Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Early Retirement Extreme Forums » DIY Skills Questions

1. 

   SF
   

   Apprentice
   Joined: Nov '10
   Posts: 92

   So it's coming time for me to replace my computer. I want something future-proof, quiet, and inexpensive to purchase and run. I don't need gaming power (and I don't want the 200 to 300 watt power draw).

   My first thought was an Apple Mini, but while well-made, the components are already dated.

   Next I looked into DIY mini tower. I've done DIY before, but for a gaming rig. But an inexpensive motherboard, CPU, case, power supply, hard drive, and networking card would be just about the same cost as an inexpensive HP or Dell. And if I try to price out a DIY to the Mini (mobile CPU, low power board), it's just about as expensive as off the shelf.

   Is there any reason not to buy a tower off the shelf? Is it just that inexpensive computer parts are a commodity?

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   AlexOliver
   

   Master
   Joined: Aug '10
   Posts: 461

   I think the terms "computer" and "future-proof" are mutually exclusive.

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   ishidav
   

   Novice
   Joined: Dec '10
   Posts: 20

   I've been very happy with the sub-$300 netbook variety. Quiet, inexpensive, lightweight, can play youtube videos. That being said, you can probably get a used computer on craigslist for less. Anything made after 2004 is probably just as good as new, if you replace the hard drive, reinstall the OS and replace the battery, if a laptop.

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   chilly
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Dec '10
   Posts: 275

   I came to the same conclusions as you. I've built all but one of my compuers in the past 20 years, and even that one (a dell) was fine, given it's purpose. If you are looking for a basic economical computer, the low end off the shelf stuff is hard to beat with parts. Sometimes barebones packages can help - but IMHO, why bother unless you like it as a hobby or are looking for something specific.

   You almost always get a better desktop per dollar than you will get a laptop. Especially if you already have the monitor & peripherals.

   What ishidav says is true - but 2004 is probably a stretch and is not going to save you that much more over 2008. I would not buy with the intention of replacing anything, unless I found a great deal of some sort. Something a few years old is a good bet. Refurbs with short warranties can be pretty cheap on ebay - especially if you do prefer a laptop.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   SF
   

   Apprentice
   Joined: Nov '10
   Posts: 92

   For my common usage patterns, I don't need a laptop. I'm not opposed to a laptop though. The computer I'm using now is one of those giant old Macs. It's seemingly indestructible and actually runs pretty well, but PowerPC software is getting harder to find.

   For me, if I want something mobile, I think I'll get an iPod Touch-like device, or an android phone (but without a contract).

   But good point on looking for older hardware. Right now I need about 4Gb of memory (processor speed isn't as important), so I can target old computers that meet that spec.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,363

   If you want to future proof a little, get a higher efficiency PSU of higher wattage than you need... It will only draw what you're using and let's be honest, more and more power is used by computers as tech advances.

   Get a 1155 of 1366 socket, those should be good for at least 1 more generation of processors. Get a DDR3 standard motherboard, as DDR3 will be easier to find at better prices.

   Also, a rooted BN Nook Color is a very decent and versatile tablet for the price, if you want something mobile.

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. 

   MossySF
   

   Apprentice
   Joined: Nov '10
   Posts: 44

   I used to build my own computers all the time. Now, it's only laptops or netbooks for me. Less space used up and quieter. Plus they're pretty cheap if you don't care about gaming. For $250, a netbook includes nearly everything you need -- screen, mouse, keyboard, webcam, networking, wireless, sd/mmc readers, etc.

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. 

   ishidav
   

   Novice
   Joined: Dec '10
   Posts: 20

   JohnnyH said:
   

   If you want to future proof a little, get a higher efficiency PSU of higher wattage than you need... It will only draw what you're using and let's be honest, more and more power is used by computers as tech advances.

   This is true of gaming machines, but for general purpose machines it's actually going the other way, to less power consumption. Why pay for all those kW-H when all you are doing is browsing the web? The Atom- or ARM-based machines sound perfect for the OP's needs.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,363

   A computers energy usage has nothing to do with the PSU capacity. A 1250w and a 250w PSU will use the same power, assuming they are of equal efficiency... By buying larger now, you ensure that you will likely not have to replace your PSU in the future. I am very happy I bought a "large" 750w PSU years ago, it has saved me several re-wires.

   No need for overkill, I admit... But for most efficient purchase + cost of operation, be ready to get a common CPU. Common CPUs are trending up in energy usage. But it is still a better option than buying the most "efficient" (ie; expensive) CPU. Reminds me of cars; a Hybrid will never overcome its massive purchase price.

   I have to admit I am roundly disappointed in the processing ability of the Atom processors... Sweet spot seems to be Core2Duos, or AMD equivalent. CPUs and PSUs scale in their consumption, it's not on/off like a 0/1500w space heater.

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. 

    dragoncar
    

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    What JohnnyH says is mostly true, but I think the 1250w vs. 250w PSU example is a bad one -- the efficiency of a PSU will vary based on its load, and they generally get peak efficiency around 50% of rated max. Anything below around 20% of the rated max will be very poor efficiency, so I wouldn't use a 1250w for a 250w load. The difference between, say, a 1250w and a 750w for a 500w load would likely be negligible, however.

    Also, I agree with ishidav's main point, which is that the trend for power consumption is towards energy-aware computing. Newer processors use lower voltages and fewer watts per transistor. They will incorporate technology to turn off unused cores, etc. It's not a valid assumption that your next upgrade will increase power consumption.

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. 

    VinceG
    

    Novice
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 18

    If you can learn to use Linux, computers suddenly become future proof. Software is the problem, not hardware. I'm typing this on a IBM ThinkPad T40, made in 2003. Linux makes this seven year old machine quite serviceable, and it will remain so until the machine's hardware dies.

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. 

    Christopherjart
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Apr '12
    Posts: 191

    Off the shelf computers normally don't come with enough RAM at least here they don't :-)

    Subnotebooks are good for people who just want internet and stuff like that (no DVD drive!)

    If I just wanted internet I'd get the new Ipad. A student just bought one and it looks amazing.

    To actually replace my computer, I'd want a laptop with a large display and at least 4gb ram. Really that's the minimum for Photoshop, but most people probably don't work with 14 megapixel and larger images.

    It will be interesting to see what people suggest one year from now :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    Roark
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 73

    You might think about the cost of electricity over 3-4 years for a notebook vs a desktop computer and monitor. If you liked notebooks for the portability and convenience but didn't like the price, maybe fully calculating electricity use will help you decide.

    Depending on how much you use your computer, you might be spending $25 or more dollars on electricity per year in comparison to a notebook http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/computers.html

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    Catanduva
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 48

    Running linux with 1 gb ram here for years and i keep thinking how to use all that memory. I use mainly lightweight and console softwares. Doesn't consume more than 400mb.
    My computer is future proof until it explodes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    billc
    

    Novice
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 20

    Here's a non-technical description of a linux OS on an old PC.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2010/07/get_a_blazingfast_computer_for_free.html

    I know the local school district refreshes their student laptops every 4 years and sell the old ones to county residents for $50. Seems like a good candidate for a linux OS experiment.

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    northman
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 54

    Nobody mentioned Raspberry Pi?

    Google it!

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    riparian
    

    Master
    Joined: Oct '11
    Posts: 341

    Catanduva can you edit videos and render them in mp4, wmv, and avi?

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    Rex
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 59

    RPi is still having distribution issues, though; the few examples on eBay are running more than what I could build a decent computer for straight from Newegg. :/

    When they become more available, it'd be a good option, especially using Portable Apps (though you'd have to run them under Wine; maybe Linux has some non-Wine microApps available?).

    Nonetheless, I think a small computer case and custom building/salvaging might be more cost effective and future proofing; I don't think DSL and PuppyLinux can run on ARM architecture yet, but I might be wrong. Your mileage may vary, of course.

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    Catanduva
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 48

    riparian, don't know. Never needed to do these sort of things. I'll need to do it in the future for a project i have in mind, nothing fancy so i really don't know if i'll have to change my computer for that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    KevinW
    

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    Nonlinear video editing (NLVE) is one area where, sadly, Linux is still pretty far behind MacOS and Windows. The commandline tools mencoder, transcode, and ffmpeg can do a lot but they aren't exactly easy to use. There are at least two efforts to make an industrial-grade NLVE, which show promise, but last I checked still had a long way to go:

    http://cinelerra.org/
    http://lives.sourceforge.net/

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    JohnnyH
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    quick data point: overclocked i7 w/16gb ram and many peripherals draws 180w under normal load according kilawatt. I'd estimate it costs me an extra $25 a year over a laptop for power assuming 8hr * 365d. Considering so many laptop repairs require replacement, I think $25/yr is quite a bargain.

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. 

    GPMagnus
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jun '12
    Posts: 100

    Even an old computer can have its life extended, sometimes significantly, by doing the following:

    1. Installing a light OS, like Linux
    2. Beefing up RAM
    3. Increasing the speed of your HDD or swapping it for a solid state drive on which you should put your OS

    For Apple products, these guys are really good:

    http://www.macsales.com/

    (I am in no way affiliated with them)

    If they do not have a video showing you how to upgrade your computer, you can go to ifixit.com to find videos.

    I'm sure craigslist has lots of stuff as well, likely even cheaper.

    All in all, you can usually make an existing computer workable for a few more years for about USD 100 and 30 minutes of work

    Posted 8 months ago #
23. 

    anomie
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Apr '12
    Posts: 215

    Raspberry Pi has improved their distribution and production in past months to meet the huge demand, I think:

    $25 computer
    http://www.raspberrypi.org/

    Posted 8 months ago #
24. 

    Noob
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jan '13
    Posts: 79

    You should also not lose sight of what the OP is looking for. If you want cheap with future-proof I think everyone should look at warranties. You'll have to compromise a bit on the cheap side of things. but only because you're paying for the extended warranty. I got a refurbished gaming laptop with a 4 year warranty. The laptop brand new would have cost me almost 1,000USD more than what I paid for the refurbished model. And the place I ordered it from is a certified repairman for the brand I bought so for an extra 200 I got a 2 or 4 year warranty(I forget right now). And I had it customized with parts I wanted. So all-in-all, I saved myself 800 dollars off of the computer I wanted and still got a better machine and extended warranty. So when calculating all your power needs and price and everything in between.. Don't forget the warranty for future-proofing your machine.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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