Early Retirement Extreme Forums » Introduce Yourself

Give advice you wish you knew yourself

(40 posts)
  1. RMcD94

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 17

    So, hey, now and again I see posts (not necessarily here) that go along the lines of "If only I had known that when I was younger" or "If I could tell myself one thing ten years ago it wouldn't have been to do X", etc, etc. Well, today, I give you the people of ERE Forums the opportunity to do so.

    Just some information about myself: I live in the United Kingdom (Ayrshire, Scotland) so some advice might not be appropriate (for example our University is free). It's currently the summer holidays before the last year of school and I'm going to be honest I'm not positive what I'm doing after it, but I am a very frugal person and after reading up on this ERE thing it certainly appeals to me a lot. Now I might change my mind later on, but I can't imagine much harm can come from money.

    So what lifestyle changes would you recommend, what kind of documents should I start keeping, what should I begin to read up on (stocks I've seen mentioned a lot)? If you have any further questions I'll do my best to answer them. I hope I'm putting this in the right forum to get the best responses.

    Short version: If you could speak to your younger self what advice would you have told them?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,297

  3. mikeBOS

    Master
    Joined: Nov '10
    Posts: 554

    I'd say, "You know all that advice you get from old people that you suspect is wrong? It is."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Sree

    Apprentice
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 43

    If I were to give advice to my 10- years younger self , I would say:
    1. Don't buy that condo - rent instead. House values are not always going to rise.
    2. Don't buy all those clothes. Better to buy higher quality, fewer clothes. You'll get rid of the bad ones anyways. Figure out a uniform. KISS.
    3. Diversify your investments early on. Don't rely on large cap stocks only. Get help from a financial advisor if you don't know.
    4. Cut out as many monthly bills as possible.
    5. Dont waste money on eating out. You can learn to make better food then they can.
    6. Plan your savings with a goal of ERE after 10 years of working. You can do it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Chad

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,001

    Don't get an accounting degree.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Redsted1

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 79

    -Work for yourself--you'll never have a bad boss. :)

    -Always DIY in every way you can in life (personal, business, etc.). Labor will kill your funds fast! It's always going to double the cost of something or more.

    -If you can avoid a car period, go for it. If you absolutely need one, buy something old and dependable that is useful.

    -Take care of yourself. My friends always tell me I'm "skinny"...sorry, actually you're fat, get it right.

    -Renting > Buying, in most "non-ERE" terms. Don't get too sexy with your living situation and you'll almost always be guaranteed to have an easy time saving money.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. m741

    Master
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 733

    - Tracking your expenses will cause dramatic changes in your spending habits.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. C40

    Master
    Joined: Feb '11
    Posts: 573

    - Remember to live well below your means. (I seem to have forgotten for a few years what I had decided to do right out of college)

    - Don't mess around with a couple of those girls. Pursue the ones you know you want more aggressively.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. George the original one

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,938

    A stock that yields "only" 3% is a better purchase than you realize if it's increasing that dividend by significantly more than inflation each year.

    Use stop losses to get out of investments turning sour.

    Saving 10% of income does not allow you to retire early unless you get lucky... learn the ERE numbers by heart and aim higher.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. HSpencer

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 770

    All of the above, plus live every minute as if it were your last one.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. RMcD94

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 17

    This is some varied, and interesting advice guys. I'll definitely take them into consideration. Keep it coming!

    [BLOCKQUOTE]Saving 10% of income does not allow you to retire early unless you get lucky... learn the ERE numbers by heart and aim higher.[/BLOCKQUOTE]

    What are the exact figures?

    Also, what websites should I join, for example freecycle and that book sharing one (whose name slips my mind)?

    And "live every minute like your last", screaming my head off? :P

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. DVDend

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 87

    @RMcD94: Here is a spreadsheet that can be useful for figuring the relationship between savings rate vs. savings time:

    https://spreadsheets1.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlyBMfBlh5aodEgyVjNaT0UtNkdyMVZqc2YtV0tXamc&hl=en_US#gid=0

    (Use save as to make a copy to modify numbers to match your case)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. webberchoked

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 36

    how is living every minute as if it were your last ever good advice? this would always result in blowing every cent you have since you're dead soon.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Wes

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 17

    Don't waste your time worrying about what other people think.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. dragoncar

    Expert
    Joined: Oct '10
    Posts: 1,287

    Too bad a lot of this is specific to the advice giver's personality (e.g. tracking my expenses has given me insights, but has not dramatically changed my spending habits).

    I agree that, on it's face, "live every moment as if it were your last" is foolhardy. We EREers tend to have a longer view than that. However, the spirit of the saying is appreciated. Perhaps "live every moment with purpose" is more apt. I've got to work on that one.

    What advice would I give myself? Maybe I should have done cost-benefit analysis of my chosen college and major. Still, I'm surprised my parents didn't advocate a more practical approach to the post-secondary world. Maybe it's one of those cyclical parenting things (i.e. their parents were overly practical).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Chad

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 1,001

    The cost benefit analysis of college is a really good one. I didn't have to do it as I played football, but there are still good schools that won't bury you with debt.

    I would also tell myself, "You don't need others to respect your profession...only you."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Shandi76

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 111

    Hi RMcD94. I'm also from Scotland :-)

    To give useful advice it would be helpful to know a bit more about you. What Highers are you doing at school? Are you planning on going to University? What kind of career are you interested in? Are you prepared to leave Scotland, at least temporarily, for career opportunities and wealth-building?

    If I could go back to your age I would do some things differently. Back then I believed in 'education for the sake of education', rather than worrying about what was best from an income maximization point of view.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. M

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '10
    Posts: 164

    Life isn't all about being successful, achieving your goals, and accomplishing your dreams. Life is short. Relax. Have a beer. Don't worry about tomorrow. Try to enjoy today instead.

    Go to all the dances in Junior high and High school. Take the lead. Don't be afraid to ask the pretty girls to dance. Have sex. Party. Meet new people. Have fun with life.

    Try. Fail. Get back up and try again. Don't ever waste your time doing something that you regret. Run away from angry people. Don't give in. Stand your ground.

    Don't spend your life trying to keep other people happy. You're not responsible for the happiness of others. They are. Everyone has free will. If they want to bathe in misery, they can - there's nothing you can do about it but weep and be miserable yourself. Let them go. They've made their decision. Now it's time for you to make yours.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Hoplite

    Master
    Joined: Dec '10
    Posts: 489

    Jacob's advice is a good general foundation for life.

    MikeBOS is right, except that I would include young people as well (i.e., your peers). They really don't know.

    Now my own advice to me which you can freely ignore :)

    1. If you're going to fall, fall forward. Don't pay for the same ground twice.

    2. Don't stay longer at something than is good for you. Inertia is deceptive, especially if you're in motion.

    3. Comfort is a trap.

    4. A metaphor, to be construed and applied as liberally as possible:

    Never wrestle with a pig. You have to get down on his level and you will get covered with filth.

    And the pig likes it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. dot_com_vet

    Master
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 376

    If you're lucky enough to have a close family, don't move away for a career.

    Discussed at a recent family reunion. Most of us moved out of state/country in our 20's.

    At the end of the day, family is everything.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. Chris L

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '10
    Posts: 150

    Start early, really early as you successes will compound dramatically and it takes a long while before you'll see any headway.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. jacob

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 3,297

    Corollary to Chris L - Front-load your effort. Be intense early on and you'll reach your goal significantly faster than if you baby-step or back-load your input.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. djc

    Journeyman
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 126

    -Don't strive so hard to be successful.

    -The twenties are the most important decade financially speaking.

    -Don't equate your success in life with your job.

    -Don't be afraid to take a nap.

    -Don't do stupid cruises and Disney vacations.

    -Don't stay in a career that you hate, except for a set period of time to achieve your goals.

    -Don't compare yourself to others.

    djc

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. Chris L

    Journeyman
    Joined: Sep '10
    Posts: 150

    Don't do things just because other people do them. Many (most) people do really dumb and irrational things frequently.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. jennypenny

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 1,338

    With all due respect to everyone who's posted, I'd say don't listen to anyone else. Learn all you can. Think for yourself. Define your own success.

    I do agree with "start early" but I'm always hesitant to give that advice. If someone is 30 or 40, telling them to start early is discouraging. Instead I advise people to "start now."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. Beaudacious

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 56

    Be you. And stick to your guns.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. rtw

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 4

    the longer you do something, the better and more efficient you get at it.

    You will fail at things, it's part of the process. You rarely do it perfectly the first time.

    you have one go around at this life, squeeze as much out of it as possible. So do what is important to you.

    alway consider the other side. You often get a view you never thought of.

    Question your assumptions. You can do anything if you believe you can, but be careful of your own mental obstacles you put up with out even knowing it. (ERE made me question my assumptions and mental obstacles).

    Ask questions. You never know when a person has information they will share that will change either how you do something, what you do, or it may just change your life.

    Learn from others, don't reinvent the wheel.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. Mater

    Apprentice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 33

    Wake up every morning and look in the mirror and ask yourself-am I happy doing/living the way I am. If the answer is no more than 5 days in a row-make a change.

    KISS. Keep It Simple Stoopid! The best things in life really are free. Friendship, Laughter, Long Walks outside with your dog, holding your wife's hand. These are the things that will energize/restore your soul.

    Never pass up the opportunity to make a friend-no matter who they are.

    Finally-go for it, and if/when you fail, pick yourself up and press on again, with equal enthusiasm. Never give up.

    Blue Skies-Mater

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. The Dude

    Master
    Joined: Jul '10
    Posts: 392

    You may like this thread:

    http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/topic.php?id=188#post-1865

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. jennypenny

    Expert
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 1,338

    @Dude--thanks for that post. It was a good read.

    We newtimers must drive some of you oldtimers nuts when we ask questions that have been discussed several times. Thanks for indulging us.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. RMcD94

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 17

    Must apologize for the late reply to this thread.

    "To give useful advice it would be helpful to know a bit more about you. What Highers are you doing at school? Are you planning on going to University? What kind of career are you interested in? Are you prepared to leave Scotland, at least temporarily, for career opportunities and wealth-building?"

    I did English (A), Maths (A), Biology (B), Chemistry (A) and Physics (A). And this year I'm doing Advanced Higher Bio, AH Chem and AH Maths, though I'd prefer to do AH Physics over Bio if I can (which can't be done without going to another school for the class).

    As for University, I don't really have any interest in going to it, it doesn't appeal to me and I don't think I'd do well. I wouldn't mind leaving Scotland at all. As for careers, I'm open at the moment, I really don't have much idea.

    Now for the rest of the thread, I'm going to read that other linked one after this post. I've started recording how much I spend, and what I spend it on, though of course my sole income is what my Mum decides to give me (based of my chores).

    What would you suggest I do in starting now, jennypenny? Like, what should be the first thing I do?

    I've been trying to work out how much I cost just right now, but it's pretty difficult. I mean, obviously I don't pay rent or anything. I don't think my food expenditure is over the top, and I don't often go out and splash cash (not very fun for me).

    Time to read the other thread now!

    Edit: One thing I have been curious at for a while now, is how much those who have completed ERE live on. I understand that it's different for everyone but a general number would be pretty good.

    Edit: That was a great thread, lots of the advice I felt applied to me, and I took a lot away from it. One thing though: "Don't argue on the internet", ah but it's so fun!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. m741

    Master
    Joined: Jan '11
    Posts: 733

    It's probably a good idea to get in a habit of tracking expenses, but don't worry about rent, etc. If you want to get an idea of what it would be, look on Craigslist for 1br apartments, or apartments with roommates in your area. Ask your parents how much they pay for utilities and then adjust based on size of house.

    As for the number: Jacob says that he lives on $500-600/month, which is 150k-180k saved. That's the low end. My number (much less extreme) is probably between 500k-600k, translating to $1700/month. This is based on 7 months of tracking, I'm not retired yet. I'd feel more comfortable at the upper end, so if I had 600k in the bank I'd strongly consider ERE. My expenses are pretty typical here, except rent is quite high in my area. If I was living in a cheaper place I could probably pull $1200/month, which translates to $360k saved.

    If you're still curious, look in the journals. People post monthly expenses. Just multiply those by 12 and divide by .04 to get total savings necessary at a 4% rate of return.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. RMcD94

    Novice
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 17

    "Ask your parents how much they pay for utilities and then adjust based on size of house."

    I will find this out tonight, I have always been interested in the bills and such, but my Mum isn't so keen to tell me for some reason, she's relenting though.

    "
    As for the number: Jacob says that he lives on $500-600/month, which is 150k-180k saved. That's the low end. My number (much less extreme) is probably between 500k-600k, translating to $1700/month"

    Average salary here in the UK is $44k. So assuming I spend no money at all I'd have to work for ~4 years to get that, and to get high end it would be 12 years of working, obviously not taking into account interest or expenditure.

    http://earlyretirementextreme.com/my-list-of-financial-freedom-books.html

    I was looking at that this list, I was thinking of reading some of that stuff, because I'm pretty new to basically everything, and ignorant of a whole lot more.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. Dum spiro spero

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 16

    Hi RMcD94 - you inspired me to come out of lurking as I'm possibly your nearest ERE neighbour (I'm in Glasgow) and at 28, I'm just about young enough to remember school ;)

    I like your enthusiasm, but I would advise caution on your expectations. $1700/£1062 a month is very high, well beyond the usual ERE range in my opinion. My basic expenses (i.e. rent, tax, utilities and food) in a nice suburb of Glasgow are £550/mth if I cut back to the bone). The rent and bills are split with my fiancee, but I could keep them at this level by renting a bedsit etc. if I was single. ERE strikes me as a combination of low expenses, voluntary simplicity and high assets to have the time to do what you want to do. It's not about supporting a middle class lifestyle as if by magic!

    Also, unless I'm doing the maths wrong, your 'number' would be £420,552 assuming a safe withdrawal rate of 3% (£1062*12*33). This equates to roughly $675,000 for all you lovely Americans.

    Average salary in the *UK* is lower than you think (£24,024 in June 2011 (roughly $38,438). I got this from the Office of National Statistic's Labour market statistical bulletin. The median figure is probably more accurate (we're not all software developers and fund managers) and this figure was £21,221 ($33,953) for *2010* (see ONS' ASHE (Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings) for 2010. As well as that, average earnings in Scotland are lower again, as the UK figure includes London etc.

    Assuming you can get a job that pays the average wage, you will take home roughly £18,467 after tax and NI. With a 75% savings rate it will take you 30 years to reach your target. Of course you will get pay rises over time, but getting a job that pays even the average will take a lot of work. There are relatively few careers that will take someone straight out of school and pay them £24k. It took me until I was 24 to earn this and while I'm not a crazy motivated genius, I have good qualifications, a good CV and not the worst career history ever.

    Some things to consider: if you're serious about ERE, start planning now. If you don't want to go to uni (arguably the easiest way/a prerequisite to getting into a highly paid salaried job for most professions in the UK), you will need to find a well paid skilled/non academic post (no slight to any careers, we all do different things for a living!) The sorts of things to consider looking at your studies to date might include engineering type jobs/subjects (for example, Scotland still has a good amount of offshore posts in oil/gas extraction and increasingly, renewable technologies). If I were you (and these sorts of jobs appeal), I'd start researching apprenticeships with some of the larger firms and pestering your school careers advisor for information.

    On the other hand, if you do go to uni, there's nothing to stop you applying for student loans, investing these to kick-start your ERE progress and working hard to get summer placements etc. as you study.

    Whatever you decide, best of luck - great to see someone considering the alternatives to a traditional career route so young!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. Dum spiro spero

    Novice
    Joined: Aug '11
    Posts: 16

    Ps. It would actually take you less than 30 years to reach your target, as I've not allowed for interest/growth etc.

    Regardless, on the average salary you'd need to live on something like £4,500 to maintain a 75% savings rate.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. LiquidSapphire

    Master
    Joined: Jul '11
    Posts: 434

    Track all of your expenses and put a decent amount of what's left over into retirement accounts and savings account. Just because you're saving 20% does NOT mean you're doing awesome. 80%-90% is awesome. I could be retired right now.

    Roth IRAs are awesome; I should have used one starting with my first crappy summer job in high school.

    Marriage is not really supposed to be "hard work". It's work, but work like working on your favorite hobby is work. If you think to yourself "this is the hardest thing I've ever done" or "Is it really supposed to be this hard?" Think long and hard on if that person is really right for you.

    Don't do anything if your only reason is based on fear.

    I've personally decided that most other people are stupid and I am perfectly capable of thinking through consequences and making my own decisions, thank you very much. Don't follow the crowd. Think for yourself and decide for yourself. If you don't have an example, go look for one, or just be your own example.

    And don't be afraid to cut toxic people out of your life, even if you have a long history with them. If there is no point in having them in your life, don't. There's no point in keeping an old friend just because they're an old friend, if they're not really a friend.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. Skinnyneo

    Apprentice
    Joined: Oct '11
    Posts: 33

    A dollar is not a dollar it is an employee. Try not to fire too many of them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. riparian

    Master
    Joined: Oct '11
    Posts: 341

    College is probably pointless and expensive.

    Understand the premises involved in every theory you consider. Never forget that most realities are socially constructed.

    Never do something you don't want to do, ever. Life's too short to spend it killing your soul.

    Make every moment beautiful and appreciate the fuck out of it.

    Give every single person you meet a reason to remember and like you. This will take you so far.

    Cut out abusive people with a vengeance and then don't give them a second thought.

    No point in arguing with most people. Nod, smile, "you could be right about that."

    Live free or die. :)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. aussierogue

    Master
    Joined: Nov '11
    Posts: 341

    There is only one biggie for me

    Find out who you are as soon as possible.

    Do a myers Briggs test as early as possible and "accept the result".

    I for one refused to accept what my vocational testers told me at high school. I wernt to one of the leading schools in Australia and to be told at 15 i should be a teacher, philosopher, nurse, writer, journalist was the last thing my competative nature wanted to hear.

    I like my mates wanted to be "successful" and that meant status university entry into high income jobs like finance, law and medicine. What there isn't at the end of a myers briggs test is a disclaimer that states "failure to live authentically means unhappiness and inability to be oneself under all circumstances". This scenario is hell......despite making a high income.

    I guess in someways this is a very middle class idea....many people dont have the luxury to chose vocations, or to strive for hapiness. I get that. But i do and i am gonna make the most of it

    cheers
    aussie

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. web_diva

    Novice
    Joined: Dec '11
    Posts: 28

    + Choose not to struggle. Look at occupational outlook trends & salaries when choosing a career - STEM (science, technology, engg, math) is big for decades. If cannot cut those fields, college may not mean much of an earnings advantage relative to the time and money expended. Consider skipping college & doing blue collar laborer work - salaries are high, unlikely to be outsourced, nice pensions (gas, electrician, plumber, phone line worker, etc)
    + Do the future value of money calculation (basic finance) to motivate you to find alternatives to big expenses. (loved the luxury car, but would have rather had the $100K+ by the time i am 60!)
    + If raises and retirement pkg are not stellar where you are, ditch & switch jobs every few years to get the big bumps in pay. if you are vested at 5 years, work 5 then go. Be choosy about next job and make the switch COUNT. (works best when in 20s and 30s) Try to apply for jobs 1-2 levels above your current level and start looking long before you really want/need to leave.
    + specializing can be more lucrative than being a generalist in your career
    + Make career networking a key and regular part of your day. The efficient and effective quiet-as-a-mouse worker can get overlooked in raises, promotions, and big opportunities. Mentor and be mentored.
    + Work in a role where you have room to grow. This may mean slightly higher stress for a time until you adapt. You will grow as a person and in your skills in your field.
    + One can say anything to anyone if it is done in the right way (see book "Crucial Conversations"). Work this to your advantage to build strong relationships with open communication at work and at home
    + Many businesses do not outpace the return of a well-purchased leveraged residential or commercial rental property in a nice neighborhood kept for the long term
    + Pay close attention to property taxes when buying real estate. They can skyrocket, decreasing affordability, and homes can be difficult to sell quickly

    Posted 1 year ago #

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