Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

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sfchristo
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:02 am
Location: SF Bay Area, USA

Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by sfchristo »

TL;DR: An aging artist worried about having enough money to survive without a day job, found MMM & ERE and realized that he’ll probably be fine with current assets as long as he develops DIY skills to cut costs and continues more personal growth.

Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading this blog and MMM since March 2016 when I first heard about this in the New Yorker. In some ways I’m pretty shy and usually not much of a “joiner” of communities.

Meyers Briggs says I’m an INFP “Mediator” personality. And it’s true, I usually look for ways for people to get along. I admire confrontational people, but I’m not one of them.

At 48 I don’t really know if I belong here. When I was younger I was more frugal by necessity. I eschewed spending money on temporary pleasures, e.g. going out to eat, because I was always saving for CDs or a new musical instrument. So the idea wasn’t really about saving but I always made sure I had some extra cash around.

In school I studied psychology and then classical music. Finished up with a master’s.

I spent a couple years as a financial consultant and broker asst (def did not have the personality one needs to succeed in getting clients and convincing them of what to do).

I moved from Washington, DC to the SF Bay Area.

I got married to a hard working doctor who is also classical organist. I was in a situation at age 31 where within reason I could have virtually anything I wanted and I did some of that (musical keyboard instruments, art supplies, some trips etc). Spent time composing classical music and studying piano/harpsichord.

At 33 I started some private lessons to become an oil painter (other people can decide if I’m an artist. I just love the act of painting and took it seriously). For me there’s nothing like painting, playing the piano, and sometimes composing music. Am at a place with music where people pay me for lessons, I make a small youtube income from some older videos, and at a place with painting where I’ve sold several for upwards for $850. I’m proud of that. I recently decided I’m going to give away most of my paintings, it feels better artistically and I’m fortunate that I can afford it.

But I had these constant nagging background questions of neurotic agony:

I’ve always agonized about money. How would I survive as a musician? :?: And since being married to a supportive man, what am I without a full time job? Am I even a “real person”? Will there be enough money for me to survive off of investments and part time income? Am I fool for not working much (at a job) for the past 18 years? How would I ever explain that huge gap in my resume? Am I squandering time? Shouldn’t I be making a lot more out of my life? And on and on and on.

My strategy had been to just get lost in painting or music and push a lot of these questions to the side. I’d be concerned with artistic matters and growth and not down to earth realities. That escapism worked for a while. Then about 4 years ago our financial consultant said he’d rerun the numbers and found that ours savings would fail in a far number of scenarios. That the answer was to get a full time job for at least 10 years. So I started up again on all the gnawing questions listed above. This stressed me out quite a bit (just exactly what am I qualified to do and do I truly have to go to a cubicle or stand on my feet selling food 40 hrs a week for 10 more years?)

So why ERE? What’s the relevance?
Then this past December I found out how low cost it is to invest using discount brokerages for the trades (the discounts used to not be so steep when I first checked back in the mid 90’s). And I realized our broker had started to push our accounts into yearly fee based ones. I fired the broker and took over the accounts (oh yeah, those two years I spent as a broker at Merrill Lynch were about to come in handy) once I realized the amount of $ he thought I’d need to make at a day job was about the same we’d save by investing the money ourselves. I basically would have been earning money to pay HIS income.

So since December 2015 I’ve taken a much more active role in examining our investments and expenses. I could see a lot of lowing hanging fruit on where to cut back. In March I started reading up on ERE and MMM began to slowly make the changes I’m in the process of making now. Besides the practicalities of cutting the land line, learning to cook a lot more, and so on, the biggest and truly profound changes have all been mental. I realized its far better to cut costs and save than try and earn that money. Our tax bracket ensures that too. Therefore I finally let go of worries about careerism (old ideas like, “But it’s not too late, I could STILL go to law school!” are gone). For me, that was huge.

I also realized that I was clinging to some attitudes that were putting me in a mental box. One of the biggest was the idea that I was entitled to stay in my house for the rest of my life (but wouldn’t have enough income to support the ongoing expenses). Being willing to move was a huge change for me. In fact, the idea of downsizing is very empowering.

DH is amazing man. Still working as a full time doctor at age 87. (not a typo) He’ll work as long as he possibly can. In every couple one is bound to leave earth before the other but in our case, I’m acutely aware that the time is truly limited. It’s a poignant feeling for sure. Financially (income and decisions) he’d always been the senior partner to my junior and now I’m coming of age. My life is very tied up with his and he has some amazing frugal characteristics (he was born the year of the 1929 stock market crash) and in other ways sees no problem with spending pretty decent chunks of money from time to time.

So what I’m looking to do is preserve our wealth/assets, continue with my equiv of a four hour work week (piano teaching, lite medical billing for DH, a small ongoing yearly passive income from YouTube music videos), and gain a lot more skill in DIY areas of my life. It’s like I’ve got the artistic part of “Renaissance man” down but need to grow with the other aspects (not calling repairmen when things break, using up what I have, gardening and lots of other stuff).

I’d already not been working full time all these past 17 years but now I’m in a new place - one where I’ve given myself the mental freedom of not worrying about it (what it looks like to other people, what is does to my self esteem, worries about future $ and all that) because it all drains away from my passion as a painter. The worry had been a constant low level background drain on my spirit and now I’m feeling the freedom instead.

I don’t know if I’ll ever go so far on the Wheaton scale as Jacob and some of the others around here but I see it as a journey. And I’m excited about that. (Health willing) I’m looking forward to much more rich and full second half of life.

In any case, it’s refreshing to see an online community where people stay dignified and steer clear of immature ad hominem attacks. Cheers for you all!

TL;DR: An aging artist worried about having enough money to survive without a day job, found MMM & ERE and realized that he’ll probably be fine with current assets as long as he develops DIY skills to cut costs and continues more personal growth.

FBeyer
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:25 am

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by FBeyer »

FBeyer likes this.
Welcome.

My biggest problems with learning new DIY stuff is the time it takes initially. A lot of construction doesn't pay off in anything but expenses, whereas bread making and cooking becomes second nature quite fast. Plumbing and carpentry is going to take up a lot of time once something needs fixing but I think you might just get used to actually handling tools after a while, which then carries over to other forms of 'manual' work (I've worked construction for 5 years, so I'm several Wheaton levels above most amateurs and have a hard time thinking back to how it felt when I had to cut something with a power saw for the first time).
Over the years, learning how to build and maintain a bicycle and your home WILL pay off, I guarantee it, but in the beginning it's going to suck. And you'll be making mistakes that you get to look at for the next 10 years while the thing you built gets worn down enough to warrant replacing. At that time you won't make the first mistake again, you'll make another one. That one you ALSO get to 'admire' for at least 10 more years... :)

sfchristo
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:02 am
Location: SF Bay Area, USA

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by sfchristo »

Thanks, FBeyer.
I'm comfortable around some basic tools (table saws, miter saws, staining furniture etc) but I haven't done too much with them besides making frames for paintings, staining wood, and super simple basics (i.e. hammering nails, installing simple shelves in closets). So I'm looking forward to getting a lot more experience with trying to fix things when they go wrong.
When I realized how much $ I could save by cooking and freezing and that the food was often better than what I got eating out, I started cooking a lot more. This has been for about the last six month.
Have no idea how to maintain my bike. That'll all be new. But I've got the time and when I'm in a place where I'm not painting, I'm sort of drifting mentally so it'll actually be a double win to start some projects the require new skills.
I used to be hesitant to do very much around the house because of what you said about having to live with it for 10 years. :) Thinking of the house as an investment that is too nice for me to mess up is something that's held me back. The house has appreciated in a bubble (twice and luckily has not backed down very much) and it's become a lopsided asset - as in too much of my net worth is tied up in it unless I eventually rent it out or get a bunch of room mates down the road.

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Sclass
Posts: 2805
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:15 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by Sclass »

Welcome. Thank you for sharing that interesting story.

Great that you could reduce your investing costs. I hate that industry. Most of the people in it are salaried workers and cannot make a profitable trade by themselves. The last few years have been great for low cost robo advisers.

I've been very successful saving money with DIY. If you get really brave with some YouTube how tos you can short circuit repairmen who offer to replace stuff that can be fixed cheaply. This can add up fast. I'm not talking patching drywall (I just learned that this fall on YouTube and did it for the first time). This year I repaired rather than replaced an electric range, a hot water heater, a French door, and walked the associated repairmen out after being quoted big replacement bills. I did it all with cheap parts and little prior knowledge of how these items actually worked. YouTube and some guts. I figured the worst that would happen is I'd fail and have to have the repairman come back and haul away the pile of parts.

If you want to fix bikes you're in the right place. This summer I got a temperamental derailleur working with help from people here. I'd never been been able to get one of those working before.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to figure out why my mom's furnace won't heat. Hope it's something easy like a clogged dust filter.

Good luck. You inspired me to dust off my Kenneth Gilbert CDs.

halfmoon
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by halfmoon »

Greetings, sfchristo!

Your story struck a chord with me, and I appreciate that you shared it. Preparing for change without fear is a great accomplishment.

Without knowing the details, it sounds to me as though eventually selling the house is a good idea. This should give you a great deal of financial and location freedom. Having roommates sometimes works out, but I advise against renting the entire house if you aren't going to live there. This can easily degrade a high-value property, and you'll eventually lose the personal residence capital gains exclusion you would otherwise have on sale.

The best-case scenario is to have your husband with you for a while yet, of course. I hope that you're able to talk with your DH about the future and be sure that all legal/financial/medical details have been addressed.

sfchristo
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:02 am
Location: SF Bay Area, USA

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by sfchristo »

@Sclass, Congratulations on your DIY achievements. I've been doing some simple things such as patching a bit of wall that I gouged, and trying to get an eletric front gate to latch again (it currently stays fixed for a day or two and freezes up again). I'll check out youtube and see if anyone has put up a how-to. Over the years we've paid out a lot of $ to contractors to keep our wonderful but rotting victorian up to snuff and so that's one place where I'm really looking to grow now.
Kenneth Gilbert: The very first CD I ever bought was his Bach two and three voice inventions on a huge instrument tuned down low (whole step?) That really created a harpsichord craving for me. :)

sfchristo
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:02 am
Location: SF Bay Area, USA

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by sfchristo »

Hello Halfmoon! I have been reading your story with interest.

Selling the house: yeah, around here (San Francisco) you can currently make a lot of money renting out rooms on airbnb etc. So that's an idea for the future. But having so much of my future net worth tied into one property makes me a bit nervous. I'm thinking I would sell the house and buy one for 1/2 the price in another bay area city (with a lower cost of living, even moving to Berkeley would instantly effectively increase my net worth by a few percent just because everything is less expensive (gas and so on) or the desert in the south. Then invest the rest of the $ for income. That would cut the need for roommates or rentals. If I sold the current house but held off on the new smaller house it would also let me indulge in a fantasy I have of spending a year as a vagabond/doing some travel unrestrained by time like driving slowly cross country.

DH: Thanks for your concern. Years ago before we could legally marry, we went to a tax/estate attorney and got a lot of the issues sowed up. But being able to be married has been great for all those aspects (e.g. the house can be passed on to me without triggering a property tax reasesment) and the attorney was unable to work around a few issues that marriage made no problem.

What I'm figuring to do is to learn to live on a lot less $, see what I have left when that fateful time comes when DH is no longer with me, and then (subtracting the value of whatever place I'm living in) realize that I should only live off of 3% a year of the value of my investment portfolio. That's my current plan.

I've started to tap into my network of friends for models and ideas, people who I used to think of as wild/living on the fringes of society. Turns out that they are all environmentally aware and frugal (working on small farms and using up their clothes until they totally fail and so on). Putting it in a crass kind of way, they've gone from being "weirdos to heros" in my eyes. :) I'm learning now and implementing ideas but I def have a long way to go.
I certainly appreciate my position.

halfmoon
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by halfmoon »

It sounds like your husband is looking out for you, and you're also thinking clearly for yourself, so I'll stop worrying. ;) Marriage certainly eases the whole process of sharing your life legally and financially. I'm glad you were finally able to have that.

It's funny that you mention the dream of spending a year traveling. My DH and I often discuss what I'll do in the likely event that he dies first, and traveling around the country in our tiny old motor home is one scenario. I think that staying in our current home without him would be too painful. Whatever you end up doing, I wish you the best.

I was recently reading that San Francisco and a few other cities (New York is one) are planning to fight airbnb for posting ads that violate local zoning laws prohibiting short-term rentals in residential neighborhoods. The complaint is that the neighborhoods are losing their residential character and gaining a transient one instead. Airbnb counters that they have no responsibility for how their site is used. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

One last question: is the picture by your name one that you painted? It's beautiful.

sfchristo
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:02 am
Location: SF Bay Area, USA

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by sfchristo »

I try to think clearly (sometimes it doesn't happen!)

Moving out after a partner "flies with the angels": Yeah, so much of my life is wrapped up in his, it'll be a really really unmoored feeling I'm sure. He still works, so our trips tend to be short. It will be really different to know I could go somewhere for 3 weeks or 3 months or a year. Opens up a lot of possibilities. These days I'm just gearing up towards being more nimble/having a lot less stuff. I've made inroads but I have a long way to go.

AirBnb: yeah, who knows what form rentals will take in the future. There's a lot of plans to limit them. One thing in my favor, I'd be living in my house while renting out rooms and people seem to get that that is different than a speculator buying up houses, hiring a manager, and milling dozens of people through them every week. I'd do very well just renting my rooms out on weekends during the tourist months. (May-October)

Basically, I'm good as long as I don't blow it. And that's what I'm looking at these days.

I think your story is of especial interest because from the outline of it, it looks as though you retired and went back to work and are retiring again. It shows other (younger) people that just reaching some magic number of assets isn't enough. That things get real, they get messy in some ways.

Picture: yes, it's one of my paintings. Thank you! I'm looking forward to doing a lot more work in the nearish future. I go through fantastic periods of productivity and then I'm fallow for a while.

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by Dragline »

sfchristo wrote: At 48 I don’t really know if I belong here. When I was younger I was more frugal by necessity. I eschewed spending money on temporary pleasures, e.g. going out to eat, because I was always saving for CDs or a new musical instrument. So the idea wasn’t really about saving but I always made sure I had some extra cash around.
Yeah, you belong here as much as anyone does. (I'm 50-something and in the DC area to give you some perspective.)

We're just mostly looking for thoughtful people who don't feel like they quite belong in the consumerist society that forms the mainstream. We may scream about personal preferences but there aren't any litmus tests outside the forum rules.

Welcome!

halfmoon
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 pm

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by halfmoon »

sfchristo wrote: ...it looks as though you retired and went back to work and are retiring again. It shows other (younger) people that just reaching some magic number of assets isn't enough. That things get real, they get messy in some ways.
That's very true. Resiliance is key. The good news is that some things will work out better than expected also.

Please continue to tell your story as time goes on. It's a unique and interesting one. You could also share a larger version of your icon. :) People here share all sorts of photos of things that they do or see or like.

sfchristo
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:02 am
Location: SF Bay Area, USA

Re: Hello All! Entering the next stretch.

Post by sfchristo »

@Dragline Thanks for the welcome! Yeah, I see myself as pulling further and further away from consumerism. Right now, I'm engaged in decluttering my place. There's a lot to do. :)

@ Halfmoon Barring a revolution, I should be ok, I just want to make sure to not blow my good fortune. When I first starting reading about ERE, I thought that that was too extreme but I can the sense in it and the great potential for growth. I think that's the thing, that beyond the aspect of having and keeping an asset base, it's really about developing myself in aspects of my life that I let wither over the years. Thanks for your interest in my art. I'll post more oil paintings.

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