Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Introduce Yourself

Proj's intro and log

(14 posts)
  1. proj

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 22

    I’m a 24 year old guy from Scotland, and I’ve known about this site for a couple of years and I lurk on the forums from time to time and I started posting a wee while ago so figured I should introduce myself properly. I’ve recently taken a more active interest in the idea of extreme early retirement as I’m finally starting to figure out what I want to do with my life and realising that it is to have the time and freedom to pursue my large and ever-growing set of interests, experience the world, and generally enjoy myself without being tied down geographically or financially. Or in other words, yes, “to travel lots and be awesome, as most people in their 20s want to”, to paraphrase one of Jacob’s recent blog posts ;). I don’t yet have an exact plan or goal amount or target age, I’m still trying to figure a lot of this stuff out, but in any case the earlier I start the better so once I do know what my concrete goals are I’ll be well prepared to reach them.

    While I’m keen to save plenty money and eliminate unnecessary spending, I’m trying to find a balance between enjoying my life now when I’m young and in my prime, and enjoying my life later, so I may not be able to go to as extreme measures as some ERE people and as such I accept that the journey will take me a bit longer because of that. Unless I get a very highly paid job or move somewhere cheaper or come up with a great business idea or get lucky on speculative investments or win the lottery or make it big as a musician, a full-on early retirement in 5 years is looking unlikely, but I’d be quite happy with a semi-retirement situation where I only work some of the year or do some part-time/freelance work for a few years. And the last two ideas are a joke; I don’t buy Lottery tickets and I play extreme metal music.

    I should mention that I’m an odd one out here - an ENFP - although I can happily spend hours working on solitary activities before feeling the need to be around people, and I also suffer from shyness (currently working on that of course!) so I'm probably often mistaken for an I. I guess I have the best, and worst, of both worlds :).

    I've always been fairly sensible with money and I've been saving since a young age, had it drummed into me by my parents and now I'm grateful for it :). Now I guess I'm just getting more organised about the whole thing.

    My progress so far:
    - Made a proper budget. As I say I was never a big spender, but this was very revealing and made me think a lot more about where my money is going and whether each expense is actually adding value to my life. As a result I've already made some cuts, such as eating more cheaply, using the bus less often and walking or cycling instead, and...
    - Started drinking less. Sacrilege for a Scot perhaps, but the cost of these pints really adds up, and I need to learn to be confident, interesting, and fun without the aid of booze.
    - Started saving regularly every month rather than just every so often when my bank balance happens to look high.
    - Moved to a different bank get better interest rates and benefits.
    - Got a new job. Slightly higher salary, more progression opportunity, more to learn, more enjoyable.

    I very much feel like I’m at the bottom of the ERE mountain - my savings, while impressive for my age especially as most of my friends don’t have savings, are a small fraction of any realistic goal amount, and my savings rate isn’t going to get me there very quickly. My current plan is pretty much to keep doing the career thing for at least the next few years, try to reduce my spending more, keep thinking about ideas for side income and career advancement, and keep solidifying my plan and goals.

    Shorter term goals for the moment:
    - Reach a 50% savings rate. 75% still seems unrealistic, but 50 would be a good start.
    - Learn more about investing.

    I'll probably use this topic as a log and update it in future with more detail.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. m741

    Master
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 733

    Good luck!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. ermine

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 5

    You're doing pretty well if you can get to a 50% savings rate at 24 because to some extent your costs are raised because you are accumulating some stuff to set up a household. F'rinstance I haven't had to buy furniture of pots and pans for ages, but had to when I started living independently.

    Where you do have a great advantage is the chance to avoid lifestyle inflation, starting that as early as possible pays endless dividends, and a lot of damage is done to many people's lifestyle costs in their twenties. I didn't have a car in my 20's because I lived in London, and it saved me no end of money. London wasn't so shockingly expensive to live in compared to the rest of the UK then.

    So good luck - achieving a 50% savings rate will be an awesome start!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. proj

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 22

    Thanks for the support!

    I don't have the "accumulating household stuff" excuse unfortunately; I live in furnished, rented accommodation and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, so apart from the occasional kitchen or bedroom item the spending there is minimal.

    Monthly earnings from my job are around £1550; my housing costs (rent, council tax, bills) come to around £440 (which is fairly cheap for where I live), and add £100 for food (and that's if I cook all my meals and rarely/never eat out) and that's already over a third spent. The rest is a combination of small life and hobby expenses, and travel -- mostly to music festivals in Europe and to go snowboarding. I'm probably going to cut back on the snowboarding and travel next year. It's hard to justify spending all that money just for a few days or a week away. Between that and drinking less I should be able to comfortably make it into 50% territory.

    Completely agree about lifestyle inflation, it's an easy trap to fall into once you finish studying and get a "grown-up job". I'm quite happy living like a student, so if I start earning more in the future my expenses should stay constant and I'll be able to save more. And with the job market as it is, being fully aware that I could be fired tomorrow and spend the next few months unemployed, as happened to me last year, has stopped me from being tempted into an expensive lifestyle.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. proj

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 22

    Update...

    The fun part - numbers! I looked through old bank statements and worked out that during the 9 months I was at my last job, my average savings rate was 31% - not bad considering I wasn't doing any serious tracking or expense cutting, and I was earning a bit less than now! Last month I saved 43%, which is good but I'll wait to see the averages after a few months.

    This month I'm doing some more detailed tracking to see exactly how much I'm spending on food etc..

    I've been reading a lot recently. My local library has a surprisingly good choice of books on finance and investing.
    - The Elements of Investing - short book on investments, just covers the basics really.
    - Brilliant Investing - slightly more detailed book, and with a UK focus, again covering the basics.
    - Think and Grow Rich - bit of a slog and dated but the message seems good.
    - Your Money Or Your Life - much of it is preaching to the choir after reading ERE, but their perspective is good and their idea of considering expenses in terms of not only money but also time certainly strikes a chord with me.
    - Vagabonding - about low-budget long-term travel, for education and inspiration for the future.
    - How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World - checked this out after seeing it recommended in a few places. Good book about how to live and enjoy your life, and it echoes a lot of the things I was already thinking, particularly that you're better off changing your actions than trying to change the world and other people.

    Still to read:
    - The Intelligent Investor - the classic
    - Fail-safe Investing - to get a better understanding of the Permanent Portfolio ideas. Can't find this at the library but I can probably buy it from Amazon Marketplace and sell it at the same price later.
    - Practical info regarding stocks+shares ISAs, which shares/ETFs to go for, how much money to invest and when, etc..

    Plan for the next few months: read all that, set something up, keep tracking my spending, accept that it's going to be a good few years before I can enjoy the fruits of my labour, so keep focusing on other areas of life (social skills, work, hobbies, etc.) and enjoying my 9-5 life as much as I can.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. JohnnyH

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,365

    Checkout googlebooks for Fail Safe Investing... I was able to read most of it over a few days.

    Actually I found the book a disappointment as far as the PP is concerned, only a few pages. Checkout crawlingroad for much more complete info on PP.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Shandi76

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 111

    Welcome to the forum Proj. Good to see a fellow Scot here :-)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Aleutian

    Novice
    Joined: May '11
    Posts: 21

    Our situations sound similar - I live in the north of England (so not far away!), similar age, income and savings rate. See my journal for more info. Good luck mate!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. proj

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 22

    Cheers guys. I had a look Aleutian, aye we do seem to be in similar situations, and I see you also enjoy the Halifax reward account - it's not much but free money is always nice! And you get an extra 0.2% on their savings rates if you have the current account; again not much but it's something. Good luck to you too!

    JohnnyH: I couldn't read any of the book on Google Books, it said "no preview available", am I missing something? I've done plenty reading on Crawling Road at least so I have quite a good understanding.

    I set up a "fantasy portfolio" and created a fund-based Permanent Portfolio - probably the most boring use for a fantasy portfolio ever, but I just wanted to see what it's actually like to invest. A few days later I'm down £250 - I realise that's mostly fees and a bad week in the economy, and it's good for me to get used to seeing the value of my money fluctuate. For my real portfolio the fees will be lower if I choose cheaper funds (including no-fee index funds, I believe the HSBC FTSE All-share etc. don't cost fees to invest in? Still trying to figure all this out!) and use the Interactive Investor "portfolio builder" function to make planned purchases at £1.50 - I guess the possible price difference at the time the purchase executes isn't a big deal for a buy-and-hold strategy.

    Anyway my investment research continues, I still need a bit more convincing about whether to go for the PP or go for something a bit sexier since I'm young and can afford to take some risks and the stock market is so low right now. Or both - establish a PP-type thing soon then make more exciting investments at a later stage when I have a bit more cash to throw around. So more reading for now!

    Another psychological barrier is simply that of putting all that cold, hard cash that I've saved up over the years into what basically seems like bits of paper or metal that go up and down in value. Logically it makes sense, especially considering that holding it in cash basically is an investment and a very low-return one at that and cash is also just bits of paper and metal, but I guess that's the flip-side of my frugal upbringing - being reluctant about doing stuff with big amounts of cash.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. proj

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 22

    End of September update:

    Income: 1,708.04
    Saved: 900
    = 53% savings.

    Income was a bit higher than usual as I sold one of my guitars, but spending was also a bit higher thanks to a dentist visit (including a fee for missing an appointment a few months ago, money down the drain right there!) and renewing my home contents insurance (renewal quote was for over £150, I got a new quote for under £60 and with £20 cashback, from the same company!). I also could have saved a bit more but I want to keep some cash around for the next few weeks - it's getting into the peak touring season for bands so there's going to be a few shows I feel are worth paying for, and we're due a gas and electricity bill soon and I don't think it's going to be pretty, given recent price hikes and energy-inefficient flatmates. I'll try to look into reducing this cost by changing providers and/or signing up for the monthly direct debit package. So overall I think I'm doing pretty well, but I'll wait to see the averages in a few months' time.

    I tracked my spending pretty closely, YMOYL style. I've reduced my alcohol spending by half, but my food spend is still a bit on the high side, mostly due to not always being able to bring lunch to work, and a couple of nights where I gave into the temptation from living near some of the city's finest kebab shops. The first requires more organisation and planning to work round the fact that I'm often not at home for long enough to cook on weekday evenings, and the latter is fine as an occasional treat once a month or two but any more than that is a bit much.

    On the investment front: still learning, not had loads of time to read recently. I had a discussion with my parents and my Dad made a very good point: with the amount of time and effort it takes to research and keep on top of investing, you'd be as well just getting a part-time job, and at least that way you'd be guaranteed to get some money for your efforts. It did make me think that perhaps I should spend a bit of time considering freelancing or side business ideas as well as or instead of investments.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. DutchGirl

    Master
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 480

    "My Dad made a very good point: with the amount of time and effort it takes to research and keep on top of investing, you'd be as well just getting a part-time job. "

    I think your Dad's wrong here. You have to "learn" how to invest one time (now), and then you "know" how to invest forever... Perhaps you need to keep reading up on it in the future, so perhaps you'll spend some more hours each year to stay up to date with the latest rules, tax regulations and investment options.

    If you "know" how to invest you will save more money and make more money. Maybe with a portfolio of 10,000 pounds that doesn't make much of a difference, but in the future you will hopefully manage a 100,000 pound portfolio or more, and then every 1% you make more is 1,000 pounds. Not bad for a few hours of work back in 2011 and a few hours more work each year...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. proj

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 22

    I haven't been on here much recently and I realised I haven't written my October update, so...

    Income: 1,557
    Saved: 915
    Rate: 59%.

    Not bad. In fact I was very pleasantly surprised by the gas and electricity bills. Hopefully they won't go up too much over the winter; the flat's quite warm and we haven't felt the need for heating yet.

    I've been a bit lazy with tracking food spending and that sort of thing recently, I have a big pile of receipts waiting to be entered in my spreadsheet, but it's not been unreasonable. Overall I'm not doing too badly considering I've been to a few gigs and on a few big nights out. Of course the Christmas season, which also happens to be the main birthday season, is coming up, so I'm sure there'll be plenty temptation to spend.

    My flatmate's boyfriend is moving in next month which will reduce our monthly expenses a fair bit - that should allow me to save another couple of hundred each month! Also, my parents are considering investing in a flat and renting it out to me at a very reasonable rate (although still more than I'll be paying once the flatmate's boyfriend moves in), which would give me some of the benefits of having my own place without the drawbacks (mortgage, being tied down) and be an income-producing asset to help fund their retirement. While my current situation is more appealing in the short term (I like living with other people and I get on very well with my flatmates, it'll be a bit cheaper, and I doubt my parents could afford a place in as good a location), their offer probably makes more sense in the long term since I don't know how long the current situation will last or if it will stay good.

    Investing: still no action on my part, and I've been reading a bit although it's just not a big priority out of all the things going on in my life. I read "A Fool And His Money", which seems quite pessimistic regarding the prospects of the average investor but is more just a story of what not to do, and an entertaining one at that, I didn't expect a book about investment to make me laugh out loud. I'm now reading a book published by the Financial Times called "How the stock market really works" which is very informative and up-to-date.

    I've been at my job for long enough to qualify for the pension scheme now - contributions of up to 4% of my pre-tax salary to a pension fund (similar to a 401k I think? - tax-free but can't be accessed until I'm 55) are matched by my employer and the taxman. Since it's basically free money it's an obvious decision, and worth having as a top-up/backup for when I reach traditional retirement age even if I retire far earlier.

    Finally got round to reading Mr Money Moustache, there's some good stuff on there about his story and I like his thoughts on part time work and self-employment, some good ideas for future semi-retirement.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. Country Hopper

    Novice
    Joined: Sep '11
    Posts: 13

    Great to see a couple of fellow Scots on here. I'll be following your progress with keen interest even though I'm no longer in the UK. Seems like you have made a very solid start with the savings percentage rate and gradually ramping that up over time will set you up nicely for whenever you are confident enough to start making your money work for you.

    Currently I'm playing with the idea of going down the dividend reinvestment route but the sticking point for me is that most attractive companies offering DRPs are traded in USD opening me up to the EUR/USD fx rate fluctuations so there is more to consider.

    Anyway, all the best and keep us posted

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. ExpatERE

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 219

    Awesome job on that savings rate! What I wouldn't give to have been smart enough to start down this path at 24. Looking forward to reading about your progress.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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