy a local sim and call abroad using specific numbers, like a prefix before calling the number abroad (see for example m.televergelijk.nl).
Then you'll pay for calling local the normal fee* and additional only 1 cpm for a land line to Italy and 4 cpm to a mobile.

*local fee is depending provider and contract or prepaid. What is the best (cheapest), is depending on how much you expect to call.

Personally I don't call a lot and I I do (for work) I often use Skype.

[MuDraconis]

@rube: buying a local sim as soon as I get there was my plan too, thanks.
I was actually thinking about data traffic while out and about in the city since, at least in the beginning, I will heavily rely on the navigator to find the places I will have to get to.

[rube]

For data you also have different plans. But you can also buy a no-data navigation program. I saw recently Sygic with holiday discount. For Netherlands and Belgium it was 20 euro. I bought worldwide myself for only 40 euro.

[Maia_Sue]

Amsterdam is normally quite expensive to live in, but if you're not picky you might consider "anti-kraaK'
This means that you rent a building that would be otherwise empty, the owner doesnt want the building to be emty because of squatters. Therefor you can rent it, its mostly (a lot) cheaper then normal housing. Allthough you do have different rights, for instance the lease can be ended in a 30 day period, so its less sure.

I found one thats quite intresting:
http://nl.cameloteurope.com/?id=151&lev ... =Amsterdam
Here you have a small studio 25m2, with own kitchen, shower and toilet in a building with several older people. You could live here for about 2 years. Its in the center of Amsterdam for € 370,- per month, thats not too bad I think.

If you look for the term "anti-kraaK" you might find several other sites, its mostly used by "alternative" people (like hippies )


About the phone, i allways used: https://www.simyo.nl/
At the moment i dont live in the Netherlands anymore, but i really liked this provider.

About the transportation, the "ov-chipkaart" is like a bankcard on with you can put money to travel. You can alsow put a subscription on there to get a discount. Several diffrent subscriptions you can find here:
http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/producten/abonnementen/ ( for trains)
http://www.gvb.nl/service_en_verkoop/re ... rting.aspx ( for bus, metro and tram)
It can be quite a puzzle to find out if a subscription is of use for you, youll have to do the math.
If you need help ill be happ to lend you an online hand

I have no experience with living in Amsterdam, but i was born and raised in the Netherlands so i do know a lot about living there. I hope this helps you

[MuDraconis]

@Maia_Sue: first of all thank you very much for your very interesting suggestions.

Amsterdam is normally quite expensive to live in, but if you're not picky you might consider "anti-kraaK'
This means that you rent a building that would be otherwise empty, the owner doesnt want the building to be emty because of squatters. Therefor you can rent it, its mostly (a lot) cheaper then normal housing. Allthough you do have different rights, for instance the lease can be ended in a 30 day period, so its less sure.

I found one thats quite intresting:
http://nl.cameloteurope.com/?id=151&lev ... =Amsterdam
Here you have a small studio 25m2, with own kitchen, shower and toilet in a building with several older people. You could live here for about 2 years. Its in the center of Amsterdam for € 370,- per month, thats not too bad I think.

If you look for the term "anti-kraaK" you might find several other sites, its mostly used by "alternative" people (like hippies )

That's a very good price!
I didn't know about this "anti-kraaK" arrangement: I'll surely look for more information about it.
Do you have any kind of experience with this form of rent?
For example, the one you suggested seem to include a fair deal of 'support' for the elderly living in the complex.
Do you think it's a strict requirement? Because my job will involve a fair amount of travel...

About the phone, i allways used: https://www.simyo.nl/
At the moment i dont live in the Netherlands anymore, but i really liked this provider.

It seems quite competitive compared to the 'big names'.

About the transportation, the "ov-chipkaart" is like a bankcard on with you can put money to travel. You can alsow put a subscription on there to get a discount. Several diffrent subscriptions you can find here:
http://www.ns.nl/reizigers/producten/abonnementen/ ( for trains)
http://www.gvb.nl/service_en_verkoop/re ... rting.aspx ( for bus, metro and tram)
It can be quite a puzzle to find out if a subscription is of use for you, youll have to do the math.
If you need help ill be happ to lend you an online hand

Yes, the situation will be more clear once I find a place to live, from there I'll be able to compute which of the various subscriptions is better depending on where and how often I'll have to take the public transport.

I have no experience with living in Amsterdam, but i was born and raised in the Netherlands so i do know a lot about living there. I hope this helps you

Thanks again.
If I may be a little bit curious: where are you living now and what made you leave your country?

[henrik]

Simyo is a virtual operator, meaning they don't have their own network but have made arrangements to use someone else's. I used Simyo in Germany for a while a few years ago, it worked great and was the cheapest one around at the time.

[Maia_Sue]

I used to live "anti-kraaK" for a while, u have less certanties but the rules really depend on the situation. I lived in buildings that where actually not really for living and had a blast. I lived in a old military base, where i had a whole building to myself. I had like 10 showers and 10 toilets there After that i lived in a strange builing ment to store salt for the roads, i lived in the office joint to that building. Its really cheap, i know of people who got paid to live somewhere. But it allways requires you to be somewhat adventurous and flexible.
Therefor you best contact the renter in this case. About the support, it could mean a lot of things. Maybe they mean you help them with grocerie shopping by picking up what they need when you go, it could be helping someone learning how to work with a pc, or cooking something extra to share. Im not really sure. I do know that these kind of arrangements are mostly very social and flexible, if youre willing to help then there willing to mind youre scedule.

Something that may be usefull that i forgot earlier, if you consider getting a Dutch bank account i would suggest you never pay more then about € 1,- per month.
You could choose ASN Bank witch i also still have, you get a small percentage of intrest on your money in payment account, its an internet bank so you cant deposit money somewhere but you can withdrawl at every atm in the Netherlands and europe without extra costs. They allsow have a service number without costs, which i find a real plus. I hate to pay (a lot) to call a company where i am a costumer. http://www.asnbank.nl/particulier/betalen.html - The account is now free till 2016
Another option is ing bank, I used to be costumer here https://www.ing.nl/particulier/betalen/ ... et-product. They are a big Dutch bank, though i would prefer the ASN but thats mostly based on feelings and experience.


About 1,5 year ago me and my SO moved to Germany, we bought a property there. Its an partly renovated old farm with about 6000m2 ground around it. We have chickens, a vegetable garden, solar panels and a little forrest for wood to burn. The houses here are very cheep compared to the Netherlands we paid only € 100.000,- where we would have paid € 500.000,- in Holland. We intend to make the house as energy-efficient as possible while paying it of, we expect to have the house payed of in 8 years. The COL are a lot cheaper in Germany as well, most of the foods and drinks, fuel for car, taxes for car, medical insurance, electricity and gas, and most of the taxes on property are (a lot) cheaper in Germany. We where told that our income would be lower here as well, but i actually make the same or a bit more here. My SO is making a little bit less, but will make more in the coming years.
All and all we are very happy here, we love the realexed and very nice people here, we love living in the country and its a real bonus that the COL are so low here. Were living our dream

[MuDraconis]

Simyo is a virtual operator, meaning they don't have their own network but have made arrangements to use someone else's. I used Simyo in Germany for a while a few years ago, it worked great and was the cheapest one around at the time.

I noticed they rely on KPN's network in the Netherlands.
Do you know if you can use your data plan abroad or if they apply some roaming surcharges?

I used to live "anti-kraaK" for a while, u have less certanties but the rules really depend on the situation. I lived in buildings that where actually not really for living and had a blast. I lived in a old military base, where i had a whole building to myself. I had like 10 showers and 10 toilets there After that i lived in a strange builing ment to store salt for the roads, i lived in the office joint to that building. Its really cheap, i know of people who got paid to live somewhere. But it allways requires you to be somewhat adventurous and flexible.

This sounds very fun indeed!

Therefor you best contact the renter in this case. About the support, it could mean a lot of things. Maybe they mean you help them with grocerie shopping by picking up what they need when you go, it could be helping someone learning how to work with a pc, or cooking something extra to share. Im not really sure. I do know that these kind of arrangements are mostly very social and flexible, if youre willing to help then there willing to mind youre scedule.

I'll surely contact them and ask for more information, thanks again.

Something that may be usefull that i forgot earlier, if you consider getting a Dutch bank account i would suggest you never pay more then about € 1,- per month.

It seems like you are required to have a Dutch bank account if you want to work in the Netherlands...

You could choose ASN Bank witch i also still have, you get a small percentage of intrest on your money in payment account, its an internet bank so you cant deposit money somewhere but you can withdrawl at every atm in the Netherlands and europe without extra costs. They allsow have a service number without costs, which i find a real plus. I hate to pay (a lot) to call a company where i am a costumer. http://www.asnbank.nl/particulier/betalen.html - The account is now free till 2016
Another option is ing bank, I used to be costumer here https://www.ing.nl/particulier/betalen/ ... et-product. They are a big Dutch bank, though i would prefer the ASN but thats mostly based on feelings and experience.

Thanks: I was considering both ING and Rabobank because they were the only ones I knew about but ASN seems very interesting.

About 1,5 year ago me and my SO moved to Germany, we bought a property there. Its an partly renovated old farm with about 6000m2 ground around it. We have chickens, a vegetable garden, solar panels and a little forrest for wood to burn. The houses here are very cheep compared to the Netherlands we paid only € 100.000,- where we would have paid € 500.000,- in Holland. We intend to make the house as energy-efficient as possible while paying it of, we expect to have the house payed of in 8 years. The COL are a lot cheaper in Germany as well, most of the foods and drinks, fuel for car, taxes for car, medical insurance, electricity and gas, and most of the taxes on property are (a lot) cheaper in Germany. We where told that our income would be lower here as well, but i actually make the same or a bit more here. My SO is making a little bit less, but will make more in the coming years.
All and all we are very happy here, we love the realexed and very nice people here, we love living in the country and its a real bonus that the COL are so low here. Were living our dream

Congratulations!
It looks like a really well thought project.
You probably already know about this but, just in case, have you heard about Pit / Walipini Greenhouses: http://www.inspirationgreen.com/pit-greenhouses.html ?
It could help your vegetable garden to combat the harsh germanic winters and yield useful produce all year.
Also, if I had that much land and were looking to be as self-reliant as possible, I'd build myself an aquaponic system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics).

[Maia_Sue]

I assume they charge some roaming surcharges, but i am not sure as i never use data

Ive been custumer with the Rabobank for years when I was younger, but I think they are too expensive. And then when I wanted to do my banking digitally and they asked for even more money I just left them. There are plenty of banks in the Netherlands that deliver the same services for less

I love your links! We defenitly want a greenhouse, a model like the one you linked could be very usefull. Ive seen some like that one youtube but this site is very nice and usefull. We are very in to permaculture and low maintenance gardens. I personally dont know enough about aquaponics but find it very intresting, the only think is that we both dont eat fish (you do this with fish right?) but my SO thinks it might be an idea to sell fish and make some money of it


Another point that comes to mind is the health insurance.
In the Netherlands you pay about 7% out of your income to the state for health insurance, but you also have to get a contract with a insurance company. They offer all a standardised "basispaket" for diffrent prices and if you need to you can take an extra insurence for things like dental care or physical therapy. The first € 375,- ( mandatory "eigen risico") that you use up youll have to pay yourself, this is for the "basis paket" and does not include trips to a general practitioner.If you are never (or not much) ill you can take a voluntarily "eigen risico". This can get you a big discount, but in case of high costs youll have to pay more yourself.

I was very often with the insuranse company Anderzorg. (http://www.anderzorg.nl/)
Because i didnt have to many trips to the doctor and/or medical cost i took a maximum voluntarily "eigen risico" of € 500,-. And payed for a year in advance wich gave me 3% discount. I didnt need any extra insurance and made sure to set aside the mandatory and voluntarily "eigen risico" money of a total of ( € 375,- + € 500,-) = € 875,- in case of an medical emergency.
Total costs per month:
€ 93,- Normal monthly cost
€ 27,- discount for maximum voluntarily "eigen risico" of € 500,-
€ 66,- per month
€ 792,- per year
€ 768,24 per year after 3% discount for paying in full = € 64.02 averege cost per month after all discounts

As far as i can see is Anderzorg still the cheapest one, ive never had any trouble with this company.
I could scan the bills on there site and have my money back in a few days. Mostly they payed directly to the healtcare provider.

If you are not very healthy or are in need of special help or medication this may not be the best solution for you.
Comparing healthinsurances can be a pain.

Dental care insurance makes only sense if you expect something special to be wrong with youre teeth. A normal check up will cost u about € 20,-
I normally didn't pay more than € 100,- in dentist bills but insurence will cost you about € 10,- per month and then you only get like75-80% insured. So you really gotta watch out for that. If you need help just ask

[MuDraconis]

I assume they charge some roaming surcharges, but i am not sure as i never use data

I find it harder and harder to avoid using data: be it for the occasional thing to look up on the Internet while out and about, the indications to get to a certain place or simply as a mean to keep in touch with my family in another country.

Ive been custumer with the Rabobank for years when I was younger, but I think they are too expensive. And then when I wanted to do my banking digitally and they asked for even more money I just left them. There are plenty of banks in the Netherlands that deliver the same services for less

And that's one of the main reasons we're here, right?
To obtain above-average service with below-average prices .

I love your links! We defenitly want a greenhouse, a model like the one you linked could be very usefull. Ive seen some like that one youtube but this site is very nice and usefull. We are very in to permaculture and low maintenance gardens. I personally dont know enough about aquaponics but find it very intresting, the only think is that we both dont eat fish (you do this with fish right?) but my SO thinks it might be an idea to sell fish and make some money of it

The partially underground greenhouse should be very useful when it comes to maintaining your plants at a high enough temperature even if the external conditions are not very suitable.
About aquaponics: yes, you do it with fish but you don't have to eat it if you don't want to. You could, as your SO said, sell it, or simply keep it in the loop for the nutrient function it has upon the plants.
It's a really interesting system that I'd like to build myself if I had the place.
Here are some more articles about it:
- one by the ever entertaining Mr. Money Mustache: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/10/20/aquaponics/ ;
- some more general information: http://aquaponics-system.com/ ;
- and a DIY approach that uses Arduino boards to monitor the status of the system: http://apduino.com/ .

About fish: you and your SO don't eat it because you don't like it, for economic reasons (like cheaper ways to obtain the supplied amount of proteins?) or because of ethical reasons?

Another point that comes to mind is the health insurance.
[...]
If you need help just ask

Once again: thank you very much for your help. You're a treasure trove of useful information!
Fortunately, and here the same disclaimer about investments applies: past performance will not necessarily be replicated in the future, I'm a pretty healthy individual.
So I think I'll take the voluntary 'eigen risico', if they still offer it, and spend as little as possible on health insurance.

[Maia_Sue]

We made use of our move to get rid of our cellphones, we both only have one in case we get stranded and need help. No one else has our number. We only use our home number for others, its very releaxing. We also only have internet at home. To contact our family we use skype a lot, I even call my grandma with skype PC --> Phone. Its very cheap

About the fish, we both dont like the taste. We actually dont eat fish, shellfish or anything like that.
Were eat mostly plantbased, no dairy, very little meat an eggs. Partly for enviroment, partly against animal cruelty and mostly because of our healt.
I belief the theory from Dr. Fuhlner, Dr Esselsteyn and others that animal protein isnt healthy for humans. (but thats a whole other discussion )

Im glad i could help
I know what its like to move do another country

[MuDraconis]

I'm more of a Low Carbs High Fat kind of guy and I think it's very difficult to pursue such a diet eating mostly plants...