Has anyone noticed how each generation keeps adding 'must have' gadgets to their lives?For example my grandparents, who were born at the turn of last century, used to marvel at electricity and all appliances that came with it. For them an electric stove and a telephone in the house were modern marvels that were nice but not essential.
My parents generation grew up with radio's , record players , electric lights,fridges, cars etc and they wouldn't have considered life without these 'must haves'. But for them microwaves, CDs, computers etc are modern marvels...nice but not essential.
My generation ( I'm 46) grew up with TVs , walkmans, cruise control,video players etc and life would seem hard without such devices. For me i-pods, i-phones and internet banking are modern marvel...nice but not essential.
My 19 year old son couldn't imagine life without his i-pad, his i-phone, the internet and frequent overseas travel.
My point is this. Each generation makes life more expensive for itself. If we all lived like our grandparents lived , wouldn't life be so much cheaper...and therefore retirement so much more obtainable.
Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Miscellaneous
'Must haves'
(41 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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What a great point of discussion! I agree that the list of what we consider "must have" has changed over the years. I for one don't know if I could live without the internet and a computer now. It keeps me in contact with my family back home, makes my life easier, and keeps me meeting new people as well (like on the ERE forum). iPads seems like the next logical step of that.
In the opposite direction I have also noticed recently however that I can do without TV. I don't mind having the screen there for watching a movie, or playing video games, but I have learned to do without the whole idea of ABC, CBS, FOX, etc. If they all went away tomorrow I'm not sure I would notice.
Posted 1 year ago # -
My son has a whole layer of bills that I never had. His cellphone and internet charges would be well over $100 a month, a significant portion of his student income. He still has all the other consumer temptations that I had a generation ago e.g. beer,parties,cars .....Unfortunately he is at an age where he wants it all and society ,via the media, tells him that not only can he have it all he 'deserves' it too.And hey here's a credit card if you're a bit short of cash......
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't think it's always more and more. There's a lot of replacement going on. For instance, I suspect that for many people the stove is no longer a 'must have,' and has basically been supplanted by the microwave.
Similarly, land lines are on their way out. So although a telephone might have been a 'must have' for people born during/after the 1960s, it no longer is, and neither are walkmans (both have been supplanted by cell phones). Same goes for CDs, which are basically obsolete. Television is rapidly becoming unpopular.
I don't think anyone considers iPads or frequent overseas travel as 'must haves'. Maybe someone likes them, even loves them, but they're more conveniences or luxuries. I do agree that smart phones are rapidly becoming 'must haves,' or at least are considered to be must haves by a large part of the population (although I don't own one, yet), and of course the internet is as well.
It's great to imagine that I could get by with less. And when I'm traveling or camping, I do. But access to a computer, the internet, a cell phone, actually make things much cheaper. I can buy things far cheaper online than in the store; a cell phone means I don't have to pay a landline contract fee or have to change service when I move. I think a microwave is cheaper than using the stove. And so on.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think of my grandmothers as more of minimalist. Neither of my grandmothers had more than one of things, like handbags. They never had to have yard sales or go to donation centers to get rid of "stuff". They both seemed to only buy staples at the grocery store despite the invention of convenience foods. They recycled and upcycled without likely knowing those modern terms. They both had tiny homes that sure felt roomy when I lived with them. To me, these differences really add up financially. They also never seemed angry about their socio economic status despite having VERY little. Granted I knew them only in their later years.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Gadgets don' necessary make our life more expensive. For Ipod, Iphone etc, as technology advances, they become cheaper. If you avoid the newest version and buy 1 or 2 gen behind, you can get it really cheap. On top of that, such device can easily last minimum five years. I don't have a Ipone but I upgrade my cellphone every couple years instead of once a year as many people do. Its amortized cost per year is really low.(less than $60~$70 a year for hardware cost) I also use pay as you go and it cost me $6/month.
What make our life more expensive compare to generations ago are two things: 1.Car ownership. 2.Bigger and empty house. These two things can very easily eat up most of a person's after tax income. For no.2, it's can be controlled with some thought. For no.1, it's hard to avoid for most people, as the city planning flavors toward cars compared to walking and biking. People become isolated and it's hard to get around by walking and biking so they have to get a car to see each other. The side effect is that the society become more lonely.
My basic living expenses are:
-Housing (59%) (Mortgage, insurance, property tax)
-Food 17%
-Bus(6.4%)
-Natural gas( 5%)
-Cable TV (4.8%)(For parents)
-Electricity 3.5%
-Highspeed internet( 2.5%)
-Homephone 1.8%Posted 1 year ago # -
I was paying $1800 a year for a 2 (old) Iphones, & 1 cheap phone family plan. That $40 per month, per Iphone, 3g was a real rip off. We were paying almost the same for satellite. I would say 3k per year is not something my grandparents paid. Also back then antennas worked for free, even in the boonies, where as now they get zero reception. The home phones did not have those endless taxes and fees tacked on them either.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@741
A local high school has just stated that from next year every student must have an i-pad. The debate has begun as to their effectiveness but more schools are likely to follow.
Where I live if you want to get to the top of your field e.g sport, academia, business ,then international travel is required. This was not the case 30 years ago.Posted 1 year ago # -
@millionairerednecknextdoor
I like your comment about living like grandmas. In fact, I am trying to mimic them to a certain extent. Esp. in food choices b/c they eat zero processed food (I think the only exception is tofu if you count that as processed food)I do like some aspects of modern technology. I prefer having a washing machine for example (they wash their clothes by hand for most of their lives, I only wash my sweaters by hand).
Anyway, absolute must haves for me are electricity, running water, septic system(!), electric or natural gas stove, internet, a laptop, a comfortable bed/ room, a set of clothes, a set of pots and pans utensils etc, fridge, a car (at where I live, it is a necessity. Not in the place I intend to retire), a music playing device (I have a cd player and an MP3 player), access to a library.
Nice to haves for me are: non smart cellphone, a comfortable house, more furnitures and appliances I keep around the house.
Not needed are: TV, dvd player, netflix, cable, smartphone (I used to have all of those BTW).
Posted 1 year ago # -
@nz -
Where is this high school? Is it a public high school?
Also, although international travel might be a 'must have' for a particular field, it's hardly a must have generally. For instance, owning a race car may be a must have if you're a NASCAR driver; fancy clothes are a must have if you're a fashion designer. But I don't really think travel is a modern 'must have'. There are plenty of professions that don't require any travel at all, and most people I know (in America) travel out of the country on vacation once every few years, and rarely on business.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@741
Orewa College,Auckland New Zealand , public school, roll of about 1200.I agree that international is not a 'must have' however the perception by many ( not ERE types) is that it is 'normal' and has become part of the fabric of their life.eg about two thirds of my work colleagues would have gone overseas in the last 12 months, mainly for holidays.These people would consider themselves hard done-by if they didn't travel abroad. When I started my career 25 years ago , this was not the case international travel was relatively rare. In the school where I work there are sporting and cultural groups going to Canada, Japan and Australia in the next few months. And this is a modest lower middle-class school from the provinces.
Coming from an island nation with a relatively low population means that travel is perhaps more likely than for US citizens.
I'm not trying to justify their travel as being essential merely pointing out that they have added a layer of expenses to their lives that didn't exist in the past.....in my opinion this travel is just a case of keeping up with the Jones'Posted 1 year ago # -
@nz, without getting excessively inflammatory, that iPad rule falls into the militia joining category for me. There are a number of rants I could go off on w/r to our public school situation. This would quickly move to the top (although I see you are in NZ).
Actual necessities:
Food, clothing, shelter, heat (where it drops below 40F at night).Learned necessities (I can't personally imagine living without at this point):
Electricity, refrigerator, indoor plumbing / clean water, internet (for the leverage it provides), phone service.Worth working longer to be able to plan around:
Car. Skiing. Munchos. Pipe bomb making materials for school districts requiring purchase of iPads (I AM KIDDING! Although it does disgust me beyond words).Posted 1 year ago # -
What your grandparents did (and I am old enough to be one of them) was to procure items if they justified the cost. And, of course throughout history, there are those who purchased something "if others had one".
I still buy things on cost-justification. This means simply an "i" being in front of "phone" means zilch to me. If I needed a phone of any type, I would do my usual and purchase whatever did what I needed it to do. I do need a telephone.
I think everyone does. In our kitchen, we have a trimline phone by AT&T that must be from the 1980's. It does all I need it to do and uses no batteries and works when the electricity goes off even. Of course I have other phones in the house which do use batteries (cordless) and nothing wrong with them if the power is on. The old trimline will be available if the lines don't go down. Yes, my wife has a fancy Windows phone. She is the cell phone person in the family. We need a cell phone for her aging mother or we can't leave home, so that's why we have it. My wife texts and pictures, and whatever else the phone does. I have no interest in it, don't need it or want it, but we have it for reason stated.
I like the computer we have at home. It helps me speed up some things I do like looking crap up, and ordering things.
I could do that another way, but why?
The ugly thing to adding more and more "gear", is that many do it just to be the first, like freezing all night in lines just to be the first kid on the block to have it. Or having "it" to look important to friends and associates. This is the bad part of the new stuff.
The bottom line is much technology is available to us folks, and much more is on the way. When i "pod, pot or pan" 16 comes out with celebratory announcements, those even who cannot afford them will rush to the store. Sad.Posted 1 year ago # -
I have to say I am saddened by the mandatory Ipads. Now our school started programs like this but the school owned and maintained such items. There was never a cost to our students. Of course the items never actually leave the classroom.
Are you saying they must personally purchase the Ipad and the monthly 3g service? If so, wow........ That's what $499 plus $40 per month for the plan??!!Posted 1 year ago # -
@chilly
Just kidding but reminding you of "Echelon" in the UK that has an eavesdropping device to follow every phone call/email/internet posting/twittertwix and what ever else there is, looking for specific words like *ipe*omb. Don't get woozy, I am ONLY kidding you!!!!
Echelon brought to you by your friendly "Patriot Act" with many annual renewals and updates. Can you say TSA? LOL
Posted 1 year ago # -
@millionaire
My understanding is that each child is expected to buy their own i-pad . Apparently the school has done a bulk deal but I've heard nothing about plan costs. I think the school(taxpayer) will wear the internet costs. Very controversial but they are going ahead and it will be mandatory from February 2012.
Each school in NZ makes their one policies about IT, text books etc. so there is a lot of pressure to appear progressive and cutting edge.Posted 1 year ago # -
@HSPencer... LOL... I'm banking on being too cheap to buy a cross-Atlantic ticket to NZ as my defense. That, and of course, I'm sure Jacob would go to the chair before divulging our emails :)
Definitely a lover, not a figher... just extremely frustrating that government policy would go to such explicit extremes.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@chilly
Holdback on purchasing that ticket.
I don't think a 'cross Atlantic' ticket will get you anywhere remotely close to NZ.Posted 1 year ago # -
D'oh! I get more rewards points if I'd take the scenic route.
Billy Joel said it best... I'm in a New York, state of mind.
Honestly, I'm actually surprised the US isn't the one to be first with such a policy.
Posted 1 year ago # -
mandatory iPad are you kidding me?
having said that, my must have is an iPhone :( it's addictive and not at all durable and the data plans are a rip off.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It seems to me that must-have requirements are shrinking.
A laptop with free software and a free wifi node can now take the place of TV, phone, DVD player, cable TV, stereo, home entertainment system, etc. I don't care for cell phones, I would rather use the laptop.
The torrents provide more content than you can consume. Google voice is the phone connection. Youtube for timewasting.
If I had to, I could run my communications/entertainment system on 100W of solar panels and a couple deep discharge batteries (I have not calculated it out but 100W should cover laptop needs for quite a few hours).
Posted 1 year ago # -
-22lr revolver
-22lr rifle
-308 rifleBuy quality and it will last you a lifetime.. I would recomend:
-Smith & Wesson mod. 617 with 4" barrel ( 10 round cylinder )
-CZ 453 Varmint
-Howa Stainless 308 with heavy barrelZeiss Conquests 3-9x40 have very good optics! Dont buy cheap crap here either!
Cheap fun with the 22lr and hunting small game (rabbits, birds etc )
With the 308 you can hunt anything you want, and find cheap surplus ammunition for plinking/target practice.Many states in the US are overrun with feral pigs. These can be hunted year round, usually free of charge from ranchers.. 50-200lbs pigs produce alot of meat.
Right now I have 5 rifles.. Im seriously thinking about thinning the herd, down to just these 3 items. They will do anything I ever need!
Posted 1 year ago # -
@Northman
"Many states in the US are overrun with feral pigs. These can be hunted year round, usually free of charge from ranchers.. 50-200lbs pigs produce alot of meat."I've actually thought about that, although I'm not a hunter (yet). Have you actually tried it? Does it taste like domestic pig?
Posted 1 year ago # -
@Northman, I have a similar collection of guns. I'd prefer a 30.06 to the 308 that I have tho. Also you left a defense weapon off your list.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The only must have gadgets are hygene equipments (electric shaver especially)and information gathering equipments (laptop, smartphone, ipad)
apart from that I don't have any must have equipment
Posted 1 year ago # -
chilly: I have not tried it, living in Europe myself, but reading hunting forums, I havnt seen any negative comments yet. Most hunters donate the meat to poor people in their community, as most hunt them as pests.
But I would say I belive they taste better, since they eat natural food. They will be carnivorus if they find easy pray..
riparian:
I have two 30-06, a 308, 223, 22lr.. maybe gettin a 9.3x62 or 7x57 aswell.. or I might sell everything except those two.Well, for PD I would choose..
-a Smith & Wesson 686 in 357 Magnum. Its almost identical to the S&W 617, so you have a practice and a PD gun. They feel the same
-Remington mod 870 shotgun
-AR-15!
-CZ 75B : 9mmPosted 1 year ago # -
Modern niceties that my wife & I prefer not to live without: Internet, tap water, flush toilet, bathtub/shower, hot water heater, silent dishwasher, washing machine, microwave oven, electric stove/oven, refrigerator, sturdy shoes/boots, rototiller multitool (it can be a woodchipper, mower, & power shovel in addition to being a tiller), black landscaping plastic (weed control & temporary shelter) and chainsaw (preferably electric).
I'm trying to learn to do without the refrigerator in case of extended power outages. We both are comfortable cooking with a campstove or in the fireplace. She's crocheted and knitted for decades and now is spinning fibers into yarn and dyeing the yarn.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@northman heh, I have the ruger 357 mag.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Why do you keep these guns? Is it that unsecure in your countries?
I live in Turkey (a not so secure country, because of terror attacks etc.) I never felt a need for a gun.
I could imagine that you're living in wild west in 1800's
Posted 1 year ago # -
Akilligelisim:
Hunting.. where I live, a small country of 5mill, there are 400 000 registerd hunters. Very accepted thing ( still ) to do here.
Also in the US. Alot of game, and relatively easy to harvest.
Now, the facination about Personel Defense weapons, is mostly an American thing. The west was "won" by the end of a gun.. so they still want the right to carry them, and defend themselvs.
Not that I would want to live in a country where I would need a PD gun myself. But, then again, I just applied in the Green Card lottery, and the first thing I would do, is buy a handgun, just because it would then be my "right" as a citizen. That would never be allowed where I live now.. so its one of the attractions.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@Akilligelisim I live in the woods. 90% of my diet I kill. The .22 is for hares, beaver, grouse, ducks, etc. The .308 is for moose and bear hunting. The .357 I keep strapped to me all the time in case of aggressive bears or humans. I live near a village of 100 drunks and a few wannabe missionaries. Shit gets out of hand sometimes, but it holds true that well armed women make well behaved men.
Posted 1 year ago # -
@Sky: I like the way you think and am eagerly awaiting Google Voice in Canada. For now, Skype works. I do have a cheap, prepaid cell phone and iPod shuffle, but the laptop does take care of most of my at home entertainment/education needs and wants.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think I could stick my husband in a cave in the woods and he'd be happy so long as he had high speed Internet access and enough electricity to run his beast of a gaming computer. Running water or indoor plumbing would be a very distant third! The man's done enough wilderness survival that I don't think the lack of a kitchen or even a bed would really bother him.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't think an electric trimmer is a hygiene requirement if one defines hygiene as a practice that preserves health or prevents disease. Much of my family is Sikh, they are prevented in their religion from cutting their hair and trimming their beards, along with millions of others, and it does not seem to interfere with their health. I think shaving one's beard or head is more of a cosmetic issue.
Sometimes I wish I could wear the white robe that some of the Sikh men wear without being judged as a hardcore religious person (I'm an atheist). Also here in Thailand many monks or more traditional people wear very simple, comfortable, breathable and cheap clothing that does not have tight waistbands. I agree with the main motivations in the Sikh religion for wearing the outfit--to not concern oneself with issues of fashion and instead focus on more important things.
Are clothes without holes in them a "must-have" for people on this forum? I was reading Walden again and Thoreau wrote that a person would sooner walk through town with a broken leg than a hole in his trousers, the latter being more embarrassing. I laughed because that is true in my case and its quite nonsensical that I should have such an emotion.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hah, I have holes in some of my clothes, and it doesn't bother me at all to walk around in them. I live in the USA if that matters... most people probably wouldn't be comfortable doing that, I suppose, but I've never cared.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Interesting question. For business I would never dream of wearing clothes with noticeable holes in a professional environment. On the other hand, when I was doing landscaping, I preferred to wear clothes with holes.
For running errands I wouldn't have a problem with holey clothing, as long as it clean. For social events I wouldn't wear it, unless it was 'outdoorsy' or athletic events.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It depends. As long as I continue working at a place with an unspoken dress code, maintaining a ship-shape weekday wardrobe is a must.
If I really didn't care at all what anyone else thought, I'd wear clothes like Roark described. Some kind of loose fitting monk-like clothes.
Though, that sort of thing attracts negative attention here, and clothes that can "pass" are only very slightly more expensive. In college I wore holey Levis jeans and free T-shirts. Now I repurpose work clothes with holes or permanent stains into weekend clothes. When I'm FI I'll probably switch to patched jeans and second-hand shirts.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I agree with point already raised that many modern appliances replace the older ones. I may have a smartphone, but it replaces a landline phone. Laptop instead of a TV. Kindle instead of paper books. Watch is no longer needed, since I always carry my phone with me. And so on.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I pay extra for jeans with holes in them.
Plus, all cl
Posted 1 year ago # -
@ iPads / schools:
Teachers used to need chalk and their brains; and maybe a typewriter/lithograph (in the mid-90's I still got hand-cranked copies in bluish ink or my Latin teacher's hand-typed quizzes..he ran them in his basement so he wouldn't have to depend on the school's "quirky copiers")
My Mom is an assistant principle at an elementary school in a struggling school district that is going through all the usual; cutting staff, increasing classroom size, forgoing maintenance, etc.. When she got the promotion earlier this year, she was given a brand new iPad because "all the administrators have them". This is in one of the most liberal cities on the West Coast...guess they didn't get the memo about the Foxconn problems or the human-costs of the iPad? Nevermind that they are choosing to equip their staff with useless consumer crap instead of (among other things) feeding their children better school lunches. Disgraceful..
Posted 1 year ago #
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