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Mini-Farming

(15 posts)
  1. Felix

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 405

    I'm planning on buying about 750 squaremeters of land and a small house on top of it in some cheap village in Germany and start a farm there with potatoes, vegetables, chickens and a pond with carps. I've bought some books on that and it seems for those aiming to go self-sufficient fast - like myself - this is one of the fastest options. I plan on planting low-maintenance plants like fruit trees, nut bushes etc. for the future and can probably automate a lot of the other tasks.

    The benefit of this "investment in nature" is that the yield of my land is independent from forex/stock market fluctuations, etc. as it is decoupled from the rest of the economy.

    It's weather-dependent to some degree, but I plan on having some backup money anyway.

    You have housing and food covered, anything else you might need you can get in the village. A small plot of land with a small hut can be had for about 20.000€ in several places. I'm willing to put in the work on the farm.
    I'll probably work for another two years while I prepare the farm in term of setting up the plants etc. and have saved around 100.000€ by then on top of the farm.

    I think this plan is feasible, but would like to have some input.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. simplex

    Apprentice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 83

    Hi Felix,

    it is probably doable in Germany, because if you go broke you will get social security with health insurance.
    But I would consider the social environment first: Are willing (able) to live in a small village where people probably will look upon you because of your lifestyle? How can you meet/make friends?
    Also I think 100k a bit meager for Germany if you have costs relating to (occasional) travel, health care or emergency repairs to your home. Even I think you have some fixed costs to pay each month like: garbage collection, property taxes, fire insurance, health insurance, ... . These costs alone I reckon nearly take the yield on your 100k.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. DutchGirl

    Master
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 481

    As a farmer's daughter: be sure to learn a lot about plant diseases and about what plants need so that they grow well (minerals and stuff). Also be aware that some kind of soil supports other plants than other kinds of soil. Perhaps ask around in the area with the farmers, what grows well and what doesn't. This sometimes can also depend on what race you get, so there are thousands of different races of potato, and some grow well on sandy grounds while others do better in clay.

    My father's a professional farmer in the Netherlands and has been for over 30 years. Two years ago he made 2000 euros in a whole year. Yes, that was due to weather problems, but also due to the fact that food prices are so low, so that whatever he puts in (in terms of work and seeds and minerals and stuff) isn't repaid by what he can sell at the end of the year.

    You're growing on a very small scale and thus you lose a lot in efficiency.

    So if you do this, please make the calculations on how much it will cost you and how much you will get, on average. It may be the case that buying in the supermarket is cheaper than growing food, yourself. Or, at least, that buying SOME of the food is cheaper in the supermarket than growing it yourself.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. bigato

    Master
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 926

    Man, you just can't go wrong. Land will at least keep its value if you buy it cheap. Just be sure to have money enough to buy food if you need. Lots of simple people in the world lives their whole lives in the country. In small cities is much easier to make friends. Growing food is not rocket science. I would recommend starting trying a little bit of it now, if possible. It could be some plants on pots like Jacob is doing. You will learn that it is not hard work. Growing food small scale for a family is easy and fun. My grandma still grows her vegetables and is 85 years old already. You also don't have to grow everything, do what you can. What is hard is getting money from selling food, because of the competition of low price of agrobusiness. But if you have your needs covered by invested money AND you can try to cover your needs from nature, it is a pretty fail safe situation. You are relying on social capital (money) or individual capital (skills) and nature. Double coverage.

    In fact, that is almost exactly my plan, except that I am in another part of the world. What I am doing is that I am stocking money for FI and after that will stock a little more for buying the land. I am not counting on the food I will grow. If you can, try to buy some land where you could get wood for construction, building furniture and for a wood stove.

    You don't have to pay for garbage collection as you will compost your organic waste, and recycle most of the rest. The best fire insurance is a well built house and you having the skill to build another one if needed be. You can repair your home using mostly materials you get from nature. You can make bricks from earth. You can build with wood. The rest you buy, you will not be able to stop getting money. Any skill you have yield you some money. If you need some more, you just freelance a little bit. If you have money for the basics, the rest is easier.

    Health insurance is a more polemic issue but I say that you just can not insure you health by paying money. It is not possible. Some things money will not buy. Like a black belt and your health. So a health insurance plan does not insure health. It would be better if called a disease insurance plan, as in most cases it will be useful only if you do not take good care of your health. For those thinking about accidents and some other extreme situation not related to health (but related to lifestyle, but granted, you can not avoid everything), there are plans that cover only very big expenses, not the small ones, and that are said to be much cheaper. I do not know about the availability of those in your place.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. simplex

    Apprentice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 83

    @bigato Garbage collection, sewer charges, fire insurance = mandatory in Germany. Also emergency repairs may require to adhere to building codes and can be expensive. So there a quite some differences from Brazil.

    But the advantage of Germany is that you can try, and if you fail you get social security (or you have to go back to work).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. LonerMatt

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 168

    Look into Bio-Intensive farming and Permaculture, you can definitely grow enough for yourself!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. JasonR

    Master
    Joined: Feb '11
    Posts: 334

    Sepp Holzer FTW via Jacob: http://www.richsoil.com/sepp-holzer/sepp-holzer-permaculture.jsp

    Growing up around the Amish I helped out on some farms and apparently, it's serious business. It's fairly intense and seeing 35yo guys who look 50+ because of sun/animal/labor damage hastened me toward desk work. Have you done farm work before? I don't know what's involved in a small self-sufficient operation, but farm work is no joke.

    Seems like Germany is a proud parent to all it's citizens with it's ample fees and mandatory charges. Can they also come rezone your land and put highway through it?

    Forgot about this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBspR2p0YYM&feature=player_embedded

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. S

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 288

    I'm staying on a small organic farm right now, and keeping it going is definitely a full-time activity. I am impressed with how much food is being produced on about 3 acres. It's enough to feed 4 adults daily supplemented with spices, rice, pasta, and cheese from the grocery. There's enough left over to preserve for winter, sell at the farmer's market, and sell to local restaurants. It seems very doable if you don't mind putting in the work from dawn to dusk most days. Scooping cow pies in the heat is more pleasant than programming to me at this point, but I'd worry after a while the novelty would wear off and it'd be just like another job.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. bigato

    Master
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 926

    You may also consider moving to a country that put less burden on you.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. FrugalZen

    Journeyman
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 270

    Three books you want to look at.

    "One Straw Revolution: by Masanobu Fukuoka

    "Square Foot Gardening"

    "Cash From Square Foot Gardening"

    There are also websites for them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Surio

    Sorcerer
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 601

    > It's fairly intense and seeing 35yo guys who look 50+
    > because of sun/animal/labor damage hastened me
    > toward desk work.

    This is likely due to a combination of hemisphere + melanin than anything else.

    Farmers out here in India look fine, are pretty rugged and are functionally very very fit (no exaggeration there). I've seen them handle 80kg bags of rice like I handle a 20kg suitcase :-\

    Also, the farm work is divided in batches. You'll rarely find farmers slaving it away in the mid-day sun. It is early morning until 10-11 AM, then it is indoors work and siesta until 3PM and back at it until the Sun comes down (but reach safety before the mosquitoes eat you ;-))

    As ERE wannabes, perhaps it is high time we looked at simple solutions such as these in new light and respect.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conical_Asian_hat

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. bigato

    Master
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 926

    Felix, reading your post again I saw you mention 750 square meters. I would go for at least 1.000 square meters for each person, not including a lake nor trees for wood. Of course you can grow intensive on less space, but then you will need to bring organic material from outside.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. frugalinCalifornia

    Apprentice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 37

    @JasonR - I just saw a special on TV on the Amish last night. They said kids start having chores to do at 3 and there really is no free time for anyone. They all basically work from sun up to sun down ploughing fields, fixing the barn, preserving food, feeding animals, etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. sky

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 196

    What areas of Germany are inexpensive? I thought real estate was very expensive when I lived there.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Felix

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 405

    Hi guys. Thanks a lot for all the replies. This is now sort of my backup plan of self-sufficiency for when the shit actually hits the fan and the economy will go belly up, which I find more and more likely with each passing year.

    While I generally share bigato's optimism, I still like to play it safe and maximize my options. The replies by Simplex and DutchGirl made me think that I should probably get a better foundation than I have now. I'll read the suggested books and learn how to do this and keep some money in my back pocket. :-)

    @sky, there are some areas that are cheap. Eastern Germany in general is cheaper, but you also find cheap real estate in rural areas. It gets a bit more expensive now that interest rates for real estate buys are really low, but still you can find some good deals.

    I had hoped that 750 square meters are enough for me. I have this book, where a guy basically feeds his family of three on 1/4 acre:
    http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Farming-Self-Sufficiency-Brett-Markham/dp/1602399840

    But he does use external resources in the book.

    I think I'll work for a few more years to build a bigger nest-egg and then reconsider my options. In the meantime, I will start gardening in pots on my terrace to see how far I can get there and get some experience under my belt.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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