Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Money Questions

PP questions

(31 posts)
  1. jennypenny

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 1,338

    I've been looking at PP theory for a few months. I like the basic concept. I've never liked the idea of being overly exposed in growth areas before retirement and overly invested in stagnant areas after retirement. ER/ERE implies living much longer on the portfolio so to aim to moderately beat inflation just won't work long term.

    That said, I have 3 questions for those of you implementing this kind of strategy.
    1. How long did you take (are you taking) to reallocate your portfolio? If you reallocate quickly, don't you end up buying at least one sector at an overinflated price? (like if you bought a lot of gold right now) But if you spread the reallocation over the 5 year timeline toward ERE, you don't have any indication how your final portfolio will perform until after you retire. That seems a little risky.
    2. Do you plan to change the 25/25/25/25 as you get older? Or would you just change to safer instruments within the categories? I could see switching to index funds when I'm much older and no longer interested or capable of actively managing my investments.
    3. How do you avoid chasing the trends for better returns? If the stock market falls to 8,000 in the next 6-12 months, will you be able to resist investing more in stocks? People who invested between 6,500 and 8,000 last time did really well.

    We have about 1/3 of our funds rolling out of something this winter, so I have to figure out what to do with that money by November. It's a unique opportunity for us to rethink our investment strategy--especially now that I've read ERE and we've stopped drinking the kool-aid. I'm curious about everyone's thoughts here. Most of the advice I've gotten from colleagues and people at Vanguard is (usually) solid but based on a very narrow, traditional view of retirement.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. KevinW

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    1) I reallocated all at once. Part of the PP ethos is that it's impossible to know which asset is about to go up or down, so you hold all of them always. Note that gold has been "obviously overpriced" since 2008 if not earlier and yet has continued to climb. It will probably go down but there's no telling whether that will be tomorrow or in 100 years. It's impossible to predict these things.
    2) I don't plan on reallocating on the basis of age. But if I continue saving after reaching FI, I may put those excess funds into a variable portfolio of stocks. So my portfolio may actually become more aggressive over time.
    3) The mechanical rebalancing rules handle this. In general, the more thoroughly you understand the PP, the easier it is to be disciplined about following through on rebalancing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. KevinW

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    I recommend that anyone seriously considering the PP read/listen to *all* of these sources:

    "Fail Safe Investing", book: http://www.amazon.com/Fail-Safe-Investing-Lifelong-Financial-Security/dp/031226321X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312390007&sr=1-1 , PDF: http://www.trendsaction.com/books/HarryBrowne/FailSafeInvesting/index.php

    Crawling Road blog: http://crawlingroad.com/blog/

    Sticky threads in the Gyroscopic Investing forum: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/index.php

    Harry Browne radio show archives: http://crawlingroad.com/blog/podcasts/

    It may seem like a lot, but consider that your livelihood is at stake, and once set up a PP takes about 1 hour/year to maintain. Practically all the questions that arise are answered in one of those places. And practically all of the proposed improvements I've seen are based on a superficial understanding of the PP and are ill-advised.

    The PP is outwardly simple but is based on a deep and nuanced understanding of macroeconomics, monetary policy, human nature, and political history. I don't think someone is qualified to tinker with the PP until they've digested all those materials.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. JohnnyH

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    1) I was apprehensive at first. I started with a 40% of net PP trial. This trial lasted 5 months before my first rebalancing, which was triggered by gold hitting 30%. PP made about 7%:). At which point I put probably 80% of net into PP. Actually, more because I am margined to 160% taking advantage of low margin rates.. Volatility was lower than anything I'd done before, fairly stress free. Now I'm somewhat of a PP evangelist, it really is brilliant in its simplicity and effectiveness. Harry Browne had a great mind.

    PP works great while your savings rates are high, because you usually don't have to sell anything, simply buy more of everything else when you rebalance. Which will help push any capital gains into long term.

    2/3) I do not plan to change the 25% allocation size or the instruments I use... I'm not sure it would work with tweaked allocation size, and would add needless complication. PP is somewhat flexible however. Here's what I do:
    *25% equities: of this I have ~35% foreign equities. More volatile, but Harry Browne said some was acceptable.
    *25% gold: I started using ~20-30% silver for this allocation. Harry Browne advised against this... But, I had the silver, so I did it. This added gains for me recently, but also much volatility.
    *25% currency: In an attempt to counteract USD risk (what all my future paychecks are in) I started using ~30% of the cash allocation in foreign currency. This lowered the volatility and increased the interest yield... It probably would have lowered the performance during a market crash like in 2008, however. Not sure where the experts stand on this one, but I think it's ok.
    *25% LT bonds: 100% TLT.

    I still have a variable portfolio which includes real estate, silver, dividend stocks, etc. I wanted dividend stocks to count as equities, but decided against that. Harry Browne and all the experts on crawlingroad seem to agree that it is unlikely a few equities will mimic the broad market.

    I treat the cash allocation as money available to buy whatever I'm interested in. IE: I want to buy more dividend producing stocks if the market melts down again. I'll buy more real estate if the price is right... If I were to empty the cash allocation into something I saw as a fantastic opportunity I would just rebalance the PP, shrinking it by whatever cash was used.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,290

    @KevinW - "The PP is outwardly simple but is based on a deep and nuanced understanding of macroeconomics, monetary policy, human nature, and political history." <---- This is why I like it. In principle the PP is just an asset allocation plan, but it's hard to imagine anything better than this. The only thing I haven't understood yet: Where are the commodities and where is the real estate. Why aren't they in there? It seems to me that those could be relevant in the notorious 5th case. The PP was construed in a world of US dominance and rising industrialism. I don't think we can count on either for the next 100 years.

    @JohnnyH - In terms of diversifying the cash allocation, doesn't that run counter to the point of having the cash position in "the world's reserve currency". In particular, what's relevant is how it responds to movements in gold and US long bonds.

    I'd imagine that the PP could be fully internationalized.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. JohnnyH

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    @jacob: yes, the reserve currency status of the USD is key to the cash position... Or maybe that only 1 economy is used. The exception being foreign equities, which tend to do what the US market is doing only more so.

    I think next rebalance (looks like I'll have to buy more stock soon) I will use future paychecks as part of the cash position and move the foreign currency to variable (or liquidate). I do not really like holding dollars.

    Ah, the accounting games I play with the PP to express my biases! :D

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. jennypenny

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 1,338

    > The PP was construed in a world of US dominance and rising industrialism. I don't think we can count on either for the next 100 years.

    This is one of my major concerns. Sometimes it sounds like curve-fitting.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. akratic

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 480

    Here's craigr's paraphrasing of Harry Browne's position on real estate (from the huge Bogleheads thread):

    Harry Browne didn't consider real estate specifically a good investment. He considered it a speculation. Moreover, he thought it straddled the stock/inflation protection part of the portfolio. Again, in his 1989 book if I recall he said if you wanted to use REITs it should come out of the stock and gold allocations to get your percentage. However, he always said that real estate can perform inconsistently based on the economy and is not an asset he considers particularly useful for the portfolio.

    If I remember correctly from the books, I think HB also viewed your personal residence strictly as a consumption item, not an investment.

    As for my own implementation of the PP, I'm keeping a REIT in my VP until I own my residence or a multi-unit.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. KevinW

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    In principle the PP is just an asset allocation plan, but it's hard to imagine anything better than this.

    Yes. Every other allocation I've seen reflects a preconceived notion about how the future will unfold. The most common preconceived notion is that the stock market gains of 20th century USA can be extrapolated out indefinitely. I believe this to be an instance of recency bias. Sustained prosperity like that is extremely rare in human history.

    The only thing I haven't understood yet: Where are the commodities and where is the real estate. Why aren't they in there?

    Essentially, gold does what they do, but better for PP purposes. Gold's role is to protect against (hyper)inflation, and under inflation you want hard assets with a tangible value that isn't directly linked to the stock or bond markets.

    Part of a commodity's value comes from its tangible hard asset nature, and part of it comes from its industrial utility as an input to production. An ideal commodity for the PP derives all its value from hard asset-ness and none from industrial utility, because industrial use means that a) the commodity's price is correlated to relevant stock prices, and b) producers are poised to ramp up production when prices rise, and consumers will make substitutions when prices fall, which dampens price movements.

    Gold has practically no industrial use (all I can think of is jewelry, dental fillings, and wiring for satellites). Other commodities have substantial industrial uses. As akratic said Browne didn't consider real estate an "investment," it's either a consumption item or a capital expenditure in a business. Also real estate prices are tied to interest rates.

    Browne's book "Inflation-Proofing Your Investments" ( http://www.amazon.com/Inflation-Proofing-Your-Investments-Permanent-Depression/dp/044690970X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312485354&sr=8-1 ) goes into this issue in some depth, including an analysis of why gold is superior to specific alternatives including silver and real estate.

    It seems to me that those could be relevant in the notorious 5th case. The PP was construed in a world of US dominance and rising industrialism. I don't think we can count on either for the next 100 years.

    Browne is careful about defining his terminology precisely. The PP is defined as an investment portfolio for growing monetary wealth conservatively. It takes a broader historical view than any other investing approach I know of, so there's a natural tendency to feature creep ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep ) into the realm of doomsday preparedness. But the PP is only about investing money now to have more money later.

    To the extent that a decline manifests itself as inflation, deflation, and recession, the PP should work. If money becomes useless the PP won't help you, but neither will index funds, the Dogs of the Dow, or any other security-based investment.

    the reserve currency status of the USD is key to the cash position... Or maybe that only 1 economy is used.

    There is some confusion on this point. Based on the references above, I believe that the important property is that all the securities (stocks, bonds, and cash) be bought from the same economy. The whole premise of the PP is that "the economy" is in one of four states. For it to function properly, the securities need to move relative to "the economy," for an identical definition of "the economy."

    Most of Browne's writing was targeted at US investors, so "the economy" is implicitly defined as USA. However his advice for foreign investors was to define "the economy" as their home country, and buy domestic stocks/bonds/cash denominated in their native currency. IIRC this was asked and answered on the radio show. E.g. a German investor would use a German stock index, German bonds, and a cash account denominated in DM.

    I've looked into defining "the economy" as the world and using global stocks/bonds/cash. My conclusion was that a global PP worked essentially the same as a domestic one, but with higher expenses and more complex tax accounting.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    So has anyone considered using leverage on a PP? All my searches for margin+pp and leverage+pp just come back with some tenet that you should not use leverage. However, interest rates can be very low (I think I've seen around 2% for the right dollar amounts). I wonder how well the stability of a PP portfolio can mitigate the inherent risks of leverage. I suppose this might be like trying to buy money market funds on margin -- i.e. you'll never come out ahead. What do you think?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,290

    @dragoncar - Take the cash position and invest it into the three others. You're now levered. Might as well borrow the money from yourself at 0%. Also, you no longer hold the PP---this situation is not stable to the recession scenario where cash would perform/provide stability.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    I don't think that's quite the same. If you started with 50k in cash, and used a real margin account you could have:

    20k in cash
    20k in gld (10k borrowed)
    20k in spy (10k borrowed)
    20k in tlt (10k borrowed)

    that's pretty different from:
    16.6k in gld
    16.6k in spy
    16.6k in tlt

    Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible since it's a bit late.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,290

    Try a less leveraged position

    16.6 cash
    16.6 bond (5.5 borrowed)
    16.6 stock (5.5 borrowed)
    16.6 gold (5.5 borrowed)

    Total contribution = 16.6+3*11.1 ~ 50

    Net position

    16.6 - 3*5.5 ~ 0 cash
    16.6 bond (5.5 borrowed)
    16.6 stock (5.5 borrowed)
    16.6 gold (5.5 borrowed)

    Your fully leveraged position is actually worse (more volatile) than this because it has a negative cash component.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. JohnnyH

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    Tempted to switch from 20% band rebalancing to 15% rebalancing... I am very close to needing to buy more equities, and don't want to. ;)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,290

    I think Harry Browne's book suggested a 15-35% band, so according to gospel ...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    Funny how PP people don't want to buy equities. I didn't want to sell my equities when I moved into PP (it feels like I'm buying high and selling low)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    More questions:

    1) It seems one weakness of the PP is tax efficiency when re-balancing. This may not be relevant to some people here, but one advantage of a single-asset buy-and-hold is that someone with a long time horizon will have "tax deferred" growth. Does anyone know if the PP has been backtested including taxes paid when rebalancing? How did it do? I know rebalancing is supposed to be rare, but if the next few years are more volatile, then rebalancing may occur more frequently.

    2) One of the reasons I wouldn't do Dogs of the Dow is that the strategy is so well known, I can't imagine that any potential gains won't be negated through arbitrage. Is the PP susceptible to this? The more popular PP gets, the less the four asset classes will tend to diverge. Don't the gains of PP depend on rebalancing of diverging asset classes? What happens if everyone subscribes to PP and the asset classes stop diverging? I.e. gold never diverges from stocks by 10% because people with PP sell gold and buy stock (or vice versa). So some people lower their bands to 5%. As more people do this, 5% won't happen, so people lower it to 2%, etc. I'm not saying this would happen, but I think you can see my point as to how more people using the strategy can reduce returns (PRPFX is currently 1/5 the size of SPY).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. Chad

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 999

    I personally don't like one strategy or approach, as it is very limiting and is only "correct" a very small percentage of the time. There is no one right way, so I use all of them when they are applicable.

    Also, only having one strategy makes you miss opportunities like the Dow dropping to 6,500 2 years ago. At that point it was obvious you should be all in on equities, as everything was going to zero (stocks, currency, real estate, etc.) or it was going to at least come back up to 9-10,000 in a year or two.

    Dragoncar brings up two very large negatives for PP. Personally, I think #2 is the bigger issue.

    I would add another negative to PP. It does not encourage analysis of specific companies and relies on asset allocation alone to be successful. That's like playing football and only running the ball on offense. You should use all your weapons/assets.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. tjt

    Journeyman
    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 127

    I wouldn't worry about #2 because PP is never going to get that popular. DOTD is attractive because it sounds safe, yet is still in equities which people consider aggressive.

    25% in stocks and the rest in boring, "safe" things like cash, bonds, and gold? That doesn't sound sexy at all. People want sexy.

    As for your point about the Dow at 6500 creating an obvious strategy to be all in on stocks, it wasn't so obvious to me. At it's lowest point, the S&P500 P/E hit 15 - that's not that low (yet it's still lower than we are now)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. George the original one

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,938

    PEs were at 15, which isn't quite so obvious, but if you looked at the E of many companies, you would see that there were lots of one-time expenses holding back the earnings. Back out the one-time expenses and E started looking pretty decent; then the only questions were whether sales would hold up or if the company had debts that were going to swallow it.

    The Retire Early home page created a proxy for the PP from Vanguard funds (I think it was) and that's certainly performed well for the past two decades. I, personally, am not endeared towards the PP, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
    http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/reallife11.html

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    In theory, it would have been great to go 100% equities in march 2009. In practice, I was in cash (having correctly predicted the decline) and missed a large portion of upward movement. Part of this may have been that I wasn't paying attention anymore, and was busy with other things. But the fact remains that, personally, I haven't demonstrated an ability to correctly time market highs and lows. Maybe I'll get better at this with practice in a variable portfolio, but until then I'm not going to bet it all on my track record.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Maus

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 504

    I am trying not to catch a flying knife, but the VIX is making me possitively giddy to buy for my taxable dividend portfolio.

    But I wanted to comment on the PP because I created a subportfolio in December 2010 with $40K divided 25% x 4 between VTI/IAU/BLV/BSV. It is up 7.28% for the year.

    Compare that to my Dogs of the Dow subportfolio, down 4.93%; my taxable dividend account, up 1.83%; my Roth IRA (a mix of sector ETFs with heavy emphasis on commodities and REITs), down 0.77%; and finally, my 401(k) -- 100% in VTSMX -- down 8.8%.

    I am becoming a convert to the PP, with perhaps a VP of 20% in 10 dividend performers. I am getting too close to the day when I must draw down on the income stream to stomach the kind of volatility we had in 2008.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. Chad

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 999

    At 6,500 the P/E's really didn't matter, as moves like that distort all the metrics. Plus, P/E is only one piece of information and not always the best piece. What mattered at the time was that there were only two real options for the market. The market was either going to zero, which meant it wouldn't have mattered where your money was, or it was going to have a nice comeback at some point, even if it fell for a little longer. Since not investing didn't lower your risk the only option was to invest. Obviously, I'm simplifying it a little.

    Sorry, got off topic a little. Though, I wouldn't do PP personally, as I don't like being restricted to one set of rules when you can use all of them, there are worse strategies. One of them being buying and holding index funds indefinitely.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. KevinW

    Master
    Joined: Aug '10
    Posts: 576

    What happens if everyone subscribes to PP and the asset classes stop diverging?

    As a practical matter I don't think this will ever happen so it's probably not worth worrying about. It's pretty much impossible to get everyone to agree to do anything. Consider that it's eminently clear that smoking and credit card debt are bad, and yet both are still popular.

    If, hypothetically, the PP somehow became the most popular asset allocation in the world, then the four assets would be much less volatile and rebalancing events would almost never happen. The rebalance bonus, which accounts for 1-2% of the portfolio's 9%-ish returns, would disappear. But stock, bonds, and cash would continue to post positive returns; very consistent, smooth returns since the assets wouldn't be volatile anymore.

    Though, I wouldn't do PP personally, as I don't like being restricted to one set of rules when you can use all of them, there are worse strategies.

    Investing is one area of life where it's easy to live and let live. You can do things your way and it has very little impact on my ability to do things my way.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Surio

    Sorcerer
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 601

    I am very pleased that people are finally bringing up the
    "What if everyone did it too?"
    about PP! Honestly, I was waiting for how long before the question did come up though ;-).

    This eventually boils down to the same pattern of "What if everyone adopted ERE?" questioning that everyone seems so keen to raise here. While a definitive answer is not possible about the the consequences of large scale PP adoption, my own guess would be the same as that of ERE living. Life would be much more simpler, as seeking alpha (the present dominant worldview) won't be the dominant thing on everyone's mind. YoY 7%+ growth won't be the mantra then....

    Volatility would cease to be an issue and bonds and bullion would be the most interesting asset class to hold. Aside, Joe Dominguez seemed to do OK with just bonds in his portfolio through the stagflation era!

    The equities class won't be an advantage area, and neither would holding solid cash. Inflation won't be such a large worry anymore and bond returns would be stable enough to provide passive income.

    But still looking at this very broad(ish) trends that come about due to PP, it begs the larger question to the forum, wouldn't it actually be better for the World, if everyone did follow the PP pattern of investing?

    @chad,
    "One of them being buying and holding index funds indefinitely."
    ---- Touche! Ha Ha!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. JohnnyH

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    Getting ready to rebalance and was having some thoughts and questions.

    Q: In my 403b retirement I have an SP500 option (good expense ratio/dividend, similar to all the ETFs) and a cash option with an excellent 2.9% rate... There are no capital gains in the 403, so I'm thinking about going all in on SP500 with this capital. What would you all do, stick with the good cash rate, or take a chance that SP500 going up will provide a tax advantage?

    T: I've decided to include my estimated next 6 months of FT job wage savings into the cash component... I feel it helps alleviate some of the risk involved with being paid in USD. Also, it helps increase my margin utilization.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    Standard advice is to put the following in tax-advantaged accounts (in order of priority):

    Bonds, Cash, Stocks, Gold

    This is probably more geared to those in a higher tax bracket, though. Obviously, if you are in a 0% income tax bracket, you should hold your cash in taxable.

    I, personally, think it might make sense for gold to be tax-advantaged, given the potential 28% capital gains rate. I'm not looking forward to rebalancing gold if it keeps going up.

    Everyone's tax situation is different, so the above is really just a guide. Consider the following questions:

    What's your tax rate on capital gains? (If low, not that bad to keep equities in taxable)

    What's your tax rate on dividends? (same)

    What's your tax rate on interest income? (see above re: cash)

    What's your timeframe? (I've heard that over longer periods it starts to make sense to hold equities in tax-advantaged, but don't really remember why)

    Are you accumulating? (If accumulating, you may not have to sell anything to re balance, so don't worry AS MUCH about capital gains)

    Where do you think tax rates are headed? (If you think capital gains will go up, lean more towards stocks in 403b, for example)

    Sorry I don't have good answers, just more questions... it seems like choosing a taxable/advantaged allocation requires some foresight!

    Personally, I'd probably put the cash in there, as long as it is easy enough to get back out (selling something in taxable and buying in 403b -- this essentially moves the cash out, but may incur capital gains tax)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. JohnnyH

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,363

    Good info dragon. What's going into my thought process in this case is as follows:

    My accumulation has slowed, odds are decent I will have to sell something my next rebalance.

    My 403b is post tax, so I won't have to pay taxes on it in the future... Any gains and losses are not reported. Does this flip my priority to gold, stocks, cash, bonds? Seems like I want something with growth potential. OTOH, this also means no capital loss claims, either.

    Aside from that, the bond choices are inferior to ETF choices, and there are no gold choices... The SP500 fund is acceptably similar to ETF offerings. The cash fund pays 2.9%, which is quite good.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,290

    For my situation

    (tax-deferred) gold(29%), bonds(15%), equity(0%), cash(15% on the few bucks of interest it yields) (taxable)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. Maus

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 504

    @Jacob
    Do I understand your post to mean you have sold out of your dividend stocks and REITs? I cannot quite understand your last post because the list doesn't total to 100%. Or is this just your tax-deferred and the remaining 41% is not?

    @dragoncar
    I think one way to handle the gold in PP to avoid the 28% capital gains at rebalancing is to hold 20% of gold as IAU in a Roth IRA and 80% physical. If you reach 35% in gold and must rebalance, sell IAU down within Roth without tax consequences.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    For Jacob, I think he's listing his marginal tax rate.

    Except gold shouldn't be 29% because it's the LESSER of 28% and your marginal income tax rate. (see http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch16.html)

    It appears he's in the 15% marginal income tax rate -> 0% long term capital gains rate (for now)

    Maus:

    I've thought of this... to some degree, I feel like I've made my bed. I've got bonds and stock in my IRA and cash and gold outside. If I move gold to the IRA, I'll have to sell at a gain. Maybe I should just wait until the gold bubble pops and then move it over? There may be some sophisticated wash-sale form I can fill out to not pay capital gains on a sale that I subsequently repurchase in my IRA, but I doubt it.

    Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.