Early Retirement Extreme Forums

Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Housing Questions

1. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,366

   I think I'm pretty set on living in my parents' house(s) when I retire. At least for the first few years, to boost savings. I'll plan to balance it by living abroad and living with friends for month to month periods. NO YEARLY LEASE!

   Positives:
   + lower, or no rent
   + parents won't be around forever, might be fun in doses
   + economy of scale
   + no lease, deposit, landlord, monthly payments
   + flexibility to move at leisure
   + helps your parents, and increases their enjoyment

   Cons:
   - social stigma, this might be crippling for single males in the US
   - might be awkward hosting friends (more stigma)
   - free time might be harder to establish
   - parents might judge your use of time
   - parents might think you are lazy for valuing your life and not working to pay interest for the bulk of it
   - might demand rent, yet offer none of the benefits of paying rent (like privacy)

   Luckily my parents are very laid back and supportive of my retirement... Except maybe my Dad, who earned his federal pension!;) He is skeptical, but respects me. They have plenty of room, I am invited to live there whenever. They are satisfied to happy with the work I do when I'm at home. Letting me live rent free helped me immensely in college.

   Even a few months out of the year could potentially save thousands. If you had a significant other maybe you could do split the time between parent sets.

   My GF's parents are the opposite, however. They demanded rent, chores, food purchases and favors when my GF was in college... Would be a complete nightmare.

   Anyone else considering living with their parents in retirement?

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   Robert Muir
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 280

   I would rather be homeless. :p

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   jacob
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 3,304

   I've considered it---mostly moving them into the other half of a duplex.

   Whoever doesn't own the place pays rent/helps of though, no hotel/freebies.

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   Q
   

   Master
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 346

   Parents or grandparents. I have fun with family, so no biggie. I think that the time I can spend with my grandparents especially is very important and that is a huge driving factor to leaving my job when the time comes.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   Catherine
   

   Novice
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 22

   I think if you're going to either pay some rent or help out substantially in other ways, fine. If you're just doing it for the financial benefit to YOU though...that's mooching (and then I would say you deserve all the inconveniences that come with it). The arrangement has to be mutually beneficial and everyone has to pull their weight if it's going to work.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,366

   @Jacob: yes, but my parents like their house and are not moving or seller, no matter how I try to convince them!

   They currently have 3 vacant bedrooms + basement and they aren't interested in tenants.

   The house is paid off and they aren't going to sell. They are paying for the house in terms of lost opportunity on capital, but I wouldn't feel like I would be depriving them at all.

   So the only rent to speak of would be taxes and utilities. Taxes maybe $1500/yr, utilities $1800/yr. $92 per person per month is hard to beat for housing + utilities!

   @Catherine: isn't the success of the offspring considered mutually beneficial?... Come on, this is ERE -do you see a lot of lazy, helpless people around?

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. 

   Concojones
   

   Journeyman
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 117

   JohnnyH, I think you're making a mistake, especially if you're still in your twenties-thirties. At least for me it would be a mistake. I tend to get too comfortable/lazy when living with my parents and let them run the household. So there's a cost in personal development that's not worth the savings IMHO. Plus, if you're inventive you can almost rent for free. Rent or mortgage a property, rent out some rooms and you might break even, especially if you manage to "create" an additional room (e.g. rent out an unused room or split a big room in 2).

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. 

   JohnnyH
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,366

   @Coco: I can understand that, my GF does clean more than me... And I agree, once you aren't tied to a job location you can live creatively.

   My parents own a summer cottage as well. They prefer to have a trustworthy person living in their homes if possible... This way I can capture the benefits with little of the concerns that many seem to have here.

   Care taking seems like it would be a fantastic housing solution for the flexible.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. 

   George the original one
   

   Expert
   Joined: Jul '10
   Posts: 1,943

   With the right parents and a good mutual arrangement, sure.

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. 

    Marius
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 258

    @Catherine "If you're just doing it for the financial benefit to YOU though...that's mooching (and then I would say you deserve all the inconveniences that come with it)."

    Ooooh... :-) Is this related to the protestant work ethic? Why do you wish negative things for someone who does something just for the financial benefit? It doesn't sound as if his parents are in financial difficulties. (sorry if my reaction sounds a bit unfriendly, it's not meant to but I don't understand yours)

    @JohnnyH: living with your parents can be an incredibly efficient way to save a lot of money. If they and your GF don't mind, go for it! Enjoy life and eachother!

    Living with parents is probably easiest if you've never lived elsewhere. I'm so used to my independence that it would be very hard to move back in with my folks. (I left to go to college, many years ago)
    One of my friends lived with his parents until he was 40. They seemed to appreciate the company. AFAIK his hobbies, car and travels were his only expenses. He plans to ER by 50.

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. 

    murpheyw
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 55

    My family (wife, son, daughter) are moving back in with my in laws in May 2012. This is the biggest strategy that will enable us to becoming FIRE.

    17 years ago when the wife and I were 19 (after getting married) we moved in with my in laws. Shortly after moving in, I had the opportunity to get an "early out" from the military and jumped on it. I had no job, no bills and I felt the most free in my lifetime.

    The thought of moving back in and having no job again brings up really good memories. This time around we will have funds to contribute to the bills (food and utilities, the house is paid off and taxes are extremely low). To boot, we will spend lots of precious time with my wife's parents who just passed 60 years of age. They are starting to slow down and welcome our return. My wife is really excited to be able to hang out with her mom and points out that she is really lucky that she will have this opportunity.

    My wife's culture/race lends favorably to extended family living arrangements. This may not work if all parties involved posses the typical Anglo Saxon mentality of single family units.

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. 

    MidwestHomebody
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 42

    My mother has been making noises about moving closer to me, so if I get into a house in a year or so, I suppose she can handle her share of the bills, thus enabling my ER to get here sooner. At least I'll have a year or two to make up my mind. I wonder how much duplexes are, hmmmmmm...?

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. 

    The Dude
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 392

    My current set up with my parents (since March) is that I pay for 2/5ths of the living expenses (excluding their car and health insurance). I decided this gives them slightly more advantage to my living there.

    I had bought a reasonable home (but it was still 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage: because you know...it was a good investment for a young single guy and families want the extra space when I sell) a year into my career. Payed religiously for 6 years as I got to watch the rest of the neighborhood go bust and downhill as many must have been over extended or lost their jobs.

    As housing prices fell I realized real estate was like any other investment (unsure) and that I did not want to find myself underwater. The house was the only loan I ever had and I hated it because I knew if I lost my nice job I would not be able to easily pay the bills without another nice job (unless I spent my savings). I also realized that you still pay (where I lived) thousands in property taxes even when you own the home. I decided to sell (for peace of mind, I like knowing I can stop working or change jobs whenever I want) but had to kiss nearly all the equity goodbye to sell in the down market.

    One other thing about homes and private real estate with a mortgage. Unlike stocks or assets you OWN, you can't just unload a house whenever you want if you have a loan on it. You have to be able to sell it for an amount that lets you pay the loan, taxes, realtor fees, various BS safety checks, and titles off (unless you walk away). Also, I imagine states will turn again to higher property taxes to support the absurd spending.

    I have not yet had any regret, but I am pretty resilent against the "stigma" as I am becoming immune to what people call "normal":) My parents are not complaining either as my father is retired. I would rather keep my money in the family and help my parents than add to a bank's bottom line. It also let me feel empowered that I was finally taking some "extreme" action to fullfil my ERE desires:) Now I live off about 13% of my income!

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. 

    il-besa
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 107

    I've considered that, for the same reason that Johnny said, plus my mamma would be really happy to have me there again.

    I may do it for a short period of time (few months) if I can rent my house for good money...

    Ciao
    D

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. 

    Catherine
    

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 22

    I guess in my first post I was reacting somewhat to the tone of the original posting, which did come off as expecting that one's parents should always be thrilled to have their offspring back in the nest, regardless of how the offspring were contributing to the household well-being and maintenance. Specifically the mention that the GFs parents were expecting rent, chores, etc. from her when she lived at home and that this was a "nightmare". Like, wow, you are an adult member of a household and you aren't interested in contributing to it? Sounds like looking for a free ride to me. Perhaps it was not intended to come off as sounding entitled, but it kind of did. I get from later posts that JohnnyH probably would be providing some services to his parents (acting as a caretaker to a second property, etc.), so perhaps my interpretation of the first post was off.

    However, I do think if you're planning to live in someone else's house, relative or otherwise, you need to be willing to pull your weight in some way (doesn't necessarily mean handing over a lot of rent $$...there is a lot of stuff that goes into a home other than money) otherwise it will eventually breed bad feeling between the parties involved.

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. 

    KevinW
    

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 577

    My only concern is that, when you're paying well below market rates for a big expense (rent), it becomes difficult to know whether you are really financially independent or not. Arrangements like this don't always last forever so you may need to go back to paying rent again. It would be unfortunate if you move out later and it turns out your investment income can't cover rent at market rates. If it were me I would build up my portfolio until it could cover rent with a healthy margin for error.

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. 

    mfalcon
    

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 5

    Hi JohnnyH, I think that's your decision. List all the advantages and disadvantages and see the result.

    I live with my parents and brother(I'm 24, he's 16). Luckily, my parents have a well established bussiness so it would be pretty the same(economically) to have me in the house or out of it. They don't want me to leave the house and I too don't want lo leave it, I'm very comfortable here. Some people tries to discourage me saying that I'm taking advantage of them or some things like that. Who cares?, I work of what I love, study what I love to study and live how I want lo leave, nothing else matters.

    The only disadvantage I thought about is the one KevinW mentioned. I can't determine accurately my ERE level, because I'm not in the field. But I've a friend who's living alone so I can get a pretty good estimate.

    Conclusion, do what you think it's the best not only for you, all the people involved have to be happy with the decision.

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. 

    JohnnyH
    

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,366

    On one hand, a lot of CHILDREN likely take advantage of their parents. Clearly... but this is not my case, and I would doubt it applies to many here. This isn't a MMORPG forum, people here know how to THRIVE independently.

    I think it can only work when the parties respect each other. My parents respect me as an adult... I take care of myself and then some. Thus, I am entitled to my own time and will. They make no demands of me... If they need help they ask, and I am glad to help. We help and enjoy each other.

    Problems arise (as with my GF) when there is not mutual respect. GF's Mom was convinced that she was being victimized or taken advantageous of. She responded with unreasonable demands to time and labor and eventually started charging rent as well. If it's a free market economy and rent is being charged then IMO other demands shouldn't be made... Does your landlord tell you to put down the book immediately and go tidy up?

    The end result of that situation was GF moved out, choosing to pay 30%+ more in rent to a stranger and take additional students loans rather than deal with her parents' insecure demands... Now the room is [happily?] used for junk storage.. Not sure what that says ;0... However, they do get along quite well now, go figure.

    Isn't it sad that parents are being told they're foolish for not treating their family as they would a stranger on craigslist? Aren't you allowed to pass your success to your family without being made to feel the fool for "leaving money on the table?" I would rather help my children when I am alive to see rather after I am dead.

    In more traditional cultures it's a joy to have a multi-generational home. Here, if money isn't involved one party MUST be being taken advantageous of!... Maybe this is why so many end up in nursing homes here!;)

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. 

    HSpencer
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 770

    I cut a deal with my kids.

    They won't live with me when they are 30.

    I won't live with them when I am 80.

    It works well. Everyone is happy.

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. 

    Checking Carly
    

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 27

    I know I couldn't do it... my parents would drive me nutty within a week.

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. 

    Kevin M
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 211

    The closest I could come is a duplex with the parents in the adjoining unit. I like my own space and am willing to pay for it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. 

    Q
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 346

    The cultural difference is how many people in those cultures save money. When you have 3 generations living together and pooling earnings, it works.

    Nothing wrong with it at all. Sometimes it can be hard, and although I moved out early on, moving back in is much more of a chewable idea nowadays.

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. 

    The Dude
    

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 392

    @HSpencer

    That sounds nice...but are they past 30 yet? Did you help them launch (of course you did...even if it wasn't with hands on cash). Wouldn't it be nice to know they are with you at any age? I think this is a status quo response. Until your kids give you back more than you provided, there is nothing wrong with a little assistance after you are 80! Especially with my assumption, that the average kid today leaches much more than they ever repay. Myself included! but I am doing my best to never be a burden.

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. 

    Concojones
    

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 117

    In my previous post I mentioned the benefits to one's personality, but for me personally, there's more. Living on my own brings me the satisfaction that I'm building something all by myself and wasn't just gifted it.

    The reason I didn't mention it is that I realize not everyone may feel that way.

    Posted 2 years ago #
25. 

    Bytta
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 55

    We do have names for adult children living with their parents:
    KIPPERS: Kids In Parent's Pockets Eroding Retirement Savings.

    And some parents revenge with style creating a new subculture:
    SKI: Spending Kids' Inheritance.

    I don't think living with parents is as simple as 'if I pay you money/rent, then we'll all be ok'. With mine, personality difference is a big issue and I know they have high expectations when it comes to their children (or everything else, really). So, no, thank you. I love them, but living with parents will drive me nuts. My sanity is worth a lot more than the savings made (or any amount of money really).

    Posted 2 years ago #
26. 

    InterfaceLeader
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 30

    It really boils down to your relationship with your parents. If it's all fine, then why not? If there are unresolved issues, and being there makes you feel dependent, or makes them feel exploited then better move out. There are other options. I'd rather rent a room from a long-term friend I think (they charged me less anyway!)

    Posted 2 years ago #
27. 

    Don Emanuel
    

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 90

    I'm going to live with my parents in ER, its a small multi-family house. The aim from the beginning was to avoid debt, so there is no guilt in using it.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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