Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

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Jack
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Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Jack »

Whatever you may think of the idea... I want to join the French Foreign Legion! I'm geek-ish, and recovering from an illness, so I'm not in optimal physical shape, and there's much to learn—French, to begin with! It's daunting for me, and I've always tackled stuff as they came, without much planning. Please indicate books about project management, time management, goals, etc., anything you think might help and that isn't much corporate focused. Thanks!!!

Riggerjack
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Riggerjack »

Because you wanted to pull guard duty on midden heaps?

As a former soldier, I have to question why the FFL? And why you think books on time management will help.

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fiby41
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by fiby41 »

Time management books are a waste of time.

~Merwin (noone famous, just my friend complaining to me about my reading choice)

Campitor
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Campitor »

@Jack

Have you done any serious research into the French Foreign Legion? There are tons of documentaries about the FFL on youtube. They pride themselves on being an elite group and the training I've seen appears to be similar to the marine corp. You first have to pass a grilling about your past by soldiers and a psychiatrist - a general assessment to see if your physically and mentally fit for the FFL. And if you do get in, they are especially known for some imaginative forms of corporal punishments. One documentary I saw they had a soldier sleep in a cell filled with ankle deep cold water for going AWOL for a day and another soldier was made to cut grass with a small scissor to a precise height for 3 days for neglecting to keep his gear in order. So if this is you desired method to getting into shape and getting organized - have at it. I'm sure you'll be a combat death machine that can run a marathon in extreme weather conditions while lugging a 50 pound pack. And you'll be amazed at how sharp your prioritization and project management skills will get under active combat. :roll:

From wikipedia field punishment:

The French Foreign Legion had its own field punishment. A legionnaire in the 1990s, Gareth Carins witnessed this punishment first-hand. While in training, a recruit called Schuhmann was caught deserting the training camp. Carins in the book Voices of the Foreign Legion: The French Foreign Legion in Its Own Words described how he saw Schuhmann slumped at the bottom of a flag pole: "His wrists had been bound together behind the flag pole, as had his ankles, so that it was impossible to stand up, and he was forced into a sort of kneeling position. I could see blood on the side of his face." In the book Mouthful of Rocks:Through Africa and Corsica in the French Foreign Legion former legionnaire and author Chris Jennings writes that recruits as a form of punishment, had to dig graves in frozen soil, where the man would then spend the night, buried up to his neck.

Jack
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Jack »

@Riggerjack

Because I don't want to guard midden heaps, and I stand a better chance of being sent to combat in the FFL, I have considered alternatives. I thought those books might help me with organizing myself, having a method so I can get the most out of my efforts—not exclusive to this project. Am I wrong?

@Campitor

Yes. I even talked with an old ex-legionnaire who told me horror stories about when there wasn't much concern for human rights there. But you got it wrong, I want to organize and get in shape so I can get into the FFL, not the other way around. That's the guidance I'm looking for here (and elsewhere).

OTCW
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by OTCW »

No comment on your FFL goal or related goals of getting in shape and managing your time, but I will say there are probably better venues to ask for advice on this than the ERE message board.

That's my long way of saying good luck/I have no practical advice on the subject.

Jack
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Jack »

@OTCW

Thanks. I'm pursuing other venues as well. But succeeding in both retiring early and joining the FFL requires planning, discipline, strategy—being efficient—and this forum shines when it comes to efficiency! Military experience is irrelevant—many of you have had to manage bigger projects, and develop more intricate skills, and that stuff translates. This is only one of the projects I want to tackle with what I'm trying to learn here.

Campitor
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Campitor »

Jack wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:17 am
@Campitor

Yes. I even talked with an old ex-legionnaire who told me horror stories about when there wasn't much concern for human rights there. But you got it wrong, I want to organize and get in shape so I can get into the FFL, not the other way around. That's the guidance I'm looking for here (and elsewhere).
A) If your hell bent on joining the FFL then you should look into CrossFit/HIIT training - this type of physically conditioning will probably be the best means of getting ready for a combat filled career. You'll level of commitment to joining the FFL will be proportionate to the willingness and sacrifice you undertake to join a CrossFit gym or hire a CrossFit instructor.

B) Organizational skills are about assessments, focus, and action:

1) Which tasks are essential to accomplishing a project/mission?
2) Which tasks, if ignored, will have little to no effect on the primary mission/goal? Avoid these tasks.
3) What are the best available tools/methods for accomplishing my primary objective?
4) How can I break down my primary tasks into incremental steps so I know where to start and measure progress?
5) When action is required and failure is of little consequence, doing something is preferable to doing nothing so you can fail forward.
6) Focus, Focus, Focus - be in the moment when doing anything of vital importance.
7) Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Think about it.
8) Rinse and repeat 1 through 7 as tasks are accomplished or new tasks revealed.

C) The above can only be learned via "doing" while in a mindful state - preferably with someone critiquing your performance.

D) The FFL will will do A through C for you - so why not skip A through C and just join?

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C40
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by C40 »

Why do you want to enter combat? These days, you don't get shit for winning. The mental downsides are becoming much better understood or at least openly shared. I could see some motivation when you had some slight chance of getting to totally pillage a city. But really, what's in it for you?

BRUTE
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by BRUTE »

+1 CrossFit. even better, 5x/week kickboxing or similar training. being able to sustain physical damage seems like it would be important.

brute has actually toyed with the idea as well, but only post-FIRE. it sometimes seems like a stupid idea for him - apparently it's mostly a way for poor Africans to get French citizenship by doing the French army's dirty work for them with inferior equipment and training.

Campitor
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Campitor »

I also think Jack expects to show up at the FFL "ready" for the FFL. There is no getting ready for FFL or any other elite combat unit. If you show up in shape and mentally ready, it only means the drill instructors will push you harder than everyone else. No one floats through a training cycle of an elite corps. They will push you harder than anything you've experienced because they want to wash you out so whatever is left is the best there is. It's not about the physical toughness but about the mental toughness. Every elite soldier I've ever met and every book I've read on seals, rangers, airborne, etc. say that the mind gives out long before the body does. Jack is hoping to bypass or mitigate the can of whoop-ass the FFL will open up on him - the FFL will make sure that if Jack is ready for "can of whoop-ass" level 1 when he arrives, that they will use "can of whoop-ass" level 5 to train him.

Jack
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Jack »

@Campitor

If I try it now I'll surely be rejected after an expensive trip to France and lose one my 2 chances of applying. I just expect to show up there with a reasonable expectation of passing the physical examination and undergoing training without excessive unnecessary toil. I'm not being a wise guy or anything, but if I thought I could all by myself get "ready" for FFL-level business I doubt I'd have started this thread.

@C40

The same reason some people want to paint, I guess. Let's call it "vocation," and family tradition. (Or regrettable juvenile immaturity).

@BRUTE

You got that right, but I'd say "inferior equipment and superior training."

BRUTE
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by BRUTE »

by the way, where does the idea that the FFL is an "elite unit" come from? the FFL specializes in suffering more than others, a bit like the Marines, but probably on a way different level. brute would consider the SEAL teams or Recon Marines or Green Berets an "elite unit", but the Legion?

suffering more in training != superior training

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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Solvent »

The FFL is really a thing? I'm not into military stuff. I thought it was only holding on as a joke, maybe from the Asterix books.

"They say that men join the foreign legion to forget..."

Today I learned, I guess.

Campitor
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Campitor »

Jack wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:04 pm
@Campitor

If I try it now I'll surely be rejected after an expensive trip to France and lose one my 2 chances of applying. I just expect to show up there with a reasonable expectation of passing the physical examination and undergoing training without excessive unnecessary toil. I'm not being a wise guy or anything, but if I thought I could all by myself get "ready" for FFL-level business I doubt I'd have started this thread.
I completely understand and sympathize with what you're trying to do. You are trying to maximize your chance of FFL acceptance. It's a practical consideration and worthy of execution in order to maximize your chances of getting in.

But once in, no amount of physical training will be sufficient because the FFL's job is to push you past your limits ruthlessly and consistently to determine if you are a quitter or if you have the mental toughness to push past pain. This mental toughness will make the difference between you carrying out your mission or failing with potentially lethal consequence not just for you but the men who depend on you.

This link contains tips from former marines about how to get past boot camp - pay special attention to the guy who talks about being the slowest or fastest: Is it possible to train beforehand such that I would find Marine Corps boot camp easy?

Campitor
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Campitor »

BRUTE wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:08 pm
by the way, where does the idea that the FFL is an "elite unit" come from? the FFL specializes in suffering more than others, a bit like the Marines, but probably on a way different level. brute would consider the SEAL teams or Recon Marines or Green Berets an "elite unit", but the Legion?

suffering more in training != superior training
The FFL is given some of the toughest and crappiest assignments so they are especially ruthless during training to weed out the weak minded. Are they elite as in the tradition of Navy Seals, Delta Force, or Airborne Rangers? No. Are they elite in that they can fight in conditions that would break the average military soldier? Probably so.

Riggerjack
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Riggerjack »

Are they elite in that they can fight in conditions that would break the average military soldier? Probably so.
This is, in technical terms, bullshit. Please don't take offense, there are lots of varieties of bullshit in all branches of military. This is an image created to use as a recruiting tool. Any professional soldier in any professional army is going to have the mental strength to tackle any environment.

Military culture is based in abuse and endurance, and this means elite units get more if both. And this can be a good thing. Wtshtf, you need to know you can push through whatever is in the way. Take a random maintenance company out of the army, put them through seal school, and you will have a seal platoon and some dropouts and casualties. Most of the dropouts will be the ones chosen to drop out by the instructors. (If you don't know what I mean by chosen to drop out, I encourage more research.) My point is knowing how to gut your way through obstacles is going to be covered in basic training of whatever form. Further instruction is a difference of degree, sold as a difference of kind. There is a point of diminishing returns.

FFL is basically the French version of Marines. Light infantry, plus extensive PR. But at least Marines get a better looking dress uniform. Seriously, look at the PR, and show me the difference.

If you are determined to go this route, crossfit is a fine starting point, but honestly, the PT wasn't the hard part of basic for me. It was the soul crushing exhaustion. 16 hours of training, 6.75 days a week, with additional responsibilities to be handled in those precious hours you want to sleep through. For me, it was laundry and 2 separate hours of firewatch.

That's right, train for 16 hours, crash for 1.5, get up and into uniform, stand inspection, clean the barracks for an hour, stand inspection, crash for 2.5 hours, get up and into uniform, stand inspection, clean the barracks for an hour, stand inspection, crash for 0.5 hours, get up and start another training day. 16 more hours of physical training, mixed with long, boring, simple instructions in simple tasks, looking to see who is mentally weak enough to pass out.

I never passed out in class, but I did pass out in drill. Marching in a field, waking up as my face caught the heel of the guy in front of me. That level of exhaustion, every day for 8 weeks. Followed by a relaxing year in advanced school, only working 65 hours a week. No joke, I was pondering with a buddy about the relaxed college like atmosphere when I got to AIT. There were HOURS!!! where were were free to do what we wanted, within limits that were similar to community service restrictions.

That is the training of a maintenance soldier in the US army. I've spoken to plenty of other vets in other services, and the details vary, but it's all the same theme, using the same techniques. Everyone trains as close to death as they can get. By that, I mean, everyone's training schedule runs against the same finite barrier. Every military has an acceptable level of training deaths. US military kills between 1-2k troops per year, most in training accidents. In the first Persian gulf war, we killed 20 guys in training, for every one the enemy killed.

The one thing the scruffy soldiers (FFL, Marines, etc) have going for them is a limited independence. By that, I mean the reason I got out, was I was a cog on a wheel, of a many geared machine. I could be an awesome, sharp, perfect cog, or a lazy, rounded, halfassed cog, and it mattered not at all. I would never be more than a cog. The scruffy soldiers get more indepence of action. More room to improvise, about the level of freedom you give to prison trustees.

So, if you want to go FFL, good luck, have fun, and make the most of it. But, be aware, the diffence between a soldier, an elite soldier, and a scruffy elite soldier (FFL, Marine Recon) is not as big as the recuirters tell you.

Riggerjack
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by Riggerjack »

Take a random maintenance company out of the army, put them through seal school, and you will have a seal platoon and some dropouts and casualties. Most of the dropouts will be the ones chosen to drop out by the instructors. (If you don't know what I mean by chosen to drop out, I encourage more research.)
Well, maybe. The more I think about this, the more I think you would have a squad of seals. You could get a platoon if you caught each at their peak, but a random company would probably have a squad of potential seals in it. To be clear, I would wash out, and there was never a time in my career when I wouldn't have washed out. I just never wanted that, and if you don't have that desire, you will never gut it out.

BTW, campitor, that was an excellent link.

JasonR
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Re: Joining the French Foreign Legion.....

Post by JasonR »

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