Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Politics, and other eternal disagreements

Efficiency

(12 posts)
  1. secretwealth

    Expert
    Joined: Jun '11
    Posts: 1,500

    This idea has come up in some different threads, and I think the people in this community have a calibre of intellect and temperament that would make for a very good discussion of the issue.

    Much of Jacob's book--particularly the tips of the latter half--are all about efficiency. Much of what draws me to ERE is the idea of efficiency--doing more with less. I have always been fascinated by efficiency. I've always loved small houses and apartments, all-in-one storage solutions, and the like--even before I even contemplated early retirement and was blowing 2k/mo. on rent. It's also one reason why I love my 430sq ft. apartment and most houses in Manhattan.

    There are problems with efficiency, however. Many things are inefficient but beneficial in other ways. Many of the things that make us human are inefficient, too. While there is beauty in efficiency, many beautiful things are inefficient, and many inefficient things are beautiful. Rube Goldberg machines and hand-painted portraits are obvious examples. Love is very inefficient. So too is family, humor, and many other things that make life worth living.

    IMO, this is the only Achilles' heel in the ERE movement, but it's a small one. It doesn't address the place that these other issues have in our lives. Gift giving is a good example. It is difficult to give socially-acceptable gifts to people as an EREr, and while this is more the fault of a society with ill-placed values than it is a fault of the ERE philosophy per se, it does point to the difficulty that reconciling an efficiency-driven lifestyle with the less efficient parts of life.

    This is really only the tip of the iceberg, and I'm sure more eloquent and reasonable people than me could contribute more to the discussion.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Surio

    Sorcerer
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 601

    Reading these might also help in understanding, and shed light on obsession with "efficiency" in some parts of the World, more than the others.

    I mentioned it here in the other thread, but I am going to consider it "dead", for all practical reasons.

    From that response:
    =====================
    1. Look up and read more on the "invisible Gorilla" experiment (and their new book) if you are interested. It expands further on the flaw of "Inattentional blindness" (Read the section, "Possible Causes: Expectation" on the page, where you can draw the immediate connection to this discussion on not to focus on 'efficiency' alone)
    2. Research by Richard Nisbett also distinguishes cognitive models that are a byproduct of culture. The Geography of Thought.

    Both of those are enjoyable, rigorous and scientific books. if all they finally end up doing is injecting us super confident NTs with a sense of humility, I would say that is a good thing.

    In some places, a fine line is what separates efficiency and exploitation: Motherjones article

    Another link to bolster the ideas from "Geography of thought":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Everett

    From another thread response: Jacob's father is onto something too.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. jennypenny

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 1,338

    You have to tease apart efficient and logical. If you define efficient as using the least money and energy to gain the result you desire, then sometimes doing something illogical will be the most efficient way of doing something. I think this is especially true in our more human endeavors like relationships.

    Suppose your partner wants to do something one way, but you know it's not the best way. If it's something important to them and not you, the most efficient thing to do is let them do it their way from the beginning. It may grate on your logical side, but if it gets you to where you're going to end up with the least amount of strife, then it's the most efficient thing to do.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Chad

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 999

    I've always been fascinated by efficiency too. Probably part of the reason I hate "real" jobs. Anyway...

    "Rube Goldberg machines and hand-painted portraits are obvious examples. Love is very inefficient. So too is family, humor, and many other things that make life worth living."

    I think it really depends on how you define efficiency, whether these are inefficient or not.

    If you define efficiency as living the best life you can with the less (resources, money, energy, etc.). Love could be considered a very efficient way of being very happy and healthy. Same could be said of a work of art that you really enjoyed. All of this increases your happiness, which would be a major factor in living the best life possible. It's much harder to quantify/measure, but not necessarily inefficient.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Dragline

    Master
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 959

    I think efficiency as a concept is essentially a tool. Like money. Or a bicycle. Or a hammer.

    And its a very valuable tool. But, maybe a little paradoxically, its best applied to the things that one would ordinarily care least about -- like shopping (for me), making enough money to live on, selecting an efficient place to live, not paying for or owning things you don't use. Since we have a limited amount of time on this earth, we want to use efficiency to reserve more of that time for activities and relationships we enjoy, which we won't necessarily pursue in the "most efficient" manner.

    But there are some areas where we do not want efficiency, because of the risks associated with it. The easiest example to look at in the context of this forum is the idea of a safe withdrawal rate. Safety means you are giving up efficiency. You will die with money you can't use. That's inefficient. But its preferable to taking a risk that you will run out of money. (An interesting read on this subject is "Spend "Til The End", which advocates a higher withdrawal rate.) Life insurance for your kids is another example. Building codes are usually not efficient, because they are focused on safety, not cost. As N. Taleb observes, efficient systems are often brittle and can be subject to catastrophic failure. "Too Big To Fail" institutions are often very efficient, but not very safe.

    Efficiency is the wrong tool for many important things. We don't really want efficient government, unless we want to live in a dictatorship. Thus, democratic and republican forms of government are inefficient by design. We don't really want "efficient" relationships -- we'd rather have more friends than fewer, although in this camp we value friends that like efficiency and do not waste our time. Love is not very efficient. Neither are good manners. The process of raising children is horribly inefficient. Art and music are inefficient. Many good things to eat are inefficiently made. Many of the things we do to stay healthy are inefficient, but we'd rather be safe than sorry in that area, too.

    But what about efficiency for its own sake? It is true that efficient systems can be aesthetically pleasing and often comforting. Many people "feel good" about having done something more efficiently than not, even though they might waste the gain they have achieved on some other inefficient practice. Like buying the most efficient heating system you can find for a large space that you don't really use. A lot of hi-tech gadgetry is sold on this "desire to be efficient."

    I think there is a problem when efficiency becomes the goal, and not the tool. Shall we say "The love of efficiency is the root of all evil"? I would not say that, but I do see blind "efficiency-worship" as something that needs to be recognized and controlled. Almost all practicing economists suffer from this disease. Whenever you hear a justification for something that is essentially "we are doing this because its economically efficient", you are seeing/hearing "efficiency worship" in action, because it is effectively equating "efficiency" with "good" without any critical analysis of the alternatives or the potential outcomes from safety or other perspectives. Popular economic and political thought is plagued with this disease, and it has been my experience that most people engaged in efficiency-worship are not even conscious of what they are doing and why they think what they think.

    Like many here, I was more enamored with efficiency when I was younger. If life has taught me anything, its not to value one concept or tool exclusively, but to put it in its proper place in the tool box and use it when appropriate. But measure twice before using any tools.

    "Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. jennypenny

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 1,338

    @dragline--After reading your post (which I really like) I realize we're using two different definitions of efficiency. I think I'm combining efficiency and expediency. I like your explanation of efficiency in it's purest form.

    When I was younger I too used to search for the perfect method for everything. Now my first decision is always "where do I want to end up?" Whatever method gets me there fastest and without compromising my values wins. I'm old enough to realize there are many valuable "tools" as you put it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. KevinW

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    Efficiency is realized at two levels: macro-level strategic efficiency and micro-level tactical strategy. Macro-efficiency is avoiding whole swaths of effort that are not productive toward the overall goal. Micro-efficiency is optimizing and tweaking to shave off a few percent off an immutable process.

    What I've seen in computer programming, and in lifestyle design, is that strategic efficiency has vastly more substantial effects, and tactical efficiency often involves shortsighted tradeoffs that make the system more brittle or create problems that resurface later on.

    So it usually pays to be very careful about the scope and scale of what's going on, and then mellow out about the implementation. Trying to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency is often what causes practices to be heartless, exploitative, or unmaintainable.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Chad

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 999

    @KevinW
    "So it usually pays to be very careful about the scope and scale of what's going on, and then mellow out about the implementation."

    Agreed. Actually, billionaire Mark Cuban had a tangentially related post on his blog recently. About giving up profit for some type of ethical gain. In this case is was to keep Americans employed in exchange for giving up a few percent profits.

    http://blogmaverick.com/2012/01/29/would-shareholders-give-a-higher-pe-to-keep-jobs-in-the-usa/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. KevinW

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    I actually think it's in shareholder's interests for management to maintain sustainable relationships with all their stakeholders. I.e. treat their customers, suppliers, employees, and environment reasonably well so they will all continue doing business together. Not many companies operate this way, though, most seem to just aim for avoiding bad PR flare-ups.

    I haven't been able to take Mark Cuban seriously after his recurring role on "Walker, Texas Ranger."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,291

    "Doing the right things is more important than doing things right."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Chad

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 999

    Unfortunately, we are stuck in the "doing things right" mindset, which makes everyone miserable in the end. Thus, Greg Smith's recent letter as he exited Goldman.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. GandK

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 271

    Elaine St. James wrote: "Have nothing in your home that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful." I agree. Beauty is generally inefficient until you start examining the emotional toll of the alternative.

    I don't think real efficiency can always be quantified.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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