Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Transportation Questions

1. 

   mikeBOS
   

   Master
   Joined: Nov '10
   Posts: 554

   Why Don't Young Americans Buy Cars?

   Apparently GM is ripping their hair out trying to figure out how to get hipsters to buy cars. And there's a growing industry panic that young people won't be as obsessed with defining themselves by their wheels as much as their parents were. So far the marketers' strategy for appealing to 20-somethings involves offering cars in different colors. Good luck with that.

   Toyota USA President Jim Lentz: "Many young people care more about buying the latest smart phone or gaming console than getting their driver's license." Yeah, they're not buying $20k cars because they bought a $300 PS3 instead. I see.

   When the group you're targeting laughs at your marketing material, that isn't intended to be funny, because it's perceived as a bunch of baloney, you've got a long way to go.

   Maybe they could, I don't know, start building better products? "Nah, we'll just paint our old stuff lime green, that'll do it."

   Posted 1 year ago #
2. 

   YoungAndWise
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Dec '10
   Posts: 151

   :)

   I'm glad that my generation isn't after the whole car thing.

   Posted 1 year ago #
3. 

   jennypenny
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '11
   Posts: 1,346

   My DD16 won't get her license (despite my pleading). She's taking driver's ed in school and half of her class has no intention of getting their license. They talk about living somewhere where they won't need a license or car. I think they're starting to think of driving like they view smoking--it's ok occasionally, but it's expensive and not good for you or the environment. It's shocking to me to hear them talk that way because I grew up thinking a car meant freedom.

   Another problem might be if you can't find a job--then you can't afford a car and I guess you really don't need one either.

   Posted 1 year ago #
4. 

   dragoncar
   

   Expert
   Joined: Oct '10
   Posts: 1,289

   Getting a license now is a very low-cost investment in the future. Every single insurer asks the age at which you were first licensed to drive. If your daughter ever changes her mind about driving in the next 60+ years of her life, she will wish she just got it early, when the whole process was neatly built-in to her driver's ed class. Plus, she'll still have the hassle of getting another state ID card, and driver licenses are the most trusted IDs because people know what they look like. Other valid IDs are often turned down due to the ignorance of the person checking the IDs (they aren't sure it's real and don't want to get in trouble). Plus, what if her DM gets sick and needs her to run some errands? :-P

   Posted 1 year ago #
5. 

   Freedom_2018
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Dec '10
   Posts: 175

   +1 for Dragoncar's comment:

   When I first went to school in the US, I was living near/on campus as were most of the other international students. School administration tried to "help" international students in getting up-to-date on the American Way of Life (i.e. where to get dry cleaning done, remembering to hold doors open for people etc, using silverware etc.)

   Forgot to tell us about getting a US licence right away even though we had no immediate means/intention of owning/driving a car...learnt to get this ASAP from a senior international student who said the best time to build up a 'perfect' driving record is when you have a licence but no car!

   2 yrs later upon graduating and getting a car, this paid off in reduced insurance rates versus someone who never bothered to get a licence thinking "I don't have/can't afford a car so why should I get a licence")

   Posted 1 year ago #
6. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,366

   Wait for it.... wait for it...

   Me: I've got it!!! -A car.... that. is. also... a smart phone!
   Executive: Get Apple and Bookface on the line!

   Madison Ave should hire me.

   This is great news. Maybe all key consumer BS will fall like dominoes after just one key victory.

   Posted 1 year ago #
7. 

   dragoncar
   

   Expert
   Joined: Oct '10
   Posts: 1,289

   Don't get me wrong, it's great that youngsters aren't buying the marketing BS. The reality is, however, that the vast majority of people in the US really DO need cars. Need as in they could not get to work without a car or moving (but of course they can always move). If all the young people move into dense population areas where public transit and biking will work, great. But that will drive up prices even more in those places, causing people to have to.. wait for it... move farther away, again necessitating cars.

   Over time, the high rises will get higher and prices will fall. But by then, the density might be so unbearable that there will be another flight to suburbia.

   Posted 1 year ago #
8. 

   LonerMatt
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Sep '11
   Posts: 168

   Meh, I live in rural Australia and don't use a car at all.

   It's great.

   Posted 1 year ago #
9. 

   dragoncar
   

   Expert
   Joined: Oct '10
   Posts: 1,289

   Do you happen to live near a town center? How many people in your area could live without a car? Or do you tow a bike trailer many miles a few times a year for supplies? Or do you ride a horse or are you one of those who doesnt call a truck a car? In other words, how do you get by, and can what you do be done on a large scale?

   Posted 1 year ago #
10. 

    Felix
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 405

    Here's an article with a bit more on how car manufacturers try to reel the young back in:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/business/media/to-draw-reluctant-young-buyers-gm-turns-to-mtv.html?_r=1

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. 

    Surio
    

    Sorcerer
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 601

    @dragoncar,
    Oh please? No need for such a sense of exclusivity. Look at Europe, Asia and other places where regular middle-class life (just like in America) does go on very happily without personal car ownership featuring into the equation like it does in the States. In case it didn't strike you, one simply re-arranges ones' life accordingly.

    There are very many more beautiful ways of life out there that is not as "envisioned and enshrined" by the Americans, if only we paused to remove our blinkers, restrain our egos and cared to look.

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. 

    prosaic
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jan '12
    Posts: 68

    Considering the unemployment rate for the 20-somethings, and the huge student loan debt many of them have after college, it's no surprise that won't --or, literally, can't (don't qualify for car loans)-- buy new cars.

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    mikeBOS
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 554

    @prosaic I figured the explanation was pure economics too, but this stat in the article stood out: "The Times notes that less than half of potential drivers age 19 or younger had a license in 2008, down from nearly two-thirds in 1998."

    Just getting your license doesn't cost much, so that seems to me more like a shift in attitude than pure economics.

    Unless people are thinking they can't afford a car anyway, so why bother with a license, but I don't think people really think like that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    ktn
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 116

    If American young ones are anything like Finnish youngsters, just wait till they have kids.

    I am seeing a similar phenomenon here. Young people care more about the planet and aren't as much into cars, big homes and such. They continue to lead 'lite' lives even after they've settled down with a partner. But then comes along the baby and b-o-o-m! All of a sudden, they need a bigger home (tiny still by American standards), car (a mini/subcompact in American-speak), appliances, accessories.

    This seems to be how things are heading here in northern Europe, where we have great public transport options still. It will be interesting to see how these young Americans fare through their 30s.

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    BeyondtheWrap
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 268

    @mikeBOS: "Just getting your license doesn't cost much, so that seems to me more like a shift in attitude than pure economics."

    Disagree. I live in a one-car household where my mother and my brother are the drivers. If I were to get a license, the number of drivers in my household would increase and thus car insurance would go up (especially since I am in a high-risk group).

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    JasonR
    

    Master
    Joined: Feb '11
    Posts: 334

    @Freedom_2018 - Door holding classes? How does that work?

    I have a tendency to hold doors open for people who are too far away which creates an awkward situation as they feel compelled to shuffle faster toward the exit to relieve me of my politeness. I like to think I'm helping them exercise. But what's the cutoff distance? Does it change if she's pregnant? What if I'm holding the door and I get stuck in one of those endless loops of mass exodus and my wife's already put the groceries in the car and it's been 17 minutes and I'm still holding the door? Can I tag out? To whom?

    That door holding class seems like it's worth it's weight in gold. Any other tips on being American? They never teach us this stuff.

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    mikeBOS
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 554

    @btw Hadn't considered that.

    @JasonR You've got to master the technique of discreetly looking behind you as you approach the door. If it's borderline just let it slam as you quicken your pace hoping you judged correctly and never see them again. Unless they're carrying something, in which case, if it's a heavily-frosted cake, trip them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    LonerMatt
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 168

    >> Do you happen to live near a town center? How many people in your area could live without a car? Or do you tow a bike trailer many miles a few times a year for supplies? Or do you ride a horse or are you one of those who doesnt call a truck a car? In other words, how do you get by, and can what you do be done on a large scale?

    Yes. I live in the town centre. WIth about 10,000 other people who could probably do without a car (in a town area of 20,000).

    I don't tow a trailer.

    Could it be done on a large scale? If bicycle infrastructure was a priority, and people considered the bicycle an alternative than definitely. At the moment, it's viable, but not attractive to lazy people.

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    Felix
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 405

    There's quite a difference between Europe and the USA regarding infrastructure. The USA is built for cars. Europe is not, at least not to the degree of the USA. It was quite a culture-shock for me to see all these giant streets and parking lots. You can drive everywhere. Its like an order of magnitude more that what I am used to here in Germany, and we are like the car-capital of Europe.
    It's probably because Europe was more widely populated before the car was invented and the US could adapt itself better to a population equipped with cars. Going car-less is probably much easier in Europe than it is in the US.

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    dragoncar
    

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,289

    Thanks, LonerMatt. That supports my perception that, in your town, even about 50% of people would have to move closer to the city center. Is there enough housing for them? Maybe, if you just split each dwelling into two smaller dwellings. Of course, also add in the people in between the towns (although you do need some people in between, so perhaps not).

    "But then comes along the baby and b-o-o-m! All of a sudden, they need a bigger home (tiny still by American standards), car (a mini/subcompact in American-speak), appliances, accessories."

    This is instinct driven. Yes, the mind can overcome these nesting instincts, but often people just end up rationalizing what their hormones are saying (including when choosing a partner).

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    Hoplite
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 489

    And another report noting the decrease in driving especially amongst Gen Y:

    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20337781/americans-driving-less-using-public-transit-more-report

    "The ones really shifting their driving habits are people ages 16 to 34. The average young person, the report said, drove 20 percent fewer miles in 2009 than the average young person in 2001."

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. 

    BeyondtheWrap
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 268

    If GM wants to appeal to the young hipsters, they should start manufacturing bikes. Maybe even smart phones and gaming consoles while they're at it. Supply and demand, people.

    Posted 1 year ago #
23. 

    tac
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 79

    I have been licensed to drive since my teens (currently early 30s). I used to own a car, which I bought used on CL. It eventually died, and I decided to see if I could live without it. I mostly rely on my bike or walking, occasionally use public transit, and have a zipcar membership. I do not live in a super walkable area or have access to fantastic public transit (we have a few bus lines, forget about big city amenities like a metro/subway). If I want to go away somewhere (say, camping), I will usually carpool with a friend who does own a car, and give them money for the gas. Or I take the train, if that is an option.

    Right now, it works well. I don't know how well it would work if I had kids or a more demanding job (or both). I probably do spend an average of 2-3 hours each week extra in transit that I would not spend in transit if I were driving. Most of that is on the bike though, so I count it as less time I have to spend working out. So I don't know if I will buy a car again in the future. If I do have kids, I probably will try to facilitate their learning to drive early on, as I think in the US it is just one of those skills that is good to have, even if you rarely put it to use. If I were living somewhere with a longer history of public transit (i.e., Europe) I might be less inclined to think it was important.

    Posted 1 year ago #
24. 

    Hoplite
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 489

    Getting a license is important. If I had it to do over again, I'd go here:

    http://attilaschoolofdriving.com/

    Gain lifelong road confidence and overcome driving phobias or anxieties.

    Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.