Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Lifestyle Questions

1. 

   sshawnn
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Mar '11
   Posts: 263

   Nearly a year ago, I was intrigued by the Warrior diet in Jacob's book. After reading that section of the book I did a fair amount of reading about the merits of calorie restriction in general. I did not immediately adopt the plan as I was preparing for an Ironman did not want to deviate from the plan I set out on. The Ironman has long been completed, my exercise declined to mortal levels, and unfortunately I have let my weight get away from me a bit.

   Monday I decided I would no longer feed with the pigs at my workplace. It is amazing the number of health care professionals that let their weight balloon! I took it even a step further and decided to not eat until I get home each day at about 4 pm.

   Day three has been the easiest yet. It is very liberating not preparing lunches, hassling with remembering to take it, warming it up, listen to others complain of the smell of my brussel sprouts, and generally be free of the obligatory "lunch time." If you know me from this forum you know that my family has spent way too much on food in the past. Although this situation has become vastly better, I believe the my warrior diet will bring on more savings and more importantly, sustainable long term health.

   Posted 1 year ago #
2. 

   riparian
   

   Master
   Joined: Oct '11
   Posts: 341

   Intermittent fasting and calorie restriction don't have to go together. IFing is also a way to gain muscle (see leangains.com).

   Posted 1 year ago #
3. 

   m741
   

   Master
   Joined: Jan '11
   Posts: 736

   I've been experimenting with the Warrior Diet myself. Not a strict form of it exactly, but right now my diet looks like this:

   Weekdays:
   [Morning] 1-1.5 cups oatmeal
   [Midday] Water, Apple (sometimes)
   [Evening] Large meal (hummus+pitas/mac+cheese, probiotic drink)

   Weekends:
   [Morning] Nothing
   [Midday] Nothing
   [Afternoon] Large meal (pizza/buffet/ramen)

   Half the appeal is that I can be lazy since there's only one meal to prepare. I was heading in this direction anyway. On weekdays, at least, I used to eat two meals of oatmeal but I was supplementing the lunch with candy from a vending machine.

   Posted 1 year ago #
4. 

   MountainMan
   

   Novice
   Joined: Nov '11
   Posts: 20

   I've been IFing for nearly 6 months now, and I love it (although I still have sometimes breakfast when I do long ski tours/mountaineering during weekends). And unsurprisingly the lost kilos also have a very positive effect on my climbing performance.
   But the best part is being free from the constant need for snacks/meals thoughout the day. Now I smile when I see coworkers getting all grumpy and tired if they have to skip mid-afternoon snacks.

   Posted 1 year ago #
5. 

   McTrex
   

   Apprentice
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 62

   So how do you transition to something like the Warrior Diet? I'd like to give it a try, but as it stands now, since having had Pfeiffer's disease a couple of years back, I need to eat/snack something every 2 hours or so. Before I never needed to do that. Like MountainMan said "coworkers getting all grumpy and tired if they have to skip mid-afternoon snacks".

   I'd love to at least get rid of those between-meal snacks, but how do I transition away from them? Or, in other words, how do I get my body to last longer on the energy I put in it? Different food?

   Any insights would be very much appreciated.

   Posted 1 year ago #
6. 

   m741
   

   Master
   Joined: Jan '11
   Posts: 736

   Well, simple - don't eat between breakfast and dinner for a day.

   For me, and I believe most people, food doesn't immediately give me energy. For instance, for lunch I used to eat a sandwich, or a big burrito, or palak paneer. And then I'd be in a daze and want to sleep for an hour or two. Without eating, I have much more energy through the middle of the day.

   The other thing is learning to enjoy slight hunger. There's a hunger where you feel sick, or a little dizzy, that's not good. But there's also a hunger that manifests as slight discomfort, which is not such a bad feeling.

   Posted 1 year ago #
7. 

   McTrex
   

   Apprentice
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 62

   Hmm, it's not hunger I'm feeling. In fact, I have hardly felt hungry since being sick. What I have is probably a blood suger level crash or something like that. I start feeling light in my head, sweating, feeling tired or cold, seeing very white in my face. A glas of coca-cola helps me feel better immediately. So I eat something to replenish my blood sugar or whatever it is, way before I actually feel hungry.

   Posted 1 year ago #
8. 

   sshawnn
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Mar '11
   Posts: 263

   McTrex, If you have Type 1 Pfeiffers, I dont see any contradiction. (as with any forum advice, seek your preferred advice if you have any doubts or questions.)

   I wholeheartedly agree with m741. Dont limp into the process. Make up your mind one morning that you are going to eat one meal that day and do it. Repeat.

   Enjoying that empty feeling is definitley something to consider. Recognize, embrace, and enjoy it!

   Posted 1 year ago #
9. 

   McTrex
   

   Apprentice
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 62

   @sshawnn,

   Yikes, I hope with Type 1 you're not referring to this:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeiffer_syndrome

   I was talking about Pfeiffer's disease, there's no such thing as a type I there, right?
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_mononucleosis

   Posted 1 year ago #
10. 

    sshawnn
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 263

    haha I was! (you never know) I still dont see a problem.

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. 

    MountainMan
    

    Novice
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 20

    @McTrex

    Make sure you stay well hydrated, replacing that coke by tea might already help a lot.
    It's easier and better to go "cold turkey", but if you really struggle a lot and need to concentrate (important work, driving...) I don't see why you couldn't eat a fruit or veggie, it's not a religion either.

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. 

    MattF
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 48

    I've been IFing from what I learned at leangains.com since the beginning of this month and have really enjoyed it. I've lost about 1 pound of fat per week, which is pretty exciting considering I was only at 14% to begin with. I'm currently below 12% and looking to hit 10% by May, but at this rate I imagine I can get even lower. (I started a creatine cycle, too, so my lean mass is artificially inflated due to water retention, skewing the BF% a bit)

    I eat about 3 meals/day from noon-9pm. What level of exercise are you guys doing on 1 meal/day? With my current lean mass, I need a solid 2000 calories/day to balance fat loss with muscle gain considering the heavy lifting I'm doing. And the amount of healthful food it takes to get to that level of calories is a bit more than I would want to stomach in 1 sitting.

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    Spartan_Warrior
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 502

    Thanks for the leangains link, riparian. This might be what I'm looking for. I've been doing the Warrior Diet as prescribed by the original creator Ori Hofmekler (http://www.warriordiet.com/) for a few months--that is, a 4-hour feeding period starting with one large protein-based meal (e.g. chicken and rice stir fry), and generally followed up with a smaller carbohydrate-based meal (e.g. oatmeal) a couple hours later. Quite honestly, it's had pluses and minuses. I do look and feel leaner (I don't own a scale but I've definitely lost some extra waist area), I do worry about food less, it is more convenient to do my cooking all at once and it does seem to trim my grocery budget. But I also don't have the energy I used to. I'm starting back into strength training and hitting the weights in a fasted state feels like it's slowing me down. To be quite honest, there have also been some indigestion issues. Even if getting it all down isn't an issue, it IS hard to digest a full day's worth of calories in four hours.

    The leangains method of an 8-hour feeding period with a meal before the training might be the solution to my problems but still have many of the benefits of intermittent fasting. The only one it would lose is I would have to prepare a lunch. But I don't mind much; it encourages me to make sure I use my unpaid lunch break at work.

    MattF, can you tell us a little about your diet? What's your food budget look like?

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    riparian
    

    Master
    Joined: Oct '11
    Posts: 341

    McTrex, first stop eating sugar and simple carbs and eat more fat. Once your body is used to making glucose from fat instead of having it instantly available from sugar you won't have blood sugar crashes. (This isn't medical advice.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    MountainMan
    

    Novice
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 20

    For me, one meal a day seems to be ideal for work days, where I walk to and around work a bit, but otherwise sit around all day, with the occasional lazy evening climbing/cycling in spring/summer/autumn. But yes, if climbing longer routes during the weekend, alpine ski touring (easily 5000+ cal) or mountaineering (10000+ cal), then more than one meal is required. Some professional climbers like Ueli Steck even have two body weights, one for hard rock climbing (lightweight), and one (more fat!) for mountaineering. I'm not that advanced, but I've definitely seen improvements in performance on the high output weekend days since I'm IFing during the week, presumably because of metabolic changes.

    On an interesting side note, the anti-inflammatory properties of the diet documented in peer-reviewed articles seem to have beneficial effects on my GFs sports-induced asthma. Saves money on inhalors :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    MattF
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 48

    I have been training fasted, basically following the "Fasted Training" scheduled shifted a few hours outlined at http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html. As long as I am well hydrated, I can usually psych myself into training hard even without having food beforehand. I have seen steady strength gains over the past month, but it's not that much data.

    A typical day goes like this:
    - 8am water, caffeine (coffee, or I have powder), work
    - 11am BCAAs + NO Xplode :), LIFT, 25g whey protein during
    - noon - 800 calories of turkey bacon, eggs, whole wheat bagel, milk
    - 4pm - bowl of oatmeal
    - 8pm - balanced dinner
    - 10pm - peanut butter / cottage cheese before bed, depending on remaining calorie budget

    I also try to snack on raw veggies as much as possible.

    My food budget is OK, but I wouldn't call it extreme. My wife and I are splitting a budget of $575/month but that includes occasional restaurants and other household items like shampoo, etc. I normally buy and cook meat en masse at around $2-4/pound.

    I am tracking my progress at bodybuilding.com. If you have an account there and want to connect, PM me.

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    Spartan_Warrior
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 502

    Bodybuilding.com is a cool site. I used to have a profile, but it's from about three years ago, so I may start a new one. I haven't lifted seriously in a couple years because of injuring my wrist in a car accident and then moving around and not having access to a gym. I'm starting back up from scratch more or less.

    Does your food budget include your supplements too? I'm trying to avoid buying any of that stuff again, although whey does look pretty good from an economical standpoint for grams of protein per dollar.

    I've probably been undereating on the Warrior Diet so far. Today I really looked at what I was eating, added up the calories, macronutrients, and the cost per unit and per serving (estimated where receipts weren't available). It came out to this:

    3 Eggs, 1 pc whole grain toast with Honey and Cinnamon, Milk, and OJ meal which is about ~$1.50 total for 730 calories: 31p/78c/33f

    1 entire Box Whole Grain Spaghetti, 1 Jar Tomato Sauce, 1 pc whole grain toast with butter, Milk for ~$5.89 total for 2070: 92p/363c/34f, plus an unmeasured amount of parmesan cheese

    Total of 2800 calories, 128p/441c/67f

    This is more than I would normally eat, but I found this out only by micromanaging the calories. This was a workout day and the target of ~3000 calories seems appropriate for my goals. Very hard to do with actual food, and not very cheap either.

    One of my goals since starting my early retirement journey has been to find an economical way of eating that supports bodybuilding. The "Spartan Diet" if you will. It may simply be impossible to eat under $100 a month on a bodybuilding diet. I guess I'll find out.

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    Spartan_Warrior
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 502

    Update: I went shopping this morning and then spent most of the day doing math and counting calories in Excel in order to come up with my new "leangains-style" Warrior Diet. To throw the ERE into the mix, I also grabbed the price per serving for all of my food staples. These are meals I'm already used to making.

    Basic notes:
    This is the "one meal pre-workout" version of leangains. The percentage of daily calories for the three meals is roughly 25:50:25. As described on the leangains site, more carbohydrates and higher calories overall are consumed on workout days, while non-workout days have less calories and more from fat. Workout days are MWF. My goal was ~2500 calories on non-workout days, ~3000 on work-out days. This caloric intake should allow me at 5'11 to maintain a bodyweight of 175-180 lbs with low bodyfat--not super-sized by any means, but a respectable size for a natural amateur bodybuilder.

    I used this notation for calories and macros:
    "Calories: Protein/Carbs/Fats"

    So without further ado:

    Sunday (2485: 118/235/127 @ $7.28)
    1:00PM:
    - 3 Lg Eggs, 1 pc Toast w/ honey and cinnamon: 480: 23/38/27 @ $0.95
    - Orange Juice: 120: 1/29/0 @ $.32
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    5:00PM:
    - 2x Cheeseburgers: 975: 60/68/54 @ $4.61
    - Applesauce: 200: 0/50/0 @ $.36
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    9:00PM:
    - 3 servings Roast Peanuts: 450: 18/24/36 @ $.66

    Monday (2833: 161/342/64 @ $5.53)
    1:00PM:
    - 3 Lg Eggs, 1 pc Toast w/ honey and cinnamon: 480: 23/38/27 @ $0.95
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    - Orange Juice: 120: 1/29/0 @ $.32
    3:30PM WORKOUT
    5:00PM:
    - 1cup Rice, 1 Chicken breast, 2cups veggies stir fry: 1163: 93/132/12 @ $3.27
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    9:00PM:
    - 2 cups Oatmeal w/ honey and cinnamon: 680: 20/104/10 @ $.42
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19

    Tuesday (2542: 72/261/128 @ $3.45)
    1:00PM:
    - Peanut Butter & Jelly: 700: 24/84/35 @ $1.08
    5:00PM:
    - Box of Mac & Cheese: 1262: 30/153/57 @ $1.52
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    9:00PM:
    - 3 servings Roast Peanuts: 450: 18/24/36 @ $.66

    Wednesday (2803: 153/346/67 @ $5.15)
    1:00PM:
    - Peanut Butter & Jelly: 700: 24/84/35 @ $1.08
    3:30PM WORKOUT
    5:00PM:
    - 1cup Rice, 1 Chicken breast, 2cups veggies stir fry: 1163: 93/132/12 @ $3.27
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    9:00PM:
    - 2 cups Oatmeal w/ honey and cinnamon: 680: 20/104/10 @ $.42
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19

    Thursday (2350: 92/253/113 @ $3.63)
    1:00PM:
    - Peanut Butter & Jelly: 700: 24/84/35 @ $1.08
    5:00PM:
    - 3 Lg Eggs, 1 pc Toast w/ honey and cinnamon: 480: 23/38/27 @ $0.95
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    - Orange Juice: 120: 1/29/0 @ $.32
    - 3 servings Roast Peanuts: 450: 18/24/36 @ $.66
    9:00PM:
    - 1 cup Oatmeal w/ honey and cinnamon: 340: 10/52/5 @ $.21
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19

    Friday (3060: 123/497/72 @ $5.17)
    1:00PM:
    - 3 Lg Eggs, 1 pc Toast w/ honey and cinnamon: 480: 23/38/27 @ $0.95
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19
    - Orange Juice: 120: 1/29/0 @ $.32
    3:30PM WORKOUT
    5:00PM:
    - Box of Spaghetti, 1/2 Jar Sauce, Bread: 1860: 73/352/30 @ $3.28
    9:00PM:
    - 1 cup Oatmeal w/ honey and cinnamon: 340: 10/52/5 @ $.21
    - Milk: 130: 8/13/5 @ $.19

    Saturday - I often have dinner at my parents' house either Saturday or Sunday, so more often than not the cost is $0; occasionally I will go to a restaurant or something, so $5 could be considered the average.

    Total weekly cost: $35.21 (or 5.03/day = ~$150/month)

    Not too bad, and just in looking at this I notice a lot of room for improvement. I will probably not be making burgers anymore, unless its ground venison that I hunt myself--the ground beef is not cost-effective. If I replace Saturday and Sunday's menus with Thursday's, I would save $5.02, dropping the cost to about $129/month). I have a high tolerance for repetition so I wouldn't really care.

    I personally don't believe the supplement-industry hype about "1g protein per pound of bodyweight minimum"... it just doesn't seem in any way natural. But if I wanted to add 1 serving/24g protein of Optimum Nutrition Whey per day, the weekly cost is bumped up by $4.64. Throwing in some more eggs is actually cheaper per gram of protein, but also adds more fat and cholesterol. I found that chicken breasts, at least at the Martin's bonuscard price of 1.99/lb, are the cheapest source of protein at $1.77 per 100g of protein.

    In conclusion, I guess the point is it doesn't appear that difficult after all to eat enough calories for bodybuilding on a budget of $150/mo or less, especially considering I'm by no means an expert bargain hunter or cook. For instance, a better cook might make macaroni and cheese from scratch; for now I use the boxed variety.

    I hope to further decrease these expenses over time by clever shopping, clever cooking, gardening, fishing, and hunting, until I'm under $100/mo.

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    riparian
    

    Master
    Joined: Oct '11
    Posts: 341

    @Spartan, with hunting and fishing I eat a vlc version of a body building diet for less than $50/m.

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    Spartan_Warrior
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 502

    Awesome. I've never really liked low carb diets myself unless they are temporary (a "cutting" diet) but I could certainly see myself doing it if I had access to massive amounts of cheap meat. If only I lived in the woods. Hopefully I'll have some luck in this area. Do you do any gardening in addition to hunting/fishing? Also, this might seem silly, but are you counting ammo/bait/fees/etc into your food budget? I would want to at least consider that. For instance, I will have to pay $50 combined for hunting and fishing licenses annually just to go out and try, with no guarantee I'll even get anything, plus the cost of supplies.

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    riparian
    

    Master
    Joined: Oct '11
    Posts: 341

    I count the hinting license, but bullets and snare wire go under outfit. I think hunting might just be cheaper here.

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. 

    MattF
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 48

    Wow, that is a detailed breakdown, well done! To answer your question, my budget does include supplements. I bought more supplements than usual this month because I was getting excited about strength training again. I will always take whey protein, multi-vitamin, and fish oil. I could definitely cut the other stuff (BCAAs, vasodialator, creatine, etc.), but it fits within my budget for now and I enjoy it... better than beer that's for sure! :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
23. 

    aussierogue
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 346

    guys you have all spurred me on and im on my first day of intermittant fasting diet (20 hours in). not ready for full warrior mode just yet but gotta say i feel good. 4 hours to go and looking forward to my meal.

    Posted 1 year ago #
24. 

    EMJ
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 171

    Spartan_Warrior:

    Not very many veggies, and no fruit in your diet - how does that work?

    Posted 1 year ago #
25. 

    Spartan_Warrior
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 502

    EMJ: Actually, I forgot to include my post-workout green smoothie of 2 servings veggie (collard greens and kale), 2 servings fruit (banana and strawberries), 1/2 cup milk and 1/2 cup OJ. Probably adds about $1.00-1.25 and about 200 calories MWF. I also have OJ frequently and throw in some applesauce and stir-fry veggies. Overall, you are correct. Whole fruits and vegetables are rather expensive per calorie and therefore I don't give them the priority they probably deserve in my efforts to maximize calories and hit correct macronutrient ratios for the lowest total cost. I will eat more when I start growing my own.

    It's a work in progress.

    Posted 1 year ago #
26. 

    MattF
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 48

    Just to circle back since I looked up this thread anyway, I have more data on the leangains diet: I have gone from 165/14% at the beginning of the year to 162/10.5% today. Most of the fat loss was in the first 8 weeks, and strength gains have been consistent as well.

    Posted 1 year ago #
27. 

    livinlite
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Feb '12
    Posts: 108

    How bout the Carb Nite protocol?

    http://carbnite.com/

    Basically ultra-low-carb, with a bit of carb-heavy once in a while to re-stock and re-build the muscles.

    Posted 1 year ago #
28. 

    zarathustra
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Apr '12
    Posts: 60

    carbs do not build muscles.

    Posted 1 year ago #
29. 

    Felix
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 405

    @zarathustra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrF_UjhdxWg ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #

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