Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Money Questions

Will Blue chip dividend payers always outperform non-payers?

(8 posts)
  1. The Dude

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 392

    The Dogs of the Dow coupled with value averaging...you may have already covered this, but what lead you to believe in this strategy (besides seeing better past returns)? What has you trusting that popularity doesn't bust this? Wouldn't it make sense that an index would eventually track this (even though the fee would be money wasted) if the theory holds true?

    @Matthew - A little off-topic and better to comment on the post, but funds that do exactly what I wrote (but charge 1.5%+ for it) already exist: HBFBX and HDOGX. Why it works? Blue chips, dividend payers outperform non-payers, mechanical (emotion-proof), rarely fails.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. The Dude

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 392

    @Jacob

    How far back is the track record? HDOGX on morning star shows it has done about 32% better then the S&P over the last 10 years. Is that pretty typical for a decade?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. RobBennett

    Journeyman
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 120

    "What has you trusting that popularity doesn't bust this?"

    It sounds to me as if you are directing your question to Jacob, not me, Matthew. I'll just share my take while we await his response.

    Implicit in your question is a suggestion that investors are rational. If investors were rational, they would take note that certain strategies work better than others and bid up the companies that one needs to buy to participate in these strategies and thereby undermine the future success of the strategies. If most investing decisions are not rational ones but intensely emotional ones, none of this follows. If emotion rules, good strategies can remain good forever. My belief is that emotion is dominant in investing (some rationality does come into it too, of course).

    John Walter Russell, the fellow who helped me develop my calculators until his death last year, was a believer in Dogs of the Dow. He was in general a big believer in buying companies that pay good dividends. I haven't focused on dividend-related strategies enough to offer informed comments. But I have noted that a good percentage of the people who I think of as being particularly smart about investing are drawn to dividend-payers. So I have a strong inclination to believe that they are onto something.

    Rob

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. OurLifeInc.

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 56

    You should look into it Rob. I read some of your site and I think you have a lot of interesting things to say. I recall John Walter Russell posting a lot on the Morningstar Dividend forum. He definitely spoke a lot about the power of dividend investing. Like I mentioned to you previously, that is the only drawback I see in your strategy of value informed indexing. How to generate current income without selling off shares. I suppose the whole portfolio doesn't have to follow that strategy, of course. Anyways, the current income is why I am drawn to dividend payers and you are right, if you look at some of the most successful investors ever, a lot of their picks are dividend payers (Warren Buffett included).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,297

    32% is unusual. A 10 year period is not representative. The best book to look into in terms of what tends to beat what is
    "What works on Wall Street"
    http://www.amazon.com/What-Works-Wall-Street-Best-Performing/dp/0070482462

    PS: If BerkShire paid a dividend, I would switch a substantial part of my money to Buffett.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. Kevin M

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 211

    "PS: If BerkShire paid a dividend, I would switch a substantial part of my money to Buffett. "

    You'd probably have a lot of company. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. The Dude

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 392

    @Jacob

    Thanks for the reference. I will have to seriously consider this strategy with the money I have outside my Roth and 401k.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Cashflow

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 97

    I use actively-managed accounts for the total return portion of my portfolio. My money managers get paid for building my wealth and I don't care if they do it with dividends or capital gains or some combination thereof.

    For the portion of the portfolio I direct myself, I look for stocks that grow their dividends regularly. I'm interested in continuing to receive the dividend income stream over time rather than any capital appreciation that might happen (my heirs can worry about capital appreciation after I'm gone).

    I want to know the answers to questions like: Does the company grow its dividend? Does the free cashflow also grow to support the rising stream of dividend payments? Is the company likely to continue paying a dividend because it has a wide moat and generates a high return on invested capital?

    Since I have my dividend paying stocks in a DRIP (dividend reinvestment plan) until I need the dividends to cover living expenses someday, I enjoy having stock prices fall because my reinvested dividends buy more shares. Unfortunately, good dividend paying stocks don't usually decline in price as much as non-dividend payers do in a market sell off because other investors like to jump in and buy them at bargain prices.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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