Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Money Questions

1. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,363

   When will you (or did you) decide to quit and why?

   I'm paying 28% of all income in various income/payroll/ss/medicare taxes (post benefit/deductions). On top of that my expenses associated with this job that wouldn't exist if I were to quit and move are an additional 21% of income. 49% gone, before I can start to save.

   If I cannot either reduce expenses and/or get a fairly massive raise -I quit! I can hardly believe it is is possible, I think I've become institutionalized.

   I wanted to work another year (to get fully vested in retirement matching) but logically I'm not going to drone on unenthusiastically for another year for a 51%.

   Would you? :)

   Posted 1 year ago #
2. 

   LiquidSapphire
   

   Master
   Joined: Jul '11
   Posts: 434

   Interesting question; I'll be following this thread.

   I am not sure when I'll quit, there are a lot of things that I consider, so my date shifts all the time.

   1) What kind of lifestyle do I want to be tooled for upon quitting? I can lead a bare bones lifestyle for about $350,000 in total assets, or I can have a large margin of safety and/or leisure for an additional $200,000.

   2) Other people - my parents have nothing saved, and my boyfriend is in some serious debt. Should I help them now while I still have a huge generator of income, or should I quit, knowing I may not be able to help them later even if I want to?

   3) Semi-retirement - It's really tempting to consider but I would feel like a total tool having to work 3 years in semi retirement to accomplish what I could have accomplished in 1 year at my normal job. But having a plan for semi-retirement that I can live with would up the ERE date.

   To answer your question, how much is the retirement matching worth monetarily? Does it change your FIRECALC results at all? If it's significant, yeah, I'd probably stay, although I'd be a mediocre employee that last year, doing the bare minimum to not get fired.

   Anyway I go back and forth between 2014 and 2017. It seems soooo farrrr awayyyy....at least stocks are coming back a bit which helps give me a small boost.

   Posted 1 year ago #
3. 

   FrugalZen
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Aug '11
   Posts: 270

   I sold out and retired when I finally got totally fed up with a 24/7 business...(towing).

   However I would get used to paying more in Taxes...and possibly a LOT more.

   The binge the government went on is going to have to be paid for...and I have a feeling they may even institute a "wealth" tax like Frances..."The Solidarity Tax On Wealth"...you pay for no other reason than you own it...of course thats true for a number of things in the US they just don't call it a "Wealth" Tax.

   Examples:

   Vehicle Tags...Usually based on weight...more expensive cars tend to weigh more.

   Tangible Personal Property Tax...some states charge this based on the value of the property...usually vehicles and boats and businesses get to pay it on their business assets....so a asset intensive business (say a machine shop will pay much more than a bookkeeper who really only needs an adding machine or computer these days)

   Intangible Personal Property Tax...some states charge this too...usually on Stocks and Bonds and Mortgages you hold (where you are the one getting paid)

   and the big one...

   Property Tax...the more expensive your house or the bigger the piece of land the more you pay anually even though the size of your yard means diddle when it comes to the size of the fire truck the city needs.

   Posted 1 year ago #
4. 

   chilly
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Dec '10
   Posts: 275

   @JohnnyH... what are the details of the vesting? Is it a lump sum that you keep/lose if you stay another period of time, or is it just that 401k matching start at that time? If it's a lump sum, it may be worth it... have to hear more. If they just start matching at that point, I'd write it off.

   Posted 1 year ago #
5. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,363

   Another way took look at this; if annual FT employment savings < X%, then quit.

   Absolute best case scenario, I can increase my net worth with FT job employment savings by 11%... And I'll likely need overtime to even do that. Realistically, based on 3-5 years of data, I'm thinking 8-9%.

   When my max potential annual savings is on par with portfolio fluctuation it feels like I am a fool for working a job I do not enjoy... Time to avoid taxes, work PT, tread water while the portfolio does its job.

   @liquid: I had to fudge numbers to get an answer out of firecalc (FCalc says I'm 100%, wish I could believe that.. also, margin of comfort, like you said) but it is maybe 3%.

   @chilly: I get 6% matching, after 5 years I am 100% vested, in a few months I will be 80% vested...

   I think in some sad, illogical part of my mind believed I would never actually arrive at this juncture... Now it is struggling for survival. Terrified and hopeful, I think I have to quit :)

   Posted 1 year ago #
6. 

   HSpencer
   

   Master
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 770

   @JohnnyH

   Are any of your work related expenses deductible on your 1040?
   What is your financial posture right now "without" the job?
   Will the retirement program be worth your additional year, and I know from reading that chilly already spoke to that. I am not keen towards lump sums, but I sure like "money every month for life".

   Actually, and in a little different manner, I ran up against a similar situation. The bugger bear for me was "income from wages". Income from wages tore up my tax return every year, and drove me into salvation of sorts with a traditional IRA. Myself and wife, finding ourselves in a greater than 30% tax bracket, each opened a Traditional IRA at our bank. We put the maximum allowed in every year. This kept the tax man's hands off quite a bit of our wage money. We have several other sources of income now in our retirement years, but we found income from wages was not worth piling on our tax returns, even with the IRA deposits.
   By quitting our property management salaried jobs in March of 2010, our actual brackets dropped from over 30% to less than 16%. The benefit was we dropped a lot of income we no longer needed, and were able to enjoy just being free and retired. My work week on the property management was hitting 50 to 70 hours a week, plus being on call 24/7. Now my complexes are with a property management company, the third of which we have hired, and none of them worth the powder it would take to blow them away, but at least I have been able to drop my and wife's income from wages. This in turn also reduced my "return to owner" investment income, which also reduced my total tax due.

   My advice would be to get whatever your potential retirement prospects are worth, and exit stage left thereafter. Of course you would need to consider if that retirement potential is immediate or future, and if you think it's worth the year.
   Best wishes

   Posted 1 year ago #
7. 

   jacob
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 3,298

   I guess I didn't. My choices to quit weren't financial as I was already over the crossing point.

   They were not easy to put in one sentence, but let's try anyway: bored on the job, lack of vertical opportunity (as a non-citizen), lots of lay-offs, too cynical about the field (see ERE book on "education"), not really a "doing time until retirement for the paycheck and 'bennies'" personality, not enamored with bureaucracy. However, the real trigger was in being able to effectuate a direct replacement. Like the methadone of job addiction, I got an offer to join a nonprofit startup. I also had that freelance editing job.

   After about a year, I dropped both of these to focus on the blog and writing books. In retrospect, they served as a form of transition. However, at the time, they were more of a replacement(*).

   So the decision was kinda slow and complicated.

   (*) I'm currently looking for things that can serve as a transition away from being the ERE figurehead. I seem to be someone who has a 5-10 year attention span.

   Posted 1 year ago #
8. 

   HSpencer
   

   Master
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 770

   @Jacob

   I see you as firing up the engine on your motorhome, and traveling around to many and various "craft fairs". I see you setting up a booth tent and turning wooden bowls on a foot pumped lathe. I smell fried apple pies and funnel cakes.
   Your DW making cosy knitted caps as a side to your offerings.
   During this time, you will broaden your horizons by meeting a lot of elderly people who have nothing better to do than go to "craft fairs". You will from time to time ask if "any of you know a guy named HSpencer?"

   Posted 1 year ago #
9. 

   FrugalZen
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Aug '11
   Posts: 270

   @Jacob

   Yes I can see Jacob turning bowls on a foot powered lathe (you can get plans for them by the way or take a small commercial lathe and mount it on a Singer Sewing Machine Treadle base...they ARE still available new...see Lehmans).

   I see DW strangling HSpencer (unless of course she LIKES to knit..LOL).

   Posted 1 year ago #
10. 

    Surio
    

    Sorcerer
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 601

    @Spence,
    LOL!

    @FZ,
    Spence got it right. See this: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dws-idea-of-fun-and-christmas-cheer.html

    @Jacob,
    > I seem to be someone who has a 5-10 year attention span.
    I notice that, that's the norm for most polymaths (intellectually gifted people).

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. 

    Hoplite
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 489

    I’ve quit or sold out and started over several times, though quitting my last paid employment years ago had nothing to do with finances. I have a generous and benign tolerance for human failings, but an awfully low limit as to how much crap I’m willing to take. The job passed that limit and I resigned. A friend asked how much money it would take to get me to go back, and I said that I didn’t know what the amount was, but since I did know that Bill Gates didn’t have enough money for that, further speculation would be pointless. I had enough money saved and invested (after immediately and drastically cutting my personal overhead) so I could have gone on without a job, but after a while I became too restless.

    So, back to self-employment, and after years of working and building, I want to pull the plug again though I didn’t fully realize it until this past year. I made good money but it has become an increasingly smaller fraction of revenue, as overhead, taxes and fees have skyrocketed. It got so bad that the IRS audited me for the deductions. Although I could account for every penny of it and had no liability, I agreed with the auditor that the amounts were completely ridiculous :)

    So now, a gradual disengagement. I’ve downsized offices 3 times in the past 3 years and have started turning away business. I got my last employee another job (a good one too) which he promptly quit for greener pastures. When Greener Pastures went toes up a couple of months later, I took him back. He got another job, expansion plans fell apart and he was laid off again. I took him back. He’s now on another job and I hope and pray that third time’s a charm!

    My dilemma is that I can completely retire in place but with no safety margin at all. I could fix this by moving out of NYC, or at least out of lower Manhattan, but I like it here and I am seduced by the fact that I can earn the difference fairly easily. And it is a bit of a trap because I am beginning to loathe at least some parts of my work. It keeps getting harder to face, but then some very interesting work pulls me back. In LiquidSaphire’s words, I feel a bit of a tool :)

    JohnnyH, at 51% at least you are a majority shareholder in your own income. I’m lucky to keep 20% of revenue after costs and taxes. And that doesn’t include lost revenue due to deadbeats and bankrupts. For taxes, just on the income side I pay 5 of them; federal (including double SS), state, city, business (5%) and the Mobility Tax (separate forms, quarterly estimates and timetables for the privilege of living within range of public transportation). I have not included certain state and local income tax flea-shitties that don’t amount to much. All very nice, but this rent-and-tax donkey is getting tired.

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. 

    FrugalZen
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 270

    Mobility Tax...?????

    need to look that one up...never heard of it before..

    must be like "if you build it they will come"...but more along the lines of "if you profit they will tax it"

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. 

    Hoplite
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 489

    @FrugalZen,

    For your viewing horror-http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/mctmt/default.htm

    And for taxes, I was just giving the highlights on the income side. In NYC commercial leases, property taxes are passed through to the tenants as additional rent. This additional rent is then credited towards the threshold for the Commercial Rent Tax of 6% of commercial rent.
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/business/business_tax_rent.shtml
    This alone was enough to trigger partner defections and the eventual collapse of an accounting firm that was my neighbor. The senior partner was a friend, and I let him use my offices and conference room during the dissolution.

    And there is more...much more :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. 

    Hoplite
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 489

    And another favorite of mine, fees and fines. One poor fellow, the relative of a client, opened a small convenience store in the city. Unfortunately, he opened it next door to an off-track betting parlor. The disgruntled bettors would discard their losing tickets in front of his store, and a NYC litter cop would station herself outside the store, giving him a $180 littering ticket every hour (off-track betting was state sponsored, so no tickets for them). He had to hire someone just to stand outside and continually sweep up the discarded betting slips to avoid the fines.

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. 

    GandK
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 271

    We have an exact dollar amount in mind, and expect to hit it in as little as 8 years, as many as 13. G is self-employed and his earnings fluctuate, so we can't nail it down any more than that. In 13 years I hit a certain ideal point in my pension calculations that would immediately land us at FI if we weren't there already. I don't see our plan changing unless my employer goes through cutbacks (unlikely).

    Because our horizon is rapidly approaching, many of our financial conversations now revolve around where to put our savings/investments.

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. 

    JohnnyH
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    Even though taxes and associated costs (49%) are disturbing, I'm starting to focus more on the 8-11% increase in net worth from savings...

    It's no longer worth it. I ran the idea by my nonERE family, and even they agreed.

    I'm not putting myself through uninteresting FT employment for anything less than 15% increase in net/yr.

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. 

    ToFI
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jun '11
    Posts: 75

    7% per year increase in networth, is that all contributed from the job? Don't forget that the earned income pays for your living expense too. If you quit, all of living expense will need to be paid from investment income.

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. 

    makincaid
    

    Novice
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 19

    When I first started saving for retirement, my net-worth basically doubled each year for the first two years. That was very exciting and made it very easy to stay motivated.

    Now, a few years later, I'm saving even more than when I started(as a percentage of income). However, my annual increase is only about 15% of my net worth each year. It does make it a lot harder to stay motivated.

    I often consider giving up the full time job and contracting (engineering) as needed. Why not just let the portfolio grow on it's own? I think I just worry about being able to find a contract job when I need it (especially with the economy).

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. 

    jacob
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,298

    The fun starts when one day of stock market volatility changes your net worth more than one month of salary-saving :) Or when a correction or bear market just reduced your net worth by a year's worth of savings.

    This can/will/might change your investment philosophy away from looking purely at total market value and change it into paying more attention to market valuation. For example, I'd rather have $100,000 in shares when the market is at P/E ~ 10 than $150,000 at P/E ~ 20. While the former has a lower market value, you own more assets/shares.

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. 

    FrugalZen
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 270

    @Hoplite...

    Thats DISGUSTING....and people want to LIVE there????

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. 

    McTrex
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 62

    @Jacob,

    I try to focus more and more on my twelve-month moving average of dividend+interest income versus the twelve-month moving average of spending in order to keep sane.

    Otherwise when I look at our net worth going down I tend to get depressed. Focusing on income reminds me of the opportunity to buy dividend income at a lower price.

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. 

    akratic
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 480

    I plan to quit after two things happen:
    1) my SWR passes my expenses for a few months in a row
    2) I don't feel like working anymore

    It sounds like 2) has already happened for you, and probably 1) as well. So quit! (Better yet: make an outrageous demand of your employer and see what they say. How about letting your employer choose between these options: you quit OR you work 10 hours a week from home for 25% of old salary + full benefits).

    I see lots of people worrying about quitting too soon (and needing more money in the future) but few people worried about quitting too late (and having wasted important years of their lives). If anything, I'm more worried about quitting too late than quitting too early.

    Posted 1 year ago #
23. 

    Maus
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 504

    Like Jacob, I have a 5-10 year attention span. Law has lasted longer than chemistry or theology; but I am fairly bored with most au currant legal topics. I've overstayed my tenure at the non-profit from a misguided hope that I'd be able to crown my career with a stint as Executive Director. But that isn't likely to happen. And the ERE philosophy has helped teach me that such a goal is ultimately illusory and counterproductive.

    When I was younger, I had no fear about leaving a job that no longer held my interest. In my experience, another gig was always mine for the asking. But in the past five years I've actually failed to get offers after the interview (that never happened in my thirties). And the present economic malaise makes any job hunting a dreadful prospect.

    So, I will quit the MINUTE I have my ER capital nailed down. I might transition into part-time self-employment, but only as the training wheels to full-time joblessness and the pursuit of my own interests.

    @Akratic
    I like your idea about the outrageous demand. I may try that this coming January.

    Posted 1 year ago #
24. 

    LiquidSapphire
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 434

    @ Akratic -
    That is an interesting thought, but it would take a LOT for the job unpleasantness to outweigh the stress of wondering if I really screwed myself by quitting early! :) Getting a similar position back would be very difficult. I am pretty sure I will end up overshooting my ERE target by at tens of thousands just to shift the balance here. But I'm sorta chicken like that :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
25. 

    bigato
    

    Master
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 919

    JohnnyH,

    Saying you grow by 8-11%/year by keeping there does not explain much to me to understand your situation. I know that probably you are giving us percentage as a mean to not expose your real numbers; but maybe you can explain it better without using percentage. Maybe you can tell us how many more years of living expenses you will have by working one more year. Even that is not so meaningful. You should look at what that money really means to you; and to what you do could/will do with this money.

    My net worth will double next year; but this is my first year knowing ERE. And the money I will get next year probably is less in absolute numbers than your 8-11%. I've got the feeling you were fooling yourself by looking only into the percentage; I hope not. Another thing that calls my attenting is that you include in your calculations of this percentage the spending you have no way to avoid. This can fool you. It is like looking at wage before taxes. What meaning it could have, unles you have a way to not pay those taxes? The same with your work-related expenses; if you can't avoid them, you don't even put them in your calculations.

    Then, look at these two details and see if them help you: analyse money numbers instead of percentage; and calculate percentages *after* unavoidable expenses.

    The good thing is that if you are having these inner conflicts you are probably very close to freedom.

    Posted 1 year ago #
26. 

    JohnnyH
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    This has been the most difficult decision I can remember making. Many thanks for all the input...

    See this flowchart for my decision process:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/91156/work.jpg
    Ha, just noticed getting a roommate is the same as not, but I would accept a smaller raise if my expenses were less.

    I think I can quit with confidence. Although I wish I felt more confident! ;)

    *4% withdrawal covers my basic post retirement expenses.
    *Dividends and interest are close to covering them.
    *Rental income covers expenses.
    *I plan to work a 20hr/wk job I enjoy, just for new experiences and social interaction.
    *I will continue to consult in my field and attempt to build a business around this.
    *I will continue with rental property real estate.

    +I might have seasonal employment that would be several multiples annual expenses.
    +I might take a FT job again, only I will require either more money, or fewer expenses.
    +I will never spend the saved capital.

    I have felt a tremendous loss of enthusiasm over the last 2 years. I can only hope I can recover my former self. Not following my plan and continuing to mindlessly work would be an act of cowardice.

    @HSpencer: No, no deductions from this job.

    @ToFi: Yes, I am considering expenses. The thing is my expenses could be 25% of what I'm paying here if I moved elsewhere.

    @Akratic: Excellent point. At this point, I feel the year is worth more than I will save... I feel I am running out of years as a young man.

    @bigaot: I felt % more accurately described the situation. The actual $ numbers are deceiving. 10k, 20k, 50k are all large numbers to look at, but as a percentage of the whole they are put into context. And yes, I'm trying to avoid real numbers. It's always seemed crass to me. ;)

    I had an epiphany when I started looking at % of net, rather than large numbers that are hard to get over.

    Also, by not working my tax burden will likely drop to insignificant levels! Atlas Shrugged.

    Posted 1 year ago #
27. 

    chilly
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 275

    @JohnnyH, it sounds like we are at similar crossroads.

    "I have felt a tremendous loss of enthusiasm over the last 2 years. I can only hope I can recover my former self."

    If there isn't something else in your life that is dragging you down (I struggle with this myself... will things actually be better when I retire?), then the fact that you are asking this question makes me think it may be time for you. Your posts and questions make me think you are thorough, intelligent and conservative in your planning (no freewheeling wingnut makes a flowchart like that :) ). If you think you are even close, then again, I think we are in similar boats, and it may just be time to take the risk because the downsides are just too big in the long term scope of things.

    Not to make it about me... but I'm in the 95%+ range conservatively in firecalc. I'd like to peg it at 100%, but I think i've decided that I'm going to pose the part-time question with my employer this winter (I believe it's unlikely to be agreed upon)... then this spring, when my lease is up, I may just do it. I'll be following you're posts for inspiration!

    Posted 1 year ago #
28. 

    BPA
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jun '11
    Posts: 92

    @LiquidSapphire: I feel like the chicken you describe. :)

    I'm close and one of the things about getting close to ERE for me, is a change of residence. I've stayed in my 4 bedroom house for now because it is so close to work, there are no cheaper homes to own within walking distance, and there are no cheap rentals either.

    I have a plan and the next step in it is to downsize the house. I'm less than a year away from my ERE target, but I'm chicken.

    However, I do think it's a good idea to buy a 2 bedroom condo before the Baby Boomers start snatching them up anyway.

    Reading the posts here does help ease my anxiety somewhat. And I am just about ready for the next chapter of my life.

    Gah! I wish I was better for coping with change!

    Posted 1 year ago #
29. 

    JohnnyH
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    I was going to propose part time with my current employer, but after going through the manuals I see that with only 30 hours employment I would still qualify for health insurance and 6% retirement matching.

    So I will be proposing a weekly hour reduction from 40 to 30. And 10 of those 30 will be worked from home. Ideally, I will work 40 hours straight in the office then take the next week off. If this works well, I'll stretch it to 80 hours at work, then 2 weeks at home.

    It's a nice position to be in because I am fairly neutral on the outcome, I'm happy to keep working under these terms and also happy to quit.

    If they say no, I'll list my house for sale and start liquidating many of my possessions. Once I have an acceptable offer in hand for my house, I'll re-present the proposal saying the alternative is my 2 weeks notice.

    Posted 1 year ago #
30. 

    BPA
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jun '11
    Posts: 92

    What a wonderful sense of choice and freedom.

    Good luck!

    Posted 1 year ago #
31. 

    JohnnyH
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    I've pitched telecommute! I really hope they say no, which will make it very easy to put my 2 week notice in... I'll probably continue working for another 5 months, selling off house and many possessions, making plans, taking advantage of health insurance.

    The last 6 months > 70% of my gains have come from investments and activities outside work. Meanwhile 76% of expenses are costs associated with working this job (I'm including various taxes in this figure).

    Continuing work seems almost foolish, but I would continue with an hour reduction for another year or two... Getting close!

    Posted 1 year ago #
32. 

    ICouldBeTheWalrus
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: May '11
    Posts: 104

    @FrugalZen: There is already a "wealth tax" to help the government reduce its debts. It's called inflation. :)

    (Oh, hey, I'm late to this thread.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
33. 

    chicago81
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Feb '12
    Posts: 69

    Thanks for reviving this thread :) I am still about 8-10 years away from retirement (according to my spread sheets/estimates.) -- but I have been giving this a lot of thought lately. (In reality, if I were to accept a truly extreme retirement, I am probably only 4 or 5 years away..) I'm wondering if I'll be able to pull the trigger when it is time, or if I will decide to keep working that additional year or two years, etc. Knowing full-well that my standard of living will be increasing for the rest of my life with every extra pay-check I earn.... however, also knowing that I'll be spending more of my youthful time slaving away (rotting?) in a cubicle.

    I am always very conservative in my estimates and spread sheets.
    I don't assume stellar market performance, and I assume an annual average CPI increase of 2.5% or 3%. I also probably over-planning for large and unexpected expenses. For retirement, I would like to passively generate $2500 of after-tax income per month to cover living expenses (with the assumption of living in a home with a paid off mortgage.) Looking at my past expense tracking, I usually spend around $1800 per month or less (unless I have a moment of weakness, like this past month when I bought an iPad :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
34. 

    Spartan_Warrior
    

    Master
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 501

    @Chicago81: your timeframe and situation sound similar to mine. Right now I've got another 9 years and 8 months according to my spreadsheets, but I could cut this in half if I wanted to be more extreme and/or less conservative. I have a feeling my dilemma will be the opposite of yours--that I'll want out as soon as it's even slightly feasible rather than wanting to stay on to reduce risk/extremeness. Psychologically, emotionally, and pretty much every way but financially, I've been ready to call it quits since last year...

    Posted 1 year ago #
35. 

    Ego
    

    Master
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 750

    We never really did the math. We just decided it was time. We were in our early thirties. Now in our mid-forties we do things that we find interesting and engaging. Not so much for the money as for the life-experience.

    The most important aspect for me was control.... but at the time I didn't know it. I've since read about the Whitehall Study where they found that lower-level employees have higher death rates than their supposedly stress-out supervisors because the grunt-workers have much less control over their day. High stress + control is much more manageable than Low stress - control.

    While I had a good deal of control over my work-day I still yearned for more. I want to spend my day thinking about the things I wanted to think about, not what I was being paid to think about.

    Today I do several different things for money. The simple knowledge that I do not HAVE to do any of them gives me peace of mind.

    Posted 1 year ago #
36. 

    jacob
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,298

    I'd recommend getting to the point of resilience/diversification where the concept of a discontinuous transition---quitting---is no longer considered material.

    A point where one no longer "quits" but just "stops a certain project", which just happened to be one's former dayjob although it's no longer thought of as such.

    Posted 1 year ago #
37. 

    Andre900
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 79

    @Johnny H -- My employer has a formal plan to allow workers to reduce their work hours along with a proportional reduction in pay. Must have a minimum 30-hour per week schedule to qualify for full benefits.

    I just became the third employee in the past four years (out of a workforce of 900) to take advantage of the opportunity. Though, I only take every other Friday afternoon off (1:00 - 5:00), so it's just a reduction of four hours out of eighty work hours, or 5%. Since about 25% of my gross wage goes to income tax and FICA, I'm only losing three hours of take-home pay (but getting four hours off).

    It's really quite delightful. Several of my coworkers tell me they wish they could do the same thing; of course, they can, they just don't want to lose some pay. Also, they can't hide their jealousy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
38. 

    Maus
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 504

    @Andre900
    My work created a similar voluntary furlough day system to address cash flow problems associated with payroll. I surrendered 10% of salary in exchange for 26 days off each year. So every other week, I take a Friday or a Monday and enjoy a longer weekend. When this can be combined with a paid holiday, the four-day stretch is even better.

    The only drawback to this system is that I am constantly bumping up on the vacation-hour cap maximum, since I hardly use vacation days anymore. It is getting to the point where I could take a day off each week and maintain the maximum vacation hours available to me. Last month, the company announced that it is reducing the cap by 80 hours in one year; but they also allowed a one-time cashout of 40 hours. I promptly took them up on that offer to relieve some of the pressure.

    So many other employees (there are only about 45 total) have taken similar furloughs that I am waiting for the day the company rescinds the program due to losses of productivity.

    Posted 1 year ago #
39. 

    Andre900
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 79

    @Maus -- Sounds similar to my company. The reduction-in-hours plan was initiated in 2008 to help lower payroll cost. I, too, find I'm carrying a a high number of vacation hours. I cashed out 40 hours in Dec. 2011 and 40 hours in Dec. 2010, and still carry 120 hours and growing by 9 hours per month!

    I'm waiting for the day that sr. management cancels the program out of envy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
40. 

    ksoto
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 30

    I called it quits many years ago and went sailing for 3 years. After that, back to work but always planning to get out as soon as feasible. And feasible should be in about 10 months. Why then? Lots of things come together around that time. My son will graduate college in a few months and that expense will be gone. I will be eligible for health insurance at very little cost to me. I am really more than ready now. I could have left almost a year ago as I could have gotten on COBRA until the health insurance benefit kicks in. But when I looked at the numbers the extra 18 months of working results in about 100K in extra savings. Cobra expenses plus what I can save and what won't be taken out to live on all adds up.

    But I am ready now so the time is really dragging. After my first retirement which was rather rushed due to unusual circumstances I kind of set in my mind that 2 years would be an optimal time to prepare so I keep busy working on getting rid of stuff, fixing up the house for sale and completing a long term project. I also started working a part time job/business about a year ago just to test the waters and it is working out well.

    Ten more months . . .

    Posted 1 year ago #

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